A bold question and wohld love to see the input on the subject. Looking forward to make one too...

The biological imperatives are real, for both women desiring to be found attractive and men desiring to respond.  it's an eternal dance, a poem, a song...  and I don't think it will ever neatly fit into an intellectually constructed box.  Me?  Im happy that there is no clear answer and that a delicious tension remains.  I say that as a woman who has also been violently raped, and yet who has come to accept that the myriad of signals we send out may be misheard, and that so many of our brothers are also frustrated, angry and desperately in need of intimacy and connection.  Grateful for your perspectives.

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.
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Why would a women dress provocatively if she didn't want the attention?

what an amazing place this is! Just amazing.

This question cannot be answered.

Your analysis misses... almost everything that is of real importance to the subject.

"grab them by the pussy."  -- a clip played over and over to disparage Chump.

But, what was the whole sentence?  It was something like "they let you grab them by the pussy."  

In order to answer this question, we have to frame it correctly.
You have to add in hypergamy, the female sex drive.

Women want to date up.
They want the alpha man.
And for these men they are outright sluts.
Women will do anything, including have sex in front of others, for these guys.  They will have sex with them on the night before their wedding.

20% of men have 80% of the sex.
40% of men have 20% of the sex.
40% of men have NO sex, no touching, no hand holding, no kissing, nothing.

Women dress up for those top 20% of men.  The next 40% of men can look but not touch.  The bottom 40% of men shouldn't look.

So, when you bring up this question, you are asking, what should the bottom 80% of men do?  What should be their responsibility?

Well, what do you say to a group of men who have had sex thrown at them in every advert all their lives, who have been sold the lie of marrying a good woman.  Their entire world view is wrong.  But, if we actually told them the truth, the world would burn.

And i haven't even gotten into over-stimulation that is caused by the make-up and clothing.  Sure, you can ask of a man to ignore stimulation, but can you push him past the breaking point and then tell him to control himself?

I live in a very rare subculture due to the woman  I married. I chose my wife because of her modesty, expressed in every facet of her character including dress. She has a vivacious spirit, a friendly disposition, and can look a man in the eye and sometimes be sassy, but she understands true humility. Her spiritual directors and mentors throughout her life have modeled meekness and ego-death, having come to the place of surrender that they no longer need to impress anyone, defend themselves, nor do they need anything. If a woman sits down with a short skirt and uncrosses her legs, the carpet pattern on the floor seems to suddenly capture every man's attention. She is obviously ignorant of what she is doing, and should not be taken advantage of because of her naivete. However, most women in the community take great attention to their wardrobe and see to it that their chests, thighs, and shoulders are not paraded publicly for all to enjoy. the body is sacred and should be treated and viewed as sacred. 

that being said, there are men who make a great loud stink about modesty, creating strict rules for how long dresses must be, how a woman's hair must be done, etc. Fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims seem to share the opinion that if they could just wrap the female body in enough layers it would cure their own hearts of lust. How could that possibly be?! who is responsible for your heart except for you? I find that the ones who are going around measuring skirts are often found with their hands up them. This is an intolerable hypocrisy!

I intend to teach my daughters to respect their sacred vessels and to treat their bodies with respect, and to teach my sons that their hearts are their own responsibility. My sons will learn respect for women and all living things. I will teach my children about their individual rights, and about consent. there are so many nuanced aspects to human sexuality and power dynamics, many of which are not even intentionally taught, but there are plenty of ways to create a healthy culture for another generation. I would like to avoid both shame and lust- both of which are unhealthy attachments to form instead of essence.

Thank you for this piece @ecoalex and the topic. It is quite a good one and all i can say is your clothing and how you dress says a lot about you. It is a fact that no one can deny. So if you want to be treated like a lady and with respect then dress like one and vice versa.

good post, @eco-alex. Thanks for bringing this up.

Cool waters you are surfing here :-).  I don't know about other guys and would love to know but the more provocative, the less it excites me.

@wwf you should be here

Nice post, I am also unaffected by beautiful women.  Women are definitely responsible for how they dress and portray themselves.  Women dictate how they want to be perceived by how they carry themselves.  That's really true for both gender.

Both. Women dress provocatively in order to get attention. Otherwise, there is no reason for the various provocative clothes to be put on. They could wear things like mean, the cover up and aren't so tight.

They do dress in low cut shirts showing cleavage because it draws attention, otherwise they could dress in another way that doesn't show cleavage. As men don't dress in the same way with low cut shirts because there is no sexually provocative purpose for it.

Men need to be able to control themselves from raping women or assaulting them, but the provocative dressing stimulates attention and attraction. If women didn't want the attention or attraction, they could change how they dress and be more "conservative" or "modest"  in exposing their sexualized attributes. The whole purpose of dressing provocatively is to draw attention.

>Here's the thing... many men are unable to control themselves.

<b>there are doctors who could help with that...</b>

>Put a few men together and let a stunning woman walk past and see what happens! All eyes follow, and the guys will always mention it to each other afterwards in some kind of comment..

<b>Women do that too...</b>

As for the responsibility and dressing appropriately... Who determines what is appropriate? You said it your self that we are multicultural in big cities now. When I dress up in the morning, do I need to think about all the different men my clothes may offend or attract? Some men are attracted by sneakers, SNEAKERS!!! Should I stop wearing sneakers? Some men are attracted by tight clothes, ok so only baggy clothes from now on. No cleavage and no skirts, only pants and shirts to my neck. Fine.. Oh, wait. I dont think so :) 

The problem is that we are all subjective and what you or your friend find attractive is not what some other man will like. How are we to please you all? I have an idea, screw pleasing you. Learn to control yourself or go see a doctor. Not you, you are lovely honey, but men who can not control themselves should seek professional help. I wonder if men are careful what they wear, they are not. I wonder why that is...

And as for the animal world... All around animal kingdom, males are seducing females, not the other way around. Males have pretty shiny feathers, horns and are showing off in front of ladies. Why is it different for humans is beyond me. We should put men in sparkles, I vote for that :D

Thank you for a wonderful read, you made some good points and it shows that you really tried to look at this from every angle. I respect your message that we should know and understand before we judge, that is always an important thing to know. Much love 💚

i totally agree.

We (both sexes) are all animals with a veneer of concousness and social awareness stretched thinly over the surface.  Its not womens fault that they want to provoke men, and its not mens fault that they react; billions of years of evolution have resulted in that, with just a few thousands of years of culture trying to compete with it.

However our animalistic urges do need to be contolled (by both men and women) and they offer no excuse for physically or emotionally hurting anyone else.

> Whilst men react to different degrees to this kind of stimulus, its far to say that most men are wired in the same way. They have this kind of instinct to seduce a woman... they have a carnal desire to procreate and have sex with different women, even if they are married. It's fair to say that MOST men cheat (may women too!), and whether or not they are married, they are always on the look out for someone else. I know this because of ALL the men i have ever known, VERY VERY VERY few have been faithful.

I'm sorry, but I disagree, and a lot. The problem is that they've been told it's okay to follow their instincts and primal desires, because that's their make up. However, it's because they haven't been raised to control themselves - it's just another symptom of a hedonistic, ego driven, desire culture that allows for men to have these freedoms and not woman and then say 'it's in their nature'. It's just an excuse. You can't compare human beings to animals - we have the ability to reason and have self control. There's never, ever any excuse for unwanted attention especially when the message is loud and clear. Sure, woman might want attention - but they never WANT men to behave in a way that is harmful i.e rape etc. I guess it depends what you're classifying as unwanted attention. 

To be honest, it's a cultural thing and it's an identification thing and this seems to have crossed cultures in the favour of men too. Men are socialised to demand, woman to take it. It's everywhere and all pervasive in the media. If men could control themselves and tell their boys how to handle their desires - and i'm saying mothers too have this responsiblity - then maybe we wouldnt have this question in the first place. It's not just woman who are responsible, it's men, it's the culture, it's all of us.

As a guy, I sort of understanding where your coming from, but as you say, we're all different. To understand if  a woman is being provocative or not, first off, you need to understand what a woman thinks is provocative - and you could only understand that, if you understood what they think a man finds attractive, assuming we are speaking hetorsexual here :)  .... hence the crack whore in the photo.

Sexuality and sexual provocation is the most subtle of things. To really know the answer to your question, you would have to know how your hormones are dressed rather than the person that contains them.

Personally for me its back and shoulder muscles - show me a healthy Trapezius or Deltoid any day :) Some 'women' that I have met, find things like 'wrists', shoulders and 5 day beard growth attractive.

Its always seemed to me that people over estimate the power of presentation, and underestimate the power of those unseen forces that lay beneath the skin.

You can certainly make an impression with dress, and you can shock or make a statement, but if you believe that's going to get you laid, then that would be a rather unfortunate mindset.

Rather than associate someones dress with their sexual prowess or vibrance, we could alternatively consider it a gauge of just how desperate someone has become. 

Anyway, very brave of you to post this Alex :) U crazy man !