There was a very interesting development around the topic of religion a couple of weeks before the 4th of July payout and the massive influx of users onto the steemit platform. It began with [@danthemans post](https://steemit.com/philosophy/@dan/why-i-gave-up-christianity) this was followed up by a [rebuttal](https://steemit.com/philosophy/@stan/why-i-will-never-give-up-christianity) from his father @stan. Due to the popularity and discussion created around these two posts a lot of very interesting and mostly respectful posts ensued with the topic of religion and philosophy as their main element. Very uncharacteristically to what we are very used to on the web (that discussions involving religion or politics quickly descend into chaos and suffer an often heated and unpleasant demise) these resulted in robust but very respectful debates. Due to the respectful nature of things I even ventured to mention some of my religious persuasions in [my introduction](https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@gavvet/greeting-from-an-analyst-in-africa) In that intro I hinted at perhaps sharing some of my mental gymnastics in future posts. The Sunday night post --------------------- As Sunday is my Sabbath… I’m going to experiment with taking a break from my usual everyday posts featuring authors to focus on something a little different. I love complex problems and sometimes getting science and religious beliefs to “play nice” can be pretty intriguing and mind bending. How I mix science and religion. ------------------------------- First up I want to examine some of the claims made by Jesus Christ to see if they hold any water from a scientific perspective. http://www.ldswallpaper.com/wp-content/gallery/jesus1024x768/jesuschristredrobelarge_1024x768.jpg Claim 1: Jesus Christ had power over death ------------------------------------------ Jesus, while yet alive and during his mortal ministry, claimed that he had power over life and death. “No man taketh it from me,"[he said](http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/10-18.htm)" but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” This is an extraordinary claim and so we would need to see some pretty extraordinary evidence. That evidence was manifested in his raising a number from the dead during his ministry and from His resurrection three days after the crucifixion. There seem to be many claimed eyewitness accounts that these events indeed happened. These may be disputed or accepted depending from individual to individual. Whether this resurrection did or did not take place is not the purpose of this post. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We cannot examine these claims on whether these event took place as documented for ourselves. They occur in a time, place and culture far removed from or own. What we can examine is the veracity of the web of claims surrounding this central claim to see if they stack up scientifically. We have learned a lot from science since Darwin to Modern studies in genetics. We now know quite a bit about heritability and inheritance. For all of us death is a certainty… we inherit that from our parents. If Christ had claimed power over death without claiming some sort of special parentage that would be very inconsistent with what we understand regarding inheritance. But indeed Christ did claim special parentage. Claim 2: Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. -------------------------------------------- This second claim backs up the first from an inheritance perspective. From his mother (a mortal) he inherited the ability to die. From his Father (God, an immortal) he inherited the ability to live forever. Claim 1 and Claim 2 are therefore consistent -------------------------------------------- But, some will protest, there is nothing extraordinary about this. The culture that Jesus was born to had been farming for millennia. It doesn’t take rocket science or even modern science to figure out inheritance when you are breeding plants and animals for a livelihood. Good Point Also, surrounding cultures had many myths of gods impregnating mortals to produce demigods and hero’s. So once again nothing very unique there in those two claims. Good Point So all we establish is consistency. Not uniqueness. We need more claims… Claim 3: Jesus as Savior ------------------------ Christ claims to save. Save from what we ask? Save from sin... What is sin? Science does not have this concept. So we give science a simple definition of sin. Sin is transgression of Law. What Law the scientist asks? In its simplest form that many are familiar with, “the ten commandment” OK now we have something we can evaluate. If we evaluate the Ten Commandments we see that at least more than half of them are devoted to preventing some sort of societal disorder. Disorder, Order. Now we have something to work with from a scientific perspective. Evaluating Christ's teachings as a whole we see that sin is often about breaking down order and inviting disorder into our lives. So if Christ saves from sin then he saves us from disorder and chaos. --------------------------------------------------------------------- By moving into the realms of order, disorder and chaos we start to open a huge can of worms in the form of order vs entropy and the laws of thermodynamics. This post is getting long, so hopefully this is enough to spark a conversation. Based on that I will explore Jesus Christ and the laws of thermodynamics next week. Thermodynamics is stuff, that unlike inheritance, the ancients would have been less privy too.
post_id | 374,277 |
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author | gavvet |
permlink | is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ |
category | religion |
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Hi! This post has a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesch%E2%80%93Kincaid_readability_tests">Flesch-Kincaid</a> grade level of 8.5 and reading ease of 65%. This puts the writing level on par with Leo Tolstoy and David Foster Wallace.
post_id | 374,281 |
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permlink | re-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t164216 |
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Nice @gavvet Shot you an Upvote :)
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I enjoyed reading your post! Upvote from me!
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Very interesting post. Thanks for posting about it!! Here is more more about Christ as amyth. There is a lot of evidence that he has never existed! "Are the New Testament gospels history? Where's the proof? | Acharya S | D.M. Murdock" (Scientific Evaluation) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsaRQDxmLqY And some other interesting information in this documentary ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjHk9nKUNNs
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t165042509z |
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I guess I have to follow you around everywhere you post this and post my response: You can't prove a negative so there is NOT overwhelming evidence that Jesus never existed. All of the direct evidence that exists has been collected for you in one library called the Bible. After contemporaries have done all that work for you it is disingenuous to say that there is nothing else except what was collected and preserved. The burden of proof does not lie with those making extraordinary claims. They are there for you to accept or reject as you will. Jesus made it clear that He had no intention (deliberately) to give you unassailable proof. He provided enough evidence for those who want to find Him and not enough evidence for those who don't. It's a filter and filters are designed to let some things get through and keep others out. I laugh (sadly) at those who sit on the outside demanding that Jesus do even more than die for them. They want to be spoon fed while keeping their mouths firmly shut - just like a 2 year old rejecting a big spoonful of coconut cream pie!
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permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t181043604z |
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Let me ask you something: why, exactly, would people not want to find Jesus? It's not that atheists don't want to find god. It's that they looked for god and saw nothing. They got no answers to their prayers, saw no evidence that was compelling enough for them to become believers. Trust me, many atheists would LOVE to believe in a kind god and an afterlife.
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I will just repeat. Bible is not an evidence of God, as it has little verification in actual historical events and little basis in science. It is clearly explained in the video, why Bible is not an evidence. Bible IS NOT and evidence of existence of Christ, same as Marvel comic book is not an evidence of Spider-Man. I should not even reply to your comments as it is typical nonsensical response by someonee who clearly lack capacity for logical reasoning and understand logical fallacies . Typically, you have just used a logical fallacy called Circular Reasoning - god exists because the Bible says god exists and, since god wrote the Bible, it must be true.
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permlink | re-stan-re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t182410247z |
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You can't prove to me Jesus never existed, therefore Jesus must have existed. Stan's argument from ignorance fallacy.
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permlink | re-stan-re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t185341521z |
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Prove to me there is not a teapot orbiting mars. Therefore there is a teapot orbiting mars.
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permlink | re-stan-re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t195053051z |
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I respect your belief on this topic and as I often do, I tend to look at both sides of the argument. I think Richard Dawkins is incredibly intelligent even though I disagree with his beliefs. Here is something you can take into consideration too. http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
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author | bendjmiller222 |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t183958751z |
category | religion |
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Thanks for reply but you missed the point by saying "I respect your belief", as my view of world is not based on any belief. I do not BELIEVE in ANYTHING. I CONSIDER the most probable POSSIBILITIES by trying to take into account all facts, I have been lucky to be aware of, that science has discovered so far :-) http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg541/Peter_April/Believe_zpsc0sgencs.jpg
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permlink | re-bendjmiller222-re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t184838669z |
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This post is great. Not because I am overly interested in the content or because I choose sides in the narrative. But because it's showing the potential of the Steemit network as a place to discuss and debate, not just vote on the post and leave a snappy 2-liner or a beg for a backvote. And that's worth a lot in social media.
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author | spookypooky |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t214745740z |
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Sadly such debates are very uncommon on Steemit. Majority of conversations and comments are about bullshit. Steemit is mostly a place for rich to get richer
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author | logic |
permlink | re-spookypooky-re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t215859551z |
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I would say that Jesus is a real person. However he was rather a magician than a son of god, what have made him very popular.
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author | hrottie |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t001418097z |
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having records of Christ 30-40 years after his death is actually really really good for ancient sourcing. I'm fine with you saying he never existed, but I have a list of about 200 historical figures who you also have to say never existed by this logic. The "Christ was a myth" argument is kind of ill-informed, you will find very very few - secular and religious - biblical history scholars who support it. Those who do are often kind of fringe figures. I mean this as no insult to you, but Christ existing is pretty much solid. It's his divinity that's in question (and that question is a lot more interesting)
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author | holdencaulfield |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t012657713z |
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Please give me a list of these so called 200 figures, and explain why would they be considered as non exisiting.
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author | logic |
permlink | re-holdencaulfield-re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t014706384z |
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i could answer Zeitgeist, all that mention there are Christified and all are symbolic in all culture ( like Sumerian tablets) and december 25 is the begining of the sun movement , december 20 is the finish of the past calendar , julian calendar, now we are in gregorian calendar.
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author | miguel12 |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t013556196z |
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Zeitgeist is a really *really* bad documentary. It cites no sources and literally makes things up (like saying Christ was based on Horus, news to the thousands of secular and religious Jesus scholars). Here's a really good debunking: http://crossexamined.org/whats-wrong-with-the-zeitgeist-movie/ (A christian site, but the debunking is original from a skeptical site that has since gone bust and that was the only place that still had it) **EDIT** Skeptic Project has a much better point by point rebuttal, I thought people would appreciate a more scientific host: http://skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/
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author | holdencaulfield |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t022109167z |
category | religion |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78 This one I think is the best, but difficult to get a believer to commit 10 minutes of their life to the actual origin of their mythology. Super interesting stuff though. After I watched it, even my unconscious fears of religion melted away. Watch it, what could you lose?
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author | cryptoclub |
permlink | re-logic-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t050834987z |
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It is certainly true that Satan has done his best to sew false and confusing myths throughout history to minimize and hide the truth. Like flares and chaff to distract missiles from finding the real aircraft. <center>https://i.gyazo.com/8ca532290bd20419e9cc453781e0f660.png</center> But Christians have Jesus Christ in person, spending years with ordinary but highly credible people who in turn spent decades sharing their experiences with startup churches all around the Mediterranean Sea. This is the basis of Christianity and the primary reason why people believe the narrative about Him. Not vague story telling around campfires over the preceding millennia. Jesus specifically stated that the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. "Moses and the Prophets") were true and should be believed: "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" So our faith has solid grounding in real people at a real place and time and is not derived from other ancient myths. Assuming that the myths described in this video are not the products of the authors imagination stated in a way to maximize the correlation with Jesus' story, I can think of a combination of several ways they may have occurred. 1. Christian history / Jewish prophecy goes back to around 4000 BC so there is lots of opportunity for information to flow the other way - from them to other surrounding cultures. 2. Satan is actively engaged in planting false rabbit trails everywhere he can. Jesus said he was "the father of lies". 3. Pagan stories did get mixed in with Christianity by the misguided Roman church over the centuries. They happily added the pagan "Christmas Tree" and moved the celebration of Jesus birth to December 25th to make it more acceptable to Pagans (and to Preempt their existing holidays with Christian alternatives.) This so-called "Christian" activity was also the work of Satan, sewing more confusion and lies to obscure the Truth. So I stay grounded in specific eyewitness accounts of what Jesus did and said and what his followers learned from Him - in person and through his promised guidance by the Holy Spirit. It is a fascinating video however. It just gets its causes and effects mixed up.
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Interesting perspective, enjoyed reading your post. I won't call any of this scientific though. There's no empirical basis to your arguments. For example, thermodynamics are related to heat and temperature, not sins and resurrections. I understand I may come off as pedantic about semantics, but the point is - scientific study done on an empirical basis simply does not apply to theological or philosophical quandaries. All that said, it does make for interesting analogies. :) I welcome them as thought experiments. Personally, I don't think it's possible to reconcile science with Christianity.
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I plan to develop this in more detail next week... look forward to you feedback on the "though experiments" then.
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One of the biggest issues that people need to decide on is whether the bible is fact, fiction, or a bit of both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics (obviously not a reliable source, but a brief overview of what it is). Regardless of the stance and position you believe in, the book [I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist](https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Enough-Faith-Atheist/dp/1581345615/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469989595&sr=8-1&keywords=i+dont+have+enough+faith+to+be+an+atheist+book) is a very interesting read. Hope that is helpful for your further posts
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permlink | re-gavvet-re-liberosist-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t183024099z |
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@liberosist and @gavvet, I wanted to comment, but then the comment became too long for the comment section. Please have a look at my argument in the post [Does the Teleological argument prove the existence of God](https://steemit.com/religion/@jacor/does-the-teleology-prove-the-existence-of-god)
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Well that's a much nicer way than I put it.
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When you allow science to become your mental religion, you become one of the worst types of intellectual degenerate in existence: the type who is sure that everything needs a scientific basis in order to be real. And the fun part is that such degenerate attitudes are not even scientific. There is no basis for them in the scientific method. It's pure arrogance and hubris. ## Jesus said: "The Sabbath exists for man, not man for the Sabbath." Today we can say with equal perspicacity: "Science exists for man, not man for Science"
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Shot you an Upvote :)
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The Bibble
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LOL
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Hehe :D
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gotta catch 'em all!
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haha :D
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author | dercoco |
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Regardless , Science or Not the best way to judge this is by living with a clear conscience. No conflict just understanding. Not Love but kindness. Not War just peace..
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author | rhyankulets |
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I agree and disagree with you @rhyankulets - LOVE is the way. Kindness is good and all, but the true path to God is through the Love of him and expressing that love to all people and Gods creations. It is not enough just to be kind.
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How do you love something you can't see, hear or feel?
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permlink | re-nathanjones-re-rhyankulets-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t183133191z |
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this is deep
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No emoticon, not sure if this is sarcasm or genuine :)
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permlink | re-gabbans-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t184614731z |
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https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/http://i.imgur.com/nUvihD9.gif **The most appropriate gif for this topic! Up Vote!** *More Steemit Gifs* [**Here**](https://steemit.com/steemit/@minion/introducing-the-new-steemit-gifs-share-greater-than-enjoy-greater-than-promote-steemit-while-doing-so)
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I find it difficult to believe in any religion written down by man. It becomes an appeal to authority. This is a form of logical fallacy. We see how 60,000+ denomination of Christianity in the U.S. alone exist and each of them is slightly different and believe they are correct. Extrapolate this back thousands of years. (you don't have to do this just with Christianity, it is simply the one I grew up with and am most familiar with) Now go back far enough in history and you'll encounter the Council of Nicea. They compiled what we know of today as the bible. They decided what stories/tales/histories should go into this book. They decided which should not. This can be viewed as editing, it can also be viewed as censorship. This is partially why the dead sea scrolls are a big deal. Christians of antiquity (and again this applies to other religions) were fond of destroying that which did not fit with their world view. Witness one of the worst losses of information in history, the burning of the Library of Alexandria. What little we know about Plato are from small collections of works that survived that disaster. In modern days that was like handing everyone a bible, destroying the libraries and the internet, and saying "this is all you need." Yet at that time the Gutenberg Press had not been created so the common people largely had not read the bible. Many of them could not read. They had to trust what another man told them was the word and will of God. We have seen historically how wrong this can go (not just Christianity). So let's talk Jesus... I think the Sermon on the Mount is pretty great stuff. I have some things that pop into my head when I think of Jesus. I may make a post instead. I would like to illicit some responses and civil discussion, and I had nothing else I was planning to post today.
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t173900003z |
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Cool... that's part of the experiment... seeing if the audience is still mature enough to "resurrect" the religion tag... there were some really thought provoking posts and discussions a couple of weeks back.
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permlink | re-dwinblood-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t175741845z |
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I think that the term "relion" is far too broad. Many people say they are religious, but only mean they go to church, or have parents who are christians or catholic or other denominations. I believe in a personal relationship, and I guess while people consider that "religious" I like to separate from that tag. I'm excited to see where this goes as well as people weigh in.
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author | bendjmiller222 |
permlink | re-gavvet-re-dwinblood-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t184441145z |
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I am up for debating ANYTHING as long as people are civil and respectful to each other. I have posted an initial response... it's going to take me a bit to talk about this. You are welcome to chime in on anything I said. https://steemit.com/religion/@dwinblood/civil-response-inspired-by-gavvet-post-concerning-science-and-jesus-christ
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It wasn't so much editing as at the time the Council was formed all those books were known amongst the various Churches. Historically, the different Churches had various books that were used in worship. The Council attempted to find the **common** ground between all the Churches at the time, i.e. it was an attempt to determine what "mainstream" Christianity was based on how the Church had evolved over the course of 300 years. Now, I'm not sure *when* the various dead sea scrolls, the gnostic gospels, etc. were lost in antiquity (and subsequently found), but I can assure you that with this 'editing' of various books out of the (New American) Bible (not the KJV, as Luther edited books that did not appeal to his particular world view), that the early Church was only attempting to find **consensus** amongst all the factions.
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The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in the decade after WW-II and dated by secular archeologists to a couple hundred years before Christ. There significance is they said the same thing as the Bible on your grandma's coffee table. No changes in over 2000 years! So this puts to rest the idea that Scriptures must have been corrupted over time "because that's how humans always screw up". Clearly that didn't happen with the Bible.
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Interesting perspective. I agree that it is tough to trust any religion written by men, but the fact is that is all we have. All of the major world religions have been passed down by the written word of men. I choose to focus more on what I feel like the intent of religion is for us all. And that is to LOVE one another. Love your enemies just as you love your family. Love all people and all of God's creations. Even if you don't believe, or are not sure you believe in God. If you walk through life with love in your heart, you will be following in Gods path.
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If god wants us to love each other, why was he so cruel in the bible? http://i.imgur.com/IvtZBJg.jpg
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It is all we have is no reason to take it in hook line and sinker. We can read things without having to believe them fully. You and I could debate for example and you may say something I hadn't thought of before. I will then incorporate what you taught me in the exchange into my own world view. That does not mean I took EVERYTHING you said and incorporated it. We must be willing to look at all information for potential value, but we should never take EVERYTHING without thinking about it and making our own informed decision. The path I walk very likely would not work for you as well as it does me, so why would I want you to follow my path? Your path might go further than mine. ***Yeah that is kind of weird... look at those things like something you'd find in a fortune cookie.*** We know a lot that those that came before us do not know. There is evidence we have also lost some knowledge. When it really starts to become questionable though is when you really spread out and research a lot of religions. You'll find pretty much every story (including all of those about Jesus) had a historical figure in other religions that did those same things, before his existence. Sometimes thousands of years. It is almost like each new version of religion building up would incorporate the stories from the past, change some names, and write it as though it was happening then. In particular study the Egyptian Religion (particularly that of Horus) and the Hindu religion (Krishna). You will find startling similarities that predate Christ by very large amounts of time. ***I am not saying there is no value.*** I am just saying we should not blindly believe everything we read ***just because we were told we had to.***
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Don't think of it as an appeal to authority, think of it as a large number of credible eyewitness wrote down what they witnessed over a long term association with Jesus. Those accounts have been valued and preserved for your consideration. The Truth of Christianity is in those accounts in their original languages. The existence of many denominations merely means humans disagree on how to view them. Some are further off than others. I never object to any viewpoint that can be explained with an honest attempt to understand the original texts. The Council of Nicea called together hundreds of Christian leaders from around the Mediterranean to compare notes about what they had been teaching for several generations. How else do you recommend sorting out what properly traces back to the apostles vs. what got inserted falsely after the fact? This process actually continued for 500 years before universal agreement was achieved. The criterion applied was: "Show us proof that this document is traceable back to an original apostle or one of his assistants." That's not censorship, that's due diligence. Pointing out things like the burning of the library of Alexandria happened are irrelevant. Lots of bad things happened in history. This says nothing about the truth of any specific instance. It is true that the Roman church suppressed availability of the Scriptures for 1000 years until the printing press and the Protestant Reformation went back to the original Bible as authoritative. There are 5600 manuscripts dating back to the first few generations and these all agree. So claims of corruption and bad behavior by others after that time are irrelevant. We know with a high degree of certainty what the original eyewitnesses wrote.
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They have not been preserved though. The history is there showing they are edited, and even censored by men. It does not matter HOW MANY people you have that is still an APPEAL TO AUTHORITY. Does quantity of people dictate whether gravity is true or not? Any appeal to authority regardless of the source is a logical fallacy. And have you gone back further? Have you for example studied the Hindu Krishna which predates Christianity? Have you studied the Egyptians and the life story of Horus? If not... give it a look. I think you'll be surprised. And PLEASE don't take my word for it. Look for yourself. That is all I have done. I have a lot of bibles, and not one of them is exactly the same. :) In this instance I am referring to Christian based bibles. But yes everything you stated in the beginning still qualifies as an appeal to authority. "credible eyewitnesses". A common example of an appeal to authority is "I am a doctor, you can trust me." You should never believe something simply because someone else tells you that you should. You can CHOOSE to believe them, but it should not because they told you to, or because they have been given some label like LEADER, WISEMAN, PRIEST, GENIUS, SCIENTIST, or CREDIBLE. :)
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I'm not religious myself but I respect people's opinions on religion
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I'm looking forward to the next instalment.
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t174401098z |
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I hope I don't disappoint...
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I think that firs part of Zeitgeist The Movie completle explain all about Jesus https://youtu.be/k3Ya5qiiW6k?t=5m9s
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t174408093z |
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@gavvet how i mix science and faith or religion? faith is the truth while science is the living proof. So theyre basically in bond. Great article though.
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stan | 0 | 99,416,489,510 | 100% | ||
bendjmiller222 | 0 | 4,126,874,187 | 100% |
That's an interesting take I don't think I have heard before! What is your belief about the bible/christ if I may ask?
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"Without Proof" is literally in the definition of faith.
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http://pmrb.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/408242_3804304192798_850548532_n.jpg [click here to ENLARGE the picture ¯\_(ツ)_/¯](http://pmrb.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/408242_3804304192798_850548532_n.jpg)
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t175013528z |
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gekko | 0 | 1,172,021,982 | 100% | ||
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http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e5/e530f8897743ef5731f418b5eefce86cfad64fef8d9debad26e22e61c632da61.jpg
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actually according to wikipedia, it's not the same but a bit more interesting: "Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[7][8] or sometimes by a crab, and according to Plutarch's account (see Osiris) used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a golden phallus[9] to conceive her son (older Egyptian accounts have the penis of Osiris surviving). Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and who she knew would want to kill their son.[10] There Isis bore a divine son, Horus." So there you go pregnancy by "golden phallus". source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus The Bible does not mention anything about a golden phallus. So clearly this infographic is wrong.
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Every single point on that image is wrong. Every last one. I just replied meaning to correct one or two and realize not a single one was right.
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should be time for a sequel, no?
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author | btc-dialog |
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nice :D
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Horus/Jesus isn't that close? Half the things in that image are totally made up. Gerald Massey has a lot to answer for. Off the top of my head: * Horus wasn't conceived of a virgin (his mother hovered over Osiris golden phallus to conceive him but it's not referred to as virgin conception *anywhere*) * There are no three wise men in the story of Horus * Christ wasn't born on December 25th, it was moved to coincide with the winter festival. Originally it was celebrated in July. Christianity doesn't claim that's Christ's birthday, it claims to celebrate it then. Nowhere in the bible does it state "December 25th" * For that matter, neither was Horus. Horus' birth was during the *Epagomenal Days* which was a four day festival (of fertility, I believe) in the Egyptian calendar and it falls between August 24th and 28th. So I don't even know where they got that from * His birth was not heralded by a star * He was *not* taught in a temple as a child * There is *no such person* as Anup the Baptizer. Best I can figure it's another name for Anubis but that also doesn't make any sense. * Horus had four disciples. Later on he has 16 followers, and later still an unknown number join Horus for Mesnui (which was a large battle the details of which I cannot remember). * Horus performed miracles, but he didn't walk on the water. All Gods perform miracles to demonstrate their divinity whilst they're among men. He also didn't raise anyone called El-Azur-Us from the dead. * Not one of those names is accurate. Horus *was* called Avenger of his father, master of heaven, "great god" or "the great god" and a few others. The ones listed on your image are completely made up. * Horus wasn't crucified (he was bit my a serpent sent by Set) but even if he was it doesn't mean he died on a cross. I found a good quote googling *Crucifixion is the act of nailing, binding or impaling a living victim or sometimes a dead person to a cross, stake or a tree, whether for executing the body or for exposing the corpse.* Thousands of people were "crucified" but very few were done on a cross - a growing number are now arguing that not even Jesus was. It tended to be people nailed to big wooden X's from what we can tell. Ok so every single point in your image was wrong, I didn't realize when I started. Mithras/Jesus is a better comparison.
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Science recuses itself from having an opinion on anything that is not testable and repeatable. So rare interventions from God are going to be beyond its realm. However, many things that wind up in court concern one-time events that we cannot go back and repeat. Yet our courts do not hesitate to reach conclusions based on the credibility of one or more eyewitnesses.
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Some interventions from god should be testable. The biblical flood, for instance. If it really happened, it would have left a mark on our planet. Eyewitness accounts are considered the most unreliable form of evidence, by the way. People get things wrong all the time. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/
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json_metadata | "{"links": ["http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/"], "tags": ["religion"]}" |
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Yep. I have already stipulated that there is no intention to give your incontestable proof. But those eyewitness accounts have been enough for a billion or so people already. I agree that the Flood would certainly leave a mark ...if God wanted it to. But since it was clearly a supernatural event (where did all that extra water come from anyway?), it is just as likely that the scientific proof disappeared with the excess water. It's a delicate balancing act... leaving just enough evidence to satisfy those who are looking for Him but not enough for those who require iron clad proof.
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Eyewitnesses relate things from their perspective. There are always multiple perspectives. This needs to be born in mind when reviewing these types of accounts.
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Flood myths are very common in religion, it's been argued many times that there *was* a large flood but that it was in just the Middle East or a certain area of the middle east. I'm not sure how much work has been done on it recently, but it's certainly a common enough theory. These people didn't go very far, so it wouldn't take much to engulf their whole world.
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That's right! :-) As nicely explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcavPAFiG14
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Modern courts do not just refer to testimony of "reliable" witnesses. They also take to account all physical evidence from investigation and ask for opinion of experts in the field.
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True. But court's only weigh the evidence that is available. They don't fail to render a ruling because they don't have as much physical evidence or credible expert opinions as they would like..
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Sciene and religious are far from each others . but do you believe in ghost ? If you believe in ghost why cant you believe in jesus?
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Most atheists do not believe in ghosts.
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No, I don't believe in the boogy-man, ghosts, spirits, vampires, demons, Frankenstein, tooth-fairies, unicorns, or Santa clause, but.... If you were to provide me with enough evidence(as in continued reliability of providing effective results) then I will believe in the existence of any of these things.
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How can you make any kind of comparison if you are basing yourself in a book that has "versions"? Ffs jesus basically deflowered his mother.
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This may answer your question a bit http://bib.irr.org/has-bible-been-translated-reliably and for those who do believe, the critical non-negotiable parts are the same in all. Minor changes in tense or verbs etc is going to happen, but I agree that it seems confusing and if people solely look at verses out of context they seem to contradict themselves often. It is quite an interesting discussion in my opinion.
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It doesn't really answer anything since I literaly hate that book, it's simply words that people believe and offers all them fucking churches control.
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Cool!
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While I respect your right to believe however you choose I differ with you tagging this in the Science category. Basing something as having scientific proof or value by saying it is in the Bible just doesn't pass muster. Its the same thing as saying because something is in a Superman comic it must be true. There are many different religious, historical and scientific texts that were written thousands of years ago. Some are true, partly true or not true at all. I think using the Bible as a basis for scientific argument is a losing one. If you want to discuss Jesus and faith. Go for it! If you have other scientific evidence to base you arguments on please go forth. But using the Bible as a book of science is not such a good idea. There are way too many scientific holes in the text. That said I appreciate your post and point of view. It has obviously stimulated a conversation.
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Agreed. This shouldn't be under the science category.
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I'm evaluating its claims against well known scientific priciples for consistency... Just laying the groundwork so far perhaps you will find more science to your liking next week.
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I understand where you are coming from. I saw it as an invitation to debate. When you are offering such an invitation would you not offer it to those you would like to debate with? In such a case it would be appropriate for science. Religion is typically a HANDS OFF topic because people can be irrational, and emotional and it can get pretty hostile. He seems to be approaching it from a fairly respectful and civil perspective.
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author | dwinblood |
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Since the reply was directed at my comment, I believe I was civil and respectful. But I've always thought there were certain topics you should discuss on your home turf and religion is one of them. Nobody wants to go to a stripper club and have some evangelist ruin the fun by telling everybody they are going to hell if they don't repent and see the error of their ways. The OP said he was going to get whoop out some science but all he did was quote some Bible on us. Boring. That's not being hostile, it's just wasting time our time. Please use #Jesus #Religion #Bible #Christianity, etc. When somebody tags #puppies in their post and the post I end up reading is about quantum physics it is a disservice to puppies and physics.
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God is dead and we killed him.
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A group of scientists were chatting with God and said to him (we dont need you anymore, we can grow our own organs, clone humans, cure diseases there is nothing we cant do" God said ok make me a human being from sand, to which the scientists agreed with great enthusiasm, so God picked up a handful of sand as so did the scientist .....Hold on said God....what now said the scientists, to which God replied....you need to make your own sand first! :) Jesus is the savour no matter how people may try to disprove the fact.
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Well Said @mrgrey.. Love this post!!!
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permlink | re-mrgrey-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t191649076z |
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I wholeheartedly agree with your post and have thought about posting about some of the things christians believe/disbelieve. I think steemit is one of the few places that religion and other polarizing debates can be held without hatred. It's not up to you to force someone into believing anything, but to simply lay out what you believe and why and others are free to accept or refute this. Along with all religions, a select few can ruin the whole name for everyone. A group like the westboro baptist church that preaches hate towards soldiers and homosexuals does not practice the Love that Jesus preached about. Just because you may not agree on those issues doesn't mean you can't respect those with opposing beliefs. The same can be said of Isis or other Muslim affiliated groups shaming the many positive friendly Muslims throughout the US and world. The most controversial groups receive the most attention from the media and that is how people tend to perceive the stated group as a whole. Thank you for bringing this up in a place where everyone has the chance to make meaningful comments and those who post hate or are disrespectful can be silenced by the community as a whole.
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t182251737z |
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That's what it was like last time... lets see how it goes this time around... not much downvoting was required because the importance of reputation led to restraint and demonstrations of respect even where strong feelings were involved. I hope things haven't changed too much...
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permlink | re-bendjmiller222-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t183319537z |
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Jesus our High Priest Our Lord Our Savior he not only lives Among us he Lives within us,Glory Be to God Who Sent the Son Jesus to be our Savior Comforter and Best Friend,He loves us in Spite of our flaws and short Comings and By His Precious Holy Spirit he Changes us from Faith to Faith and Glory to Glory. http://coin-bit.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Jesus.gif
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Some interesting points made and I can see a good debate coming here. I wanted to comment, but then the comment became too long for the comment section. Please have a look at my argument in the post: [Does the Teleological argument prove the existence of God](https://steemit.com/religion/@jacor/does-the-teleology-prove-the-existence-of-god)
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t184331863z |
category | religion |
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<blockquote> There seem to be many claimed eyewitness accounts that these events indeed happened. These may be disputed or accepted depending from individual to individual. </blockquote> When we study how human brains work, we learn how unreliable eye-witness testimony actually is. For me, that falls well short of the criteria you asked for: <blockquote> we would need to see some pretty extraordinary evidence. </blockquote> I spent 30+ years in the Christian faith, including 6 in full-time ministry. I have my own reasons for <a href="https://steemit.com/religion/@lukestokes/losing-eternity">losing eternity</a>, but I do appreciate the respectful dialogue on the topic. I have friends and family who think it's a failing effort to attempt to "prove" the super natural because, by definition, it is outside of the natural which can be proven via observable, scientific means. That said, I'll still look forward to the ongoing discussion here. :)
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Science is about disproving a null hypothesis using objective data. This is bullshit. Here, educate yourself. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhlNSLQAFE
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t185453991z |
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I'll give you my upvote. Please reciprocate in my post https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@gustavopasquini/olympic-games-rio-2016-between-reality-and-hope
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t190923653z |
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why do people put images of Christ as if he was european?
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author | ronnieb |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t193543191z |
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Um, because the renaissance artists were European?
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permlink | re-ronnieb-re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t213714008z |
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Very thought-provoking concept of looking for a scientific basis for Christ as you have done. I think it will be an interesting discussion. However in my opinion a witness of Christ is found not only in the mind but in the heart as well. If it is true that we are here on earth to be tested and to learn and progress through our experiences, being handed a pure knowledge of Christ's divinity would be akin to cheating on the test. : ) Faith, or believing in something that is unseen but which is true is the other half of the equation. Now maybe some day science will catch up with that.
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author | bbrewer |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t194601331z |
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***Here's the inverse discussion*** https://steemit.com/science/@business/is-there-a-religious-basis-for-science
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permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t194905215z |
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As long as we are good human beings, and respect, help and care about others, you can believe in whatever you want. This is what I answer to people when I'm asked in what I believe. https://www.steemimg.com/images/2016/07/23/11481644805029222207165b7e6.png
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author | gaitan |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t201045289z |
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I don't know if there is a god or not but I know there is something more mightier than we are capable of to understand. I pray for the good in humanity :)
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author | timsaid |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t202244531z |
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Hey, men. as for me i am not a religious man. But i respect others mind!
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author | burmik123 |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t202953665z |
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@gavvet - here is my 2nd response... I actually answer your specific question I believe this time unlike my previous ramble which I consider a preamble. https://steemit.com/religion/@dwinblood/part-two-gavvet-reply-a-hypothesis-is-not-proof-in-science-jesus-science-debate-civil-and-invited
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author | dwinblood |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160731t204535271z |
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Hello @gavvet This mental gymnastic was extremely interesting for multiply reasons. However anybody depend on the background would like to support their own view. Me as a Christian myself, as a scientist myself I do believe in Jezus. I am looking forward for more mental gymnastics coming from you :)
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There are scientists engaged in this. This Oleg Maltsev
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I am not a fan of Religion, but i like the question. Im torn what to do? UPvote or novice?
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After reading your article I actually do not find anything scientific in your logic. I don't like debates and discussion and much rather have a dialog with you. To me religion makes no sense and feels like simple abuse and slavery by getting people to submit pretty much to a lie. From your article i gather that you believe in god and the christian religion in specifically. I wonder why? Can you explain why you believe ? I'd like to understand your point of view.
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Alright, no. This is fucking retarded. I want to believe this is an elaborate troll and you're just posting this to get replies from people who think you're an idiot. First of all, there's no evidence Jesus was real. Second, there's no evidence he raised anyone from the dead. Third, WHY WOULD INHERITANCE MATTER AT ALL? What the hell makes you think the holy spirit would pass down special holy genes? Are you implying the holy spirit ejaculated holy sperm inside the virgin mary? Because that's how genes are passed down, through sperm and eggs. Most Christians believe Jesus was conceived through some kind of magic, not literal holy jizz. When we're talking about spooky spirit pregnancy it's stupid to assume it would work just like a normal pregnancy. Fourth, if sin is just disobeying the ten commandments, does that mean punching your neighbor in the face for no reason is totally cool? Because that's not listed. There's thou shalt not kill, but no thou shalt not maim. Fifth, if Jesus is here to save us from chaos, why is there always so much drama at church? And finally... THERMODYNAMICS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. YOU CAN'T COMPARE SIN TO ENTROPY. PLEASE GO BACK TO SCHOOL. You don't even know what science is.
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I'm curious. What would you count as evidence? You want a CNN interview with him or something? How about a DNA sample and an FBI dossier containing all his intercepted emails? What exact kind of evidence from the first century could there be that you would not discount the same way. We've got every shred of the "emails" of people who knew Jesus well preserved in 5600 manuscripts from all over the Mediterranean and they all say the same thing. Inheritance matters because prophecy foretold that Jesus would be a descendant of King David. The people who knew Jesus certify that he was "of the house and lineage of David". You can trace that lineage back through Mary genetically or back through his "stepfather" Joseph legally. The ten commandments are derived from the Greatest Commandment, as Jesus explained: >Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, **Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.** On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (i.e. the Old Testament Scriptures). Then the Levites went on to derive hundreds of other laws to fill in more details for people who couldn't figure out how to regulate their behavior from first principles. Christians are expected to derive their behavior from those first principles - "That we love one another." Few of us do, but that is what is expected of us.
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OK, if you're discounting Christ, you have to discount about half the historical figures you can name. When it comes to ancient sourcing, mention of someone 30-40 years after their death is considered amazingly close. We have less than 0.00001% of the documents and records of the era, so sourcing of ancient figures is always difficult. There are entire kings, emperors and pharaohs we don't have record of until a century after their rule, yet no one says "oh they didn't exist" because the people who study that know how ancient sourcing works. There are battles that aren't recorded until nearly 200 years after they took place. Some *places* aren't mentioned *once* in any sources we can find, yet seem to have been major ports. The city of Chester in the UK was the biggest roman settlement during their occupation and it had an absolutely huge building at it's center that we honestly are baffled by. Evidence has been found of hugely lavish homes and the river in the city seems to have been the biggest port in the UK. The thing is, no one outside of history buffs knows about Chester and it's position in the Roman Empire and it's very very rarely talked about. Why? Because we have *one* mention of it in all the sources of the era, and it's thought that mention may actually be referring to **Man**chester not Chester. By the logic of "Christ didn't exist", nor did Chester. Christ existed - really that's consider a fact among 99.9% of historians and scholars. That 0.01% is very interesting, but even they acknowledge that their argument has flaws. The idea of Christ not existing is born of ignorance of how historical scholarship works - and you're accusing this poster of ignorance towards science. I don't mean this offensively, I'm just telling you that you're accusing this poster of something you're inadvertently demonstrating yourself.
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Hello, where did Jesus claim to be the "son" of God? Is it because he was born without a father? But, then Adam would have more right to be the "son" of God because he had not father and no mother. This is only logical. Furthermore, in the Bible God states that "Israel is my son, even my first born", Ex.4:22. So, where is Jesus? Is this not a misunderstanding of the position of Jesus? Yet, in Genesis 6:2-4, God talks about the "sons of God". I think "son" of God, in the context of that time, means a righteous person, a Godly person because there are other statements in the Bible where "son" of God is also mentioned. However, I do believe in Jesus, son of Mary, revere him and love him with ALL my heart. Also, I do believe that he was a REAL person, mighty, powerful and a righteous man of God.
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I [share about my faith](https://steemit.com/leadership/@strangerarray/conspire-to-inspire-chapter-4-simon-sinek) in Jesus Christ in my book [Conspire To Inspire](https://steemit.com/inspire/@strangerarray/introduction-to-conspire-to-inspire) free exclusively on #steemit .
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if you have a keyboard under your hands and a screen in front of your eyes, you would probably agree that someone has projected it. You could also state that the keyboard has built itself from a sort of chaos that was before the keyboard, and that the same happened for the monitor. But you wouldn't be considered in good health by most people. Still and yet, many people believes that our own being has born from some sort of random happenings. The other option is that, behind the human being, there is a project. If "Christ" ever existed, he would be the project, the archetype of human being. Like the project of the monitor or of the keyboard. This project, having freedom as one of his features, may have decided to live a life just like a normal human being. This to allow every human being to be able to become like him. For sure this could sound like a creative and imaginary story. Can we know it scientifically ? For sure we can't pretend to know scientifically that Christ has never existed. This would be a pretty big fallacy of our thinking, as "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" [L.Wittgenstein]: speaking of the non existance of something doesn't mean anything, because we can just actually say that we don't know something with this name. If there is a possibility to gain knowledge about Christ, for sure we cannot know this entity looking outside of ourselves. But we could know "the archetype of human" if we look inside of ourself, and we find something in our inner experience that is "I", but at the same time is in common with what is around us. This experience is the act of thinking. To examine in depth the likelihood of a similar experience i suggest to read "The Philosophy of Freedom" by Rudolf Steiner. The original title in german is " Die Philosophie der Freiheit", from which I inspired my nick.
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Rather then science history has a different story to tell, I might do a piece on this as we are now finding more about the history of the time, I studied Theology till I got kicked out of class for being atheist but that's another story.
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Really? I studied theology and biblical history and two of my three tutors were atheists. That's insane. Where was this?
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I think those looking for physical proof of something that happened about 2 thousand years ago will surely be disappointed. The problem with such "proof" is that it can be interpreted in any way that suits the observer. What do they want? DNA evidence? Most people looking for proof have only a limited understanding of what they are even looking for. No, the Bible isn't a history book, and is full of parables. As Galileo said, (I paraphrase) "The Bible tells us HOW to get to Heaven, not how the Heavens were made." The Bible doesn't prove God exists, neither does Science prove God *doesn't* exist. (I am planning a post about this.) The proof is in the lives of people who try to do good in this world. I have seen enough miracles this past year to see clearly God's hand in my life. Atheists look up at the night sky and see emptiness; I see the soul of God.
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Faith - an important component of human integrity , which stands next to such concepts as love and hope. Faith - an integral part of man that needs no proof , needs no scientific facts , needs no explanation - it just is , and it does not hide , it is like the air and sunlight rays .
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author | dispenser |
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In those days, anything that was superhuman could be done with advanced technologies. More advanced that even what we have today, whether it is walking on water or replicating fish and bread. There is evidence in ancient artwork that angels and such were otherworldly, meaning not from this world. There is a whole strain of thought that the story contained within the Bible (and other ancient scripts) suggests that we have been visited in the past by other world beings, in the sense of novels such as "Dune." As our technology grows, and we are able to levitate and create food from air (like in Star Trek) or even resurrect from death (in some medical cases, we already do), will more people begin to believe another story? Hard to say, given that faith still has persisted even throughout this last technologically advancing century.
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[My two cents on the matter](https://steemit.com/religion/@alexbeyman/the-fossil-argument-for-the-existence-of-a-historical-jesus).
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here do you have some answers to your questions https://steemit.com/jesus/@miguel12/the-biological-father-of-jesus Gospel is 100% symbolic, not history, is a book write by initiated and for initiated.
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You do realize that according to the bible jesus christ would have been from the middle east and look nothing like the picture. Furthermore the king james version was written by the kings clergy meant to rule over his people. Every country has a story to tell, every religion, every race, every tribe.
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They say jesus died on Friday... It took 3 days for him to resurrect... Place you hand out and count from Friday....you get 1. Saturday 2. Sunday. 3. Monday? But everyone goes to church on Sunday, The story's so tangled I know its not true.
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lol, What dos three days originate from may be the better question.
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Actually, no. All 12 predictions of his 3 days and 3 nights start with his betrayal and end with his resurrection. Thursday to Sunday. - "Saying, the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day." (Luke 9:22) - "Jesus said unto them, the Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of man; and they shall kill Him, and the third day He shall be raised again." (Matthew 17:22) - "and they shall mock Him, and shall scourge Him, and shall spit upon Him, and shall kill Him, and the third day He shall rise again." (Mark 10:34) [Link to all 12 Scriptures](http://www.blessedcause.org/BlessedCause%20Exclusives/Three%20Days%20and%20Nights.htm) NO WHERE does it only say, "The Son of man must die and the third day rise again" without listing the full sequence, including suffering. (there is one scripture which is a quote of what the Pharisees said, but of course, they had it wrong.)
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Jewish days begin at sunset... Day 1 Crucified about 3pm Friday afternoon Day 2 Saturday the Jewish Sabbath begins at sundown Friday evening Day 3 Begins at Sundown Saturday therefore rising on Sunday morning is the third day Christians change Jewish Sabbath from Last day of the week (Saturday commemorating day of rest in creation) to first day Sunday to commemorate resurrection
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http://www.sagennext.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Divide-and-conquer.gif
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yUCg0TASc
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Is there a scientific basis for a man having the ability to subvert the basic laws of reality? No, not really.
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Feel that I may have to write a post tomorrow to share different thoughts of so called "Jesus" / Yeshua / Christ / the son / the sun ...
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I was raised in a baptist church and have identified as a christian since I was about 12 years old. There were times my belief in God waned a bit or maybe even dried up completely. I have been a practicing massage therapist for about ten years and was first introduced to the concept of Chi in massage therapy school. At first, I was leery of dabbling with anything resembling the ocult so I shrugged off the lessons on Acient Chinese Theory and resolved that it was a bunch of mumbo jumbo that weirdos talked about but it really had no basis in reality. I was wrong. The idea of chi is supported time and time again by the laws of physics, Conservation of Mass-Energy: The total energy in a closed or isolated system is constant, no matter what happens.(physics.about.com) This, to me, totally aligns with the idea of chi. Chi being universal energy, a force that connects all living things. This is why i say my discovery of chi, for me, further solidifies the existence of God in the form of the holy spirit. An omnipotent omnipresent force, without which living things would not move. This is why i say that my coming to understand the characteristics of chi has given me a stronger belief in God. And physics, when looked at with the viewpoint that chi is a giant closed system of energy, supports the theory of chi. This may be a bit muddy,if so, it's because this is a mental project I have worked on for years but never seized the opportunity to fully expound. i will delve into each piece of this theory in the coming days and would love feedback, especially from physicists who could verify certain things and impart knowledge as it applies to this post. I hope this applies, when I started it seemed to but now I'm not so sure.
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Good Lord, I loved that.. I had no idea where you were going with it but I was pleasantly surprised. Being saved from disorder and chaos -- is scientific beauty, spiritually speaking. I want more now..
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Hi Gavvet! I made a post in response of yours and dan's post. Have a read here: https://steemit.com/religion/@princewahaj/jesus-christ-never-claimed-that-he-is-god-instead-it-is-mentioned-in-several-places-of-bible-to-worship-only-one-god-and-why
post_id | 392,407 |
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author | princewahaj |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t151846491z |
category | religion |
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This is were Jesus was baptized, in Jordan ![Site](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Bethany_(5).JPG)
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Some of my idea / thoughts / research https://steemit.com/jesus/@virtualgrowth/ideas-and-thoughts-on-of-jesus-christ-metaphor-symbolism-to-read-and-or-discuss
post_id | 399,199 |
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author | virtualgrowth |
permlink | re-gavvet-is-there-a-scientific-basis-for-jesus-christ-20160801t212001109z |
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The comments just let my regret for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ , people want proof before accepting Jesus , acceptance is faith without seeing ! After accepting Jesus into your life ask for your presence and want to see be able to not kneel ! both good and evil exists , different religions really confuses Us to follow your heart ! and not look at the real facts . Most people seek Jesus and God to think of their own benefit and get frustrated not to find it , God wants the strongest. on earth will only continue weak people who would not seek the true and unique God !
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I don't thing there will ever be any scientific basis for supernatural claims, sorry
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This post was incredibly thought-provoking, and got me thinking along similar lines. The result is my post, linked below, "Is there a mathematical basis for sin?" In it, I hat-tip you @gavvet and link to this piece. Thank you so much for provoking these thoughts! I'd love your reaction to the idea of a mathematical basis for sin. https://steemit.com/god/@daoine-sidhe/is-there-a-mathematical-basis-for-sin
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