RE: Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1) by beanz

Viewing a response to: @craig-grant/re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170102t122018216z

steemvoter · @beanz · Jan 2 '17 (edited)

$0.08

People need to realise that this is an upvote downvote system.. A flag is not an attack, it's a downvote. The $90 cost of a steemvoter post isn't charged to the users of that service is charged to the community instead.

The users should be paying.  I haven't flagged this post as I can see that they are moving in that direction with the "premium service" charge.  That does not mean I won't downvote tomorrows post.  We are gradually learning that this an unsustainable model.

If the pool is constantly funding projects that only a small group of the community benefit from, then anybody who doesn't benefit from the service can downvote the "funding posts" and this leads to the service not being funded.  If they weren't downvoted due to the stigma arising from this false claim of 
"attack" then eventually with more and more of these services seeking funding from the reward pool there would be no authors left to make use of the services.

The users need to be the ones paying for the service.  Charges for premium services only will not be enough.  Those who have downvoted this post are not attacking anybody.  It is far more violent to shame somebody for how they vote.

👍 demotruk, xeroc, rossco99, boatymcboatface, clayop, winstonwolfe, blakemiles84, berkah, whatsup, beanz, jaewoocho, technology, pairmike, tracemayer, albertogm, skapaneas, l0k1, seth-krings, michaelx, phenom, ballinconscious, arisa, warrensteem, auction, raymondspeaks, nulliusinverba, jayfox, ianboil, marialin, cmorton, cryptojoy.com, garvofe, steemradio, virtualgrowth, bigsambucca, appz, tamersameeh, araki

`post_id`	1,670,012
`author`	beanz
`permlink`	re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170102t173123008z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-02 17:31:27
`last_update`	2017-01-02 17:38:03
`depth`	2
`children`	15
`net_rshares`	1,993,636,962,718
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.066 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.018 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	1,180
`author_reputation`	68,303,733,730,210
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (38)

voter	rshares	pct
berkah	45,138,835,116	100%
rossco99	222,309,348,347	100%
jaewoocho	33,824,631,783	1%
xeroc	382,485,452,949	100%
clayop	111,777,456,731	1%
boatymcboatface	142,804,263,607	100%
pairmike	24,841,348,202	100%
blakemiles84	76,851,731,710	100%
arisa	5,312,278,142	100%
michaelx	7,779,459,057	100%
albertogm	10,954,686,510	100%
seth-krings	9,465,251,218	100%
technology	28,998,720,332	100%
skapaneas	10,098,439,597	100%
auction	4,434,945,723	100%
raymondspeaks	3,241,381,668	100%
demotruk	617,438,801,327	100%
warrensteem	5,035,125,220	30%
cryptojoy.com	951,917,659	100%
phenom	7,282,306,467	100%
winstonwolfe	80,788,541,838	100%
beanz	39,208,304,518	100%
bigsambucca	525,440,847	100%
steemradio	852,213,984	100%
cmorton	1,269,529,744	100%
virtualgrowth	625,256,965	1%
jayfox	1,857,856,060	100%
nulliusinverba	2,472,384,331	100%
l0k1	10,074,940,010	30%
tracemayer	13,119,453,255	100%
ballinconscious	6,276,974,004	100%
whatsup	42,852,832,724	100%
marialin	1,798,282,363	100%
ianboil	1,801,300,985	100%
garvofe	934,839,764	40%
araki	199,226,876	1%
appz	324,753,620	100%
tamersameeh	288,503,507	100%

@craig-grant · Jan 2 '17 (edited)

the authors who get votes from the steemvoter service is not a small group, it's a very large group, the last time steemvoter went offline for a few days the authors felt the pain more than the voters

👍 steemvoter, remlaps, spaninv, paco-steem, jasen.g1311, reported, stiletto, southbaybits, cnmtz

`post_id`	1,670,253
`author`	craig-grant
`permlink`	re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170102t180821690z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-02 18:08:21
`last_update`	2017-01-02 18:09:12
`depth`	3
`children`	10
`net_rshares`	78,800,902,747
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	200
`author_reputation`	437,634,056,353,838
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (9)

voter	rshares	pct
paco-steem	269,907,021	25%
spaninv	1,439,526,731	25%
stiletto	88,398,415	25%
jasen.g1311	230,911,461	100%
remlaps	14,143,783,103	100%
reported	113,567,714	100%
southbaybits	63,929,415	100%
cnmtz	58,169,756	100%
steemvoter	62,392,709,131	100%

@whatsup · Jan 3 '17 (edited)

Not all Authors did poorly, some authors did better, the entire reward pool was distributed anyway.  It was just directed where the votes went, without the tool.  If the business dies a new economy with new winners and losers takes over.  Like any economy.  Steemvoter does not create money, it just gives people a way to ensure they are "managing the rewards pool".  Those who are auto-voting would be less likely to see new and interesting Authors, or improving work.  It is just a way to say these are the people I want to vote for.  sight unseen.

👍 noisy, beanz

`post_id`	1,674,133
`author`	whatsup
`permlink`	re-craig-grant-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t061902392z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 06:19:03
`last_update`	2017-01-03 06:26:21
`depth`	4
`children`	9
`net_rshares`	247,623,394,721
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	550
`author_reputation`	404,265,487,362,343
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
noisy	0 B		169,326,403,493	100%
beanz	0 B		40,957,045,270	100%

@craig-grant · Jan 3 '17 (edited)

when whales are the only ones with bots, then steemit becomes less decentralized, I remember how it was before steemvoter, and it was not good for the average user who is not willing to suck up to whales, and beg for votes in private steemit chat channells

👍 steemvoter, cmtzco, jaredandanissa, jasen.g1311, reported, cnmtz

`post_id`	1,674,166
`author`	craig-grant
`permlink`	re-whatsup-re-craig-grant-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t062514368z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 06:25:12
`last_update`	2017-01-03 06:26:45
`depth`	5
`children`	3
`net_rshares`	73,958,033,064
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	256
`author_reputation`	437,634,056,353,838
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (6)

voter	rshares	pct
cmtzco	9,585,697,632	100%
jasen.g1311	230,911,461	100%
reported	113,567,714	100%
cnmtz	58,169,756	100%
jaredandanissa	1,576,586,578	100%
steemvoter	62,393,099,923	100%

3 replies

@craig-grant · Jan 3 '17

The trending page will not look fair until there are curation guilds like the steemvoter guild being represented on the trending page. Without steemvoter my steempower becomes worthless, and would be better off powered down and converted to bitcoin. Making my own bot is work, and I don't work, I have fun with applications like steemvoter

👍 steemvoter, reported, cnmtz

`post_id`	1,674,212
`author`	craig-grant
`permlink`	re-whatsup-re-craig-grant-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t063628991z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 06:36:27
`last_update`	2017-01-03 06:36:27
`depth`	5
`children`	1
`net_rshares`	63,864,693,641
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	339
`author_reputation`	437,634,056,353,838
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
reported	113,567,714	100%
cnmtz	58,169,756	100%
steemvoter	63,692,956,171	100%

1 reply

@craig-grant · Jan 3 '17

The only bot service that can even come close to steemvoter would be a service built into the steemit web site. Steemvoter is way ahead of all other services in terms of development, and is pushing forward at a very fast pace, there is no and will be no competition to steemvoter, that is for sure

properties (22)

`post_id`	1,674,268
`author`	craig-grant
`permlink`	re-whatsup-re-craig-grant-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t064934227z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 06:49:33
`last_update`	2017-01-03 06:49:33
`depth`	5
`children`	2
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	297
`author_reputation`	437,634,056,353,838
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

2 replies

@clayop · Jan 2 '17

$0.04

Agreed.
In this case, downvoting is a strong disagreement on rewards, not an attack to the service. (Trolls also downvote but they do regardless of the level of reward)

👍 xeroc, rossco99, boatymcboatface, blakemiles84, whatsup, berkah, pairmike, tracemayer, albertogm, skapaneas, l0k1, michaelx, phenom, ballinconscious, warrensteem, raymondspeaks, nulliusinverba, marialin, jayfox, ianboil, cmorton, garvofe, steemradio, bigsambucca, tamersameeh, araki

`post_id`	1,670,928
`author`	clayop
`permlink`	re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170102t200651682z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-02 20:06:54
`last_update`	2017-01-02 20:06:54
`depth`	3
`children`	3
`net_rshares`	1,054,463,023,093
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.036 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	168
`author_reputation`	274,017,170,680,915
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (26)

voter	rshares	pct
berkah	38,690,450,140	100%
rossco99	222,309,486,963	100%
xeroc	382,485,717,865	100%
boatymcboatface	142,806,101,103	100%
pairmike	24,841,386,196	100%
blakemiles84	76,851,773,044	100%
michaelx	7,779,460,936	100%
albertogm	10,954,689,850	100%
skapaneas	10,098,442,102	100%
raymondspeaks	3,241,381,668	100%
warrensteem	5,035,125,220	30%
phenom	7,282,308,137	100%
bigsambucca	525,440,847	100%
steemradio	730,469,129	100%
cmorton	1,269,529,744	100%
jayfox	1,735,325,862	100%
nulliusinverba	2,472,384,331	100%
l0k1	10,074,941,680	30%
tracemayer	13,119,456,595	100%
ballinconscious	6,276,975,256	100%
whatsup	43,745,239,595	100%
marialin	1,798,282,363	100%
ianboil	1,576,138,362	100%
garvofe	934,839,764	40%
araki	199,226,876	1%
tamersameeh	288,503,507	100%

@thecryptodrive · Jan 3 '17

Indirectly it is, because lower rewards means an unsustainable business model which will have to cost the users more in the long run or closes down the business, it's like a business receives money from  customers and puts the money in the till, but before the end-of-day cashup, a bigger customer comes in and takes half of the cash away from the business. A lot of people don't agree with downvoting @gandlaf (@gtg) included; why not just upvote other stuff and shift the rewards to what you do like, instead of a direct "kick-in-the teeth" disagreement? 

If Steem is ever to be mainstream friendly, the downvote method needs to be reviewed, ordinary users won't have a good feeling being on the platform, heck I've been here since April and I'm starting to get a bad feeling.

👍 remlaps

`post_id`	1,674,065
`author`	thecryptodrive
`permlink`	re-clayop-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t060500993z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"users": ["gandlaf"], "tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 06:04:57
`last_update`	2017-01-03 06:04:57
`depth`	4
`children`	2
`net_rshares`	14,143,783,103
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	779
`author_reputation`	102,067,831,711,389
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
remlaps	0 B		14,143,783,103	100%

@clayop · Jan 3 '17

If you convince "investors"(who pays for your business) that your business creates more value than the rewards you obtain, no one downvotes. Before you insist a high reward that compensates your costs, I think you can optimize your business (that will your service more competitive), and make consensus with the community.

And I think downvoting is a stronger-level disagreement. People might just not vote for steemvoters posts and voted for other posts they like and that only decreased very small fraction of steemvoters reward. You missed this stage already, and I would like to recommend you not to miss the current stage again.

👍 beanz

`post_id`	1,674,281
`author`	clayop
`permlink`	re-thecryptodrive-re-clayop-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t065302899z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 06:53:03
`last_update`	2017-01-03 06:53:03
`depth`	5
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	78,296,991,228
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	634
`author_reputation`	274,017,170,680,915
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
beanz	0 B		40,957,045,270	100%

@noisy · Jan 3 '17

if business cannot convince people to pay for service directly, then in most cases business like this just do not bring much value to those users... or is not maintainable in the long run.

properties (22)

`post_id`	1,675,498
`author`	noisy
`permlink`	re-thecryptodrive-re-clayop-re-beanz-re-craig-grant-re-steemvoter-steemvoter-news-paid-services-new-features-steemvoter-guild-anonymous-attacker-part-1-20170103t121826863z
`category`	steemvoter
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["steemvoter"]}"
`created`	2017-01-03 12:18:27
`last_update`	2017-01-03 12:18:27
`depth`	5
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2017-02-02 15:56:33
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	188
`author_reputation`	54,116,952,654,646
`root_title`	"Steemvoter News: Paid Services, New Features, Steemvoter Guild, Anonymous Attacker (Part 1)"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000