RE: Steem Improvement Proposal: Allow STEEM donations to the DAO by azircon

Viewing a response to: @smooth/q4jqgy

steem · @azircon · Jan 24 '20 (edited)

@smooth, can you think of something about SBD potatoes and burnpost littering the trending. I am a supporter of the intent and the math behind the project. But even at $25 cap, it is still on trending. What can we do?

Also does the curation for these post goes to curators? If yes, then that is not burned/converted. Therefore the posts become easy target for the optimizers and optimizing bots trying to maximize curation reward. Now I can be completely off the rail on this, and in that case I apologize. Just trying to educate myself on this.

👍 smooth
👎 flysky

`post_id`	83,733,377
`author`	azircon
`permlink`	q4m85j
`category`	steem
`json_metadata`	{"users":["smooth"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2020-01-24 14:27:18
`last_update`	2020-01-24 14:27:30
`depth`	3
`children`	11
`net_rshares`	22,160,007,030
`last_payout`	2020-01-31 14:27:18
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	546
`author_reputation`	79,432,823,472,427
`root_title`	"Steem Improvement Proposal: Allow STEEM donations to the DAO"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
smooth	0 B		1,185,341,415,008	3%
flysky	0 B		-1,163,181,407,978	-19%

@smooth · Jan 24 '20

I've been thinking about what to do about these but I don't have any great answers beyond what is being done.

I do think the $25 cap is too high. Even without any overvoting, $25 will show up pretty high on trending some days. I would reduce it to $5 or $10 and make more posts per day.

Ultimately a big part of the issue here is that Trending is misnamed. It should really be called "Most Voted" in which case no one would be surprised that these show up, right?

As for curation, the curation algorithm is designed to address this automatically. Repeated high value posts that get high votes (whether it is these or just a consistently popular author) will attract earlier and earlier votes which return more of their Trending rewards to the reward pool. Burnpost gets most of its votes between 1 and 3 minutes which means 40-80% of curation is returned to the reward. Voters get _something_, which is fair IMO because they are consuming their valuable vote power, but they don't get anywhere near as much as they would get doing actual curation (more effort).

properties (22)

`post_id`	83,744,362
`author`	smooth
`permlink`	q4mnsm
`category`	steem
`json_metadata`	{"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2020-01-24 20:05:21
`last_update`	2020-01-24 20:05:21
`depth`	4
`children`	10
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2020-01-31 20:05:21
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	1,064
`author_reputation`	119,002,354,889,508
`root_title`	"Steem Improvement Proposal: Allow STEEM donations to the DAO"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@azircon · Jan 24 '20

What about posting them with a “invisible” tag. I single special tag. Will they still show up on trending? I guess so...

👍 smooth
👎 flysky

`post_id`	83,745,422
`author`	azircon
`permlink`	q4mqcy
`category`	steem
`json_metadata`	{"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2020-01-24 21:00:33
`last_update`	2020-01-24 21:00:33
`depth`	5
`children`	9
`net_rshares`	39,852,283,602
`last_payout`	2020-01-31 21:00:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	120
`author_reputation`	79,432,823,472,427
`root_title`	"Steem Improvement Proposal: Allow STEEM donations to the DAO"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
smooth	0 B		328,268,566,929	1%
flysky	0 B		-288,416,283,327	-5%

@smooth · Jan 25 '20 (edited)

It was my recollection that the 'experimental' tag used to do that in the early days of Steem. That was the reason I originally used it for burnpost. It seems, though, that posts tagged experimental now do show up, possibly because milkers were using it to hide from downvotes. Same with comments.

It is a tricky problem in an open system when any feature which can be used for good can also be abused for harm.

properties (22)

`post_id`	83,754,730
`author`	smooth
`permlink`	q4nj4e
`category`	steem
`json_metadata`	{"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2020-01-25 07:21:54
`last_update`	2020-01-25 07:22:54
`depth`	6
`children`	8
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2020-02-01 07:21:54
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	412
`author_reputation`	119,002,354,889,508
`root_title`	"Steem Improvement Proposal: Allow STEEM donations to the DAO"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

8 replies