RE: Let's Talk About Fees & Functionality Coming in the @tippy Text-to-Tip Service! by edje

View this thread on steempeak.com

Viewing a response to: @klye/let-s-talk-about-fees-and-functionality-coming-in-the-tippy-text-to-tip-service

· @edje ·
$0.79
My thoughts on functionality are not so much at this point in time. I suggest to launch it soon and let the people who try it come up with suggestions, it is always better to learn in practice then in theory. One suggestion I have, move ASAP to a button in the Steemit UI, as well as Busy.org UI...but preferably only Steemit UI now, by far the most users on Steemit UI + it gives a benefit to the Steemit UI to use for those who like to tip. The comment phrase looks simple, but people will make mistakes. For Steemit INC it is almost no work to get a button in their UI.

On transaction/tipping fee. I agree some fee shall be applied since development is not for free. You could implement a transaction fee as you suggested, in a later phase you could also implement a subscription fee, ie for x Steem per month a user is allowed to tip y times. From making revenue, this subscription fees are always interesting since people tend to forget they paying a fee, while may not use the service for some time. I understand your thoughts in low percentage for small amounts and higher percentage for larger amounts. I also understand @ned, when have a lower amount on a higher tip/transaction, people may be incentives to send higher tips. BUT, with most of use earning free money by blogging/commenting/curating, I don't think these arguments will work. But why not testing this? I would go for simplicity at launch, 1 single percentage regardless of the tip/transaction value. Any service becomes successful for its simplicity, ie Simplicity is the KEY element in any service. The percentage itself, well that is a balance between what the users are willing to pay for and what your costs are that went into creating this. One very proven and successful pricing strategy is in any service coming to market is, free from the beginning, and at some point in time start asking money for it. At that point you will loose customers, but while the service was free you will gain more customer than if it was not for free. I've seen that many times in many different countries with SMS pricing and SMS services pricing. Whenever those was made free or much less expensive, the usage went sky high, after applying the normal pricing again, the usage came down, but usually the usage was higher than before such SMS-for-free campaign. Another thing to think about is, how you like the community to perceive your service, but also you as a person. That also determines how you price the service. Do you like progressive systems? Like out tax systems, the more you earn the more you have to pay in relative terms? I don't, therefore I like contant fees, either in relative terms or in absolute terms, but no progression or digression. But commercially that may not be the best pricing strategy.
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vote details (14)
@ned · (edited)
$0.23
Actually, to be fair, I suggested a lower fee percentage for greater sums would better than the reverse (higher percentage for greater sums), but that a flat  fee percentage is probably the way to go.  I also suggested and pointed out quite a few other things about tip bots - including the risks for the operator and users, especially if they are to scale.
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vote details (4)
@edje ·
$0.16
Tip bots like any other instant service requires a solid foundation, ie scalability is to be solved from the ground up in day one, as well as availability. Especially a tipping service requires business critical availability since people get frustrated when it doesn't work. And frustrated people are bad for the success of the service. What also is very important is the absolute flawless handling of the tips, ie once accepted by the system, it shall never be lost, so data redundancy is required. @klye will the tip administration and value recording be done on the Steem blockchain? Or will the service gets its own DB?
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vote details (2)
@klye ·
$0.03
The current version stores its user data in a custom structured database. However I do really like the idea of somehow having all user data and stats info stored on the STEEM blockchain..! I'm not sure I'll be able to figure that out in the 2 week deadline I've given myself but if by chance I do have a breakthrough on STEEM blockchain storage of data I'll certainly be attempting an implementation in future versions.
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vote details (1)
@ats-david ·
$0.53
@ned

Shouldn't a tipping purse be something that Steemit, Inc. can integrate on the site through the UI? I know I've mentioned this in the past - having an option to fill a smaller purse with an amount of STEEM/SBDs that can be tipped to users on the post with the click of a button when logged in with the posting key. Do you think that would be feasible as a wallet/UI function?

If this could be done, then it would also help bring in more potential earnings for older posts that are past the payout window...while the reader is right there on the post. (Of course, this would also assume that older posts can actually be found by simple navigation around the platform, but that's another development that needs to be tackled.)
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vote details (4)
@klye ·
Part of the reason I'd started on this project months ago is to be able to avoid clicking on buttons as much as possible to streamline the way we tip eachother on here.

Although if by some miracle Steemit Inc extends interest in implementing the @tippy functionality into the GUI I'd gladly work with them to get it done. :D
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vote details (1)
@ned · (edited)
$0.23
One - upvotes *are* tips. 

Two - transfers, which anyone can use for tips, could be implemented on the article pages - but users would need active keys.  Transfers from articles pages are essentially the same function as transfers from steem wallet pages.

A smaller purse, like you described, could be accomplished as a new account balance with its own key authority - call it the tipping till - controlled by the tipping key.   But this can be seen as largely a naming convention.  It reflects what can already done between regular accounts and savings accounts.

My short answer is that it is possible - anything is possible, but that we will not be putting this on Steemit's near term development roadmap - as I pointed out much of the functionality already exists.
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vote details (10)
@klye ·
I'm thinking I might flat fee it.. Seems to be what most would prefer!

Might be a little over tired having been up all night working on @tippy.. If I misinterpreted or botched what ideas you'd put forward to me when brainstorming my apologies captain!

There are risks as you mentioned when dealing with user funds as well as risk that government may take notice and try and ding operators for transmitting money without a license. APpreciate the insight and knowledge you've shared with me as well as the support of my STEEM service development. <3
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@klye ·
$3.30
@tippy tip ned 0.1 steem
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vote details (5)
@everythink ·
What about autotipping by upvotes? This is implemented in **[Dobrobot in Golos](https://golos.io/@dobrobot/transfers)**. Works fine for me! On each my upvote Dobrobot transfers 5 Golos to user which is upvoted by me.
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@ned ·
$0.03
Interesting idea! Are there any caps on how much Golos is available to tip with the posting key?
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vote details (1)
@klye ·
$0.31
Wow. Now THIS is thoughts and feedback. Thank you for taking the time to write what is on your mind.

I'd love for my code to make it into the site and be officially implemented so I can gloat to my non-existant friends in real life that I created a service used by a multi-million dollar network. However I'd not really even set that as my goal until you mentioned it.. I'll perhaps have to ask the Steemit INC crew what needs done on my end to get tippy ready to rock and roll on the GUI.

I'd briefly played with the idea of a subscription style service rolled into @tippy and the way you describe x amount of tips free would be interesting. Perhaps have a $1SBD, $5SBD, $20SBD, etc etc optional monthly subscription that would allow chargless tipping and perhaps even access to advanced functionality.

I really appreciate you brainstorming with me. Perhaps a constant fee and subscription offering is the way to go.

Cheers man.
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vote details (11)
@edje · (edited)
$0.16
I would launch with either: absolute contant fee, or constant percentage. The advantage of the later is that someone who want s to tip a really low amount can do that without paying up to 100%+ on commission. Since we have many many mini mini mini minnows int he community making a couple of cents on their post, I would suggest to go with a fixed percentage at start. Be aware your service may get a lot of hits when introducing such pricing strategy, bot may be created that tip 1.000s of tips within seconds, maybe sending 1000 account each 0.001 Steem. So have a plan ready how to mitigate this when it happens. You do not want to have an real outage on your service. So when your service is not able to handle many tx per second, you may want to introduce with a tx fee constant in absolute value, this will reduce the amount of tips generated. Oh, from engineering point of fee, think how you can throttle the tip requests, with meaningful feedback to the tippers when their tips are not possible to be accepted.
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vote details (2)
@klye · (edited)
$0.03
I'm thinking some sort of queue system that serves multiple tippy accounts in round robin should be enough to handle high service loads.. However I'd not even given thought to users making bots to mess with it.. I'll have to do some research and testing once I get my load handling / 20 second limiter work around functioning.
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vote details (1)
@klye ·
$0.03
@tippy tip edje 0.1 steem
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vote details (2)
@edje · (edited)
this is what I got in my wallet:
3 hours ago	Receive 0.099 STEEM from tippy	Tip from @klye via @tippy memo: Text to Tip Service - 1.00% Fee: 0.001

This works!

Can you make the command like this? "**@tippy edje 0.1**"?

This makes it more simple. Tip will then always by Steem, so not possible to tip with SBD, but that should be fine, or? You could consider to put @ sign in front of recipient, this is what Steemit user are accustomed to, but not sure if that works for your application. Ohw, also note the . and , are in USA different to eg Europe. Not sure if possible, but if both can be accepted as the same ie 0.1 = 0,1 would cause maybe some less errors.

In text messaging and especially USSD (not sure of you know that from your mobile) they usually use some extra markers in from of the text message to identify it is a command. It will complicate things a bit, but may also become more recognisable as a command rather than a comment. Characters like # * are used, but I guess this may be not wise with Steemit's markdown editor and different meaning to those symbols.
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@klye ·
$0.03
I could implement that command structure if you'd like. Anything is possible.

Could use a $ in front of the integer to tell the bot to send SBD... Will have to play with it a bit.

Got powerups working now too. You can use your steem balance to power up others via tippy now. :)

I'm still working on functions then going to attempt to integrate STEEM blockchain backups and whatnot.  Then I need to tackle the queue / post limit evasion and get the restart block checker going and we should be good for some insanity testing. :D
👍  
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vote details (1)