![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmZ11WsvRBKtURXTwyTB5rXJHrdNsHtzieXS2x39UtEybC/image.png) I have a hypothesis and I currently have not been able to identify an exception where it doesn't seem to hold true. I put this post out as a challenge as I am actually curious if there is an exception where the hypothesis is not true. HYPOTHESIS: That banning anything never actually achieves the publicly stated goal. It very well may achieve an unstated goal such as creating black markets and lucrative opportunities to tap into the black market. Looking at history I haven't been able to find a case where banning a substance, a tool, a form of literature, etc actually worked. It may have driven it underground but it still exists and sometimes due to the taboo nature and humans tendency to be fascinated with the taboo it can thrive there. It does create criminal industries within this black market area, and this has often lead to great wealth, and by extension power. Many such families that operated within these black markets went on to become incredibly powerful political families. I believe this hypothesis has some importance. I do not see signs that the War on Drugs has achieved its stated goal. I do believe our country has been corrupted to a large degree due to the black market side of the War on Drugs. I'd say things are far worse in the wake of the War on Drugs than they were prior to it's inception. I see demands for banning of guns and certain types of guns. Yet a person who intends to commit a crime in the first place such as robbery, murder, etc using a gun is already planning on committing a crime. Why would such laws stop this person? They could easily go to the black market, or as sometimes happen simply manufacture their own. This leaves the realization that the actual target are the non-criminals. There is already some corruption evidence in relation to guns and weapons that exist as a black market opportunity just like the drug war. Now to further offer some examples of how you can attack whatever you present before telling me about it. Let's consider the legal drinking age for alcohol. How well does that work out? Growing up finding someone that did not drink alcohol before they legally could was like finding a Unicorn. They were rare, or perhaps nearly fictional. In fact, getting alcohol and throwing parties before the drinking age tapped into that taboo thing and many people under the drinking age had difficulty considering the idea of "party" that did not include alcohol. It still happens. What is the purpose of such a hypothesis. If the hypothesis is accurate then that would indicate that banning things is stupid. It doesn't work. If we quit wasting our time with rushing to demand the government ban certain things then perhaps we can find actual solutions. I do believe we focus too much energy, money, bureaucracy, and punishment on things that don't work, and much of that energy, money, and punishment only exists due to the black market side that arises due to the banning. I am interested to know what you think.
post_id | 18,861,924 |
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author | dwinblood |
permlink | challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal |
category | challenge |
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also look at prostitution on Backpage for another example; they removed the escort specific category, so all the whores moved their ads to the *Personals* section LOL ***unintended consequences??? no such thing when we genius social engineers make decisions for the rest of humanity!*** > I do believe we focus too much energy, money, bureaucracy, and punishment on things that don't work it works as far as providing kickback and patronage to politicians and special interest groups ;>
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author | stevescoins |
permlink | re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171127t191912732z |
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Yeah that's why I said the "Stated goal". The hidden goal I think is the intention for those passing the bans to tap into the profit and power opportunities that the ban will produce.
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I say we ban and make it illegal to have freedom,peace,voting,and to critical think! ;-) Misdemeanor to smile,felony to laugh!
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Don't give them ideas. They'll try it. Look at how places are making it a crime to use the wrong pronoun. That is insanely stupid.
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It is my conclusion, That we live in in a crazy world,filled with crazy people. After all to be normal(average) in a crazy world means being crazy. I have no desire to fit into there crazy ideals.... And I am the crazy one...but I am not alone. lol!
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permlink | re-dwinblood-re-jesse2you-re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171127t193753569z |
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Really dumb to have a crime for not using the right pronoun. Just, what? People are insane.
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permlink | re-dwinblood-re-jesse2you-re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171127t195946708z |
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Banning things is one of the favourite tactics of the people you don't believe in! Works like a charm. The stated aim is NEVER the real aim... ![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmVjVtggGMXqKHPnwUwuFDLUsVNUftvfobt1qUyJ89iGCg/image.png)
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author | sift666 |
permlink | re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171127t193027900z |
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See I am a firm believer in just removing all the warning labels.
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author | weetreebonsai |
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Let people make their own choices. Let the rest of us learn from the results of stupid choices.
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permlink | re-weetreebonsai-re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171127t202937537z |
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Yup...
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That is not a hypothesis.. that is what common sense demands which sadly is not around here anymore in the world.. but you sir have plenty of it. Instead of banning, we should try to educate people. The more bans you will impose, the more frustrated people will grow...
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Well, you pretty much wrote my response for me lol... unless the unstated goal is creating black markets, ie. the war on drugs funded the CIA for decades. You're absolutely correct in all of your stated assumptions. The lure of the taboo seems to be one of the more potent of human instincts (perhaps that's the attraction of horror movies, vampires etc.). You pretty much nailed it all with this one buddy!
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@dwinblood. ThatΒ΄s a very interesting subject. It's a post to think and reflectioning.Thanks for sharing. Upvoted and follow.
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The βblackβ circuit let the economy run. Whatever wil be banned, will find his way through people who See money in it. So I believe; it has no sense to forbit something
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Curated for #informationwar (by @openparadigm) Relevance:Examination of Contrabad Laws https://steemitimages.com/1360x360/https://steemitimages.com/DQmVQZLicavpMgoGLci1kQ1fPVtuxgpGbq93mnULUc4KaFi/INFORMATIONWAR%20LOGO%20final.png
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_HYPOTHESIS: That banning anything never actually achieves the publicly stated goal._ back in the day..being _banned in boston_ pretty much insured profitability..
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Well it depends on what you are trying to ban and what your intended goal is for the ban, but I agree banning something will not eliminate whatever you are trying to ban completely (if that is the goal) humans will always find a way to get what they want... Since you were talking about banning guns, I would assume the goal of the ban would be to reduce gun related deaths. All you would have to do to see if that would work, is look at the per capita gun related deaths of countries around the world. If you compare USA and Australia for example, per capita gun related deaths in Australia are much lower than USA. You want less gun related deaths in the USA pass similar laws to what Australia has. Similar with the war on drugs, look at the statistics of other countries. Portugal for example decriminalised all drugs in 2001 and it has worked for them. Instead of spending tax dollars on the DEA/prisons/law enforcement they instead used those tax dollars on healthcare/rehab/therapy to help people. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html It is not about banning or not banning something, it is about eliminating/creating laws/policies that benefit the most people.
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I don't think it does matter what you are banning. I haven't found a case where it has worked. Have you?
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>It is not about banning or not banning something, it is about eliminating/creating laws/policies that benefit the most people. Semantics. Smokescreen. If you need to take it as proving it actually benefitted people as was stated as the goal. I cannot find a case where that is actually true. At least not yet. Ban substances, tools, literature, etc.
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>Since you were talking about banning guns, I would assume the goal of the ban would be to reduce gun related deaths. All you would have to do to see if that would work, is look at the per capita gun related deaths of countries around the world. If you compare USA and Australia for example, per capita gun related deaths in Australia are much lower than USA. You want less gun related deaths in the USA pass similar laws to what Australia has. This also depends on how you compare it. We could compare car related deaths too and I suspect the U.S. will have more per capita than many countries too. They often lump suicides in that. If a person is going to commit suicide they have made a decision. A gun is a tool. It did not control itself and kill them. People should be able to choose to do what they want and be responsible for the outcomes. If they are acting against another then that is when we should have laws related to property damage, assault, murder, etc. We already generally have laws for those things. Banning tools, substances, and literature doesn't stop that. Gun Control also doesn't stop criminals intent on using guns in crime. It only impacts regular people. I don't need to compare Australia (another country)... look at my starting image and its reference to Chicago. That is true. Strictest Gun Control in the nation and it has the highest gun related deaths in the nation. Gun control won't do shit except put non-criminals into further danger from criminals. I mean unless you plan on putting little shacks out in front of everyone's house and manning them with police. Otherwise someone that is a criminal comes at you with a gun calling 911 is not likely to save you and prevent deaths if that is the intent. If you have a gun to defend yourself and others with that has been PROVEN in many cases to be all the difference in the world. Banning impacts EVERYONE and treats everyone like potential criminals instead of focusing on the people that actually commit a crime.
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I think you are misunderstanding, I am looking at mathematical statistics, it is a mathematical fact that the per capita gun related deaths in Australia are lower than what they are in the USA. Obviously there is a reason for it, what do you think it is?
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> It very well may achieve an unstated goal such as creating black markets and lucrative opportunities to tap into the black market. Well, it's in fact very very simple. And you got this **totally** right my steemed @dwinblood. **Every.** ANY restriction, limitation, prohibition, banning, proscription, etc. Only might lead to P-R-I-V-I-L-E-G-E-S of some sort. Whatevah it may be, like exercised within a couple, a family, a clan, a tribe, a community, an entire society and well, put you the greater sample. :) In such encounters, meetings and/or gatherings, no matter how tiny, small, big or humongous these may be. As long as they are composed with such amount of jealous, possessive, envious, resentful, pretentious, egoistic, egocentric, inconsiderate, disaffected, greedy, insatiable, rapacious and.. and.. and.. *(erm.. Β‘Holy Cow! Please, Β‘Stop me now! mate)* ;) ..of these singular specimens & beasts we call **human beings....** I'm afraid, any chance they can envision a route to take advantage of a situation in which **any** of this **class** of handicapped creatures mentioned before. Flying upon the wings of *prohibition* perceive that through these dusty roads they can climb positions **above others** to attract and hoard exclusive gains, prebends, preeminence, superiority and a minimal of auto **illusory grandiosity** over any collective **public** banning. They will take the baton to milk the abrupt lucrative opportunities without thinking twice. Humanly, while we are still living in a world where the exchange of goods and services is mainly carried out through money, fiat money, coins, bills and tokens only in possession of the present system... As @livelifefullest already succinctly said: **"The βblackβ circuit is what let the economy run"**
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I think it greatly depends on what your "goal" is. If the goal is to get completely rid of something by banning it, then no - this can not be reached. If your goal is to limit or diminish something that is considered a danger for society, then prohibition might work - at least to some extent. 2 examples: - I am from Austria. We Austrians and Germans prohibited the political use of Nazi symbols as well as the denial of the holocaust after WW2. Of course that is an interference with the freedom of speech. But it has made life for neo-nazis difficult and helped to keep a very dangerous ideology marginalized for the last 70 years. - gun control: in most european countries, gun rights are very limited, and a lot of stuff that is legal in the US is prohibited. Does that mean there are no guns or accidents with guns in the EU? Ofc not. But a lot less, and also a lot less mass shootings, gun-connected criminality etc. So it works in aiding to protect society.
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Switzerland is a great example in Europe as well where gun access similar to what the U.S. was founded upon seems to have served them well. There can be many factors beyond access to the TOOL. It can also be due to cultural differences. Correlation does not always equal Causation. The sad thing about ANTI-NAZI here in the U.S. lately is that most of the people that are anti-nazi know of the holocaust, the uniforms, and the aryan race related racism, but they don't know what NAZI actually stood for, how it came to power, etc. In the U.S. those claiming to be anti-nazi actually often act more like a Nazi than other factions, and it is purely due to ignorance, appeals to emotion, and simply following the words of some authority figure without researching and learning themselves. Mass shootings can be far worse in casualties if those being shot at have been deprived of ability to defend themselves. So given CULTURE is likely a factor. In the U.S. 1) The place with the strictest gun control has the highest gun related deaths EACH month. It exceeds what happened in Las Vegas every month. That is Chicago if you wish to look into it at all. 2) The places with the least amount of gun control tend to have the least amount of gun deaths. I'm not sure if that includes suicides or not. Yet a suicide the person decided to kill themselves, the gun is often just the easiest, quickest, and effective. If they plan on committing suicide I do not see lack of a gun changing that, only changing the method they use. 3) We have the NRA which is vilified as they are pro-gun, and they actually wrote most of the background laws which are NOT AS EASY as the media likes to spin it. Only people that have never tried to purchase a gun spin the absurd stories and claims the media does. It is also interesting that no NRA member has EVER been involved in a mass shooting. Though one did bring the Texas Shooting to an end... not the police. As I understand it Switzerland every citizen is encouraged to have a weapon and they seemingly are quite peaceful. They've also managed to stay out of wars. Sounds more like a cultural thing to me than banning of a tool or access to a tool.
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I am not too familiar with the exact regulations in place in the US, but since you mention Switzerland, whose border is 50 km (miles?^^) from my hometown: - you are right that within europe, they are quite liberal concerning gun rights - BUT: they are far more regulated than the US. You have to take a test and gain a license that is only valid for 5 years before you are allowed to publicly carry a gun there. And this right does not include half-automatic weapons, which are prohibited to non-army/police members. - even so, the number of gun deaths per capita is much higher in switzerland than in other european countries (source: http://derstandard.at/1379291321776/Studie-Viele-Feuerwaffen-viele-Totehttp://derstandard.at/1379291321776/Studie-Viele-Feuerwaffen-viele-Tote - sorry, it's in german) So taken together that rather nails my point^^ Of course cultural differences also play a role, but I think there's sound evidence that tighter control leads to less idiots/criminals with guns, which leads to less gun deaths. Concerning the Nazis I won't get into the who-is-nazi-and-who-not thing, it's really a completely seperate topic. Prohibiting Nazi symbols, Nazi revisionism and the occasional political party that came too close to that ideology has served us Austrian/Germans well in building our democracy after that very ideology destroyed our countries and our continent 70 years ago. That was my whole point here. What I really wanted to say/show: Rules and regulations are not necessarily there to completely abolish a thing, but rather to diminish it. Thus, the argument "it is not possible to completely ban something" is technically true, but a bit empty. Imho, one should rather ask: "Is the loss of freedom that this particular regulation brings worth the benefits?"
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Upvoted and Followed! I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you... Also there is the idea that what a person devotes their attention to becomes stronger. E.g. It is better to love peace, than it is to hate war. Why? Because in "Loving Peace" attention, strength and energy is given to the very concept of Loving Peace. ... and "Hating War"? Well you can obviously see, and or perhaps feel the difference... Ultimately I feel it's about control and it's always interesting to discover who has the most to gain financially if something is banned... <i>Thanks for your post! :-)</i>
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author | as-i-see-it |
permlink | re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171128t214542707z |
category | challenge |
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root_title | "Challenge my current Hypothesis: Banning things does not achieve the stated goal..." |
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how can i challenge it you're right, following you now
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author | bernardchapin |
permlink | re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171128t232959701z |
category | challenge |
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In addition to the purposes stated, I think banning anything is used, not as a stated goal, to increase dependence by the people, on the government, with a result of power transferred to the state, from the people. I have not, so far, come up with any ban that has produced positive results. It is possible that some of the religious and cultural taboos and prohibitions on such things as having children with family members, and eating certain kinds of foods before refrigeration and germ theory, may fit the definition of a ban, and may have been some of the drivers of increased lifespan, and leisure time, in which to think and refine methods of production for still more increase in productivity and survival. If we can call these 'bans' then yes, it is possible, but giving people good advice doesn't seem to be a ban necessarily.
post_id | 19,401,070 |
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author | lifeworship |
permlink | re-dwinblood-challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal-20171203t232954189z |
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