We Love Animals, Especially Eating Them by goose

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· @goose ·
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We Love Animals, Especially Eating Them
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As a young child, I loved cats and dogs but ate pigs and cows. I didn't know that's what I was doing. I stopped wanting to eat animal flesh when I was a kid and I first found out that meat was the bodies of animals who were killed so I could eat them. I didn't stop eating it right away. It took me several years, because I really wanted to be “normal.” But I also wanted so much to be good. It hurt my mind that I couldn't reconcile being good with being normal. Although knowing that I was causing the deaths of others was enough for me to know it was wrong, it wasn't enough for me to resist the pull of wanting to do what a normal and obedient child was expected to do.

I made up my mind only after watching a family friend slowly bring lobsters to a boil. She didn't even boil the water first and then drop them in, which would have killed them more quickly. Instead she put them in a huge, cold pot of water and then slowly brought it to a boil. Half an hour later I could still hear them moving around in the pot, their claws slowly scratching at the sides. In my mind they were trying to escape, to climb out, or else they were clawing at the sides of the pot in agony. Thinking about their suffering as they died flipped the switch for me and made me realize I had to stop hurting animals no matter what it cost me personally. And what it cost me personally turned out to be very little.

Deciding to make major changes is usually harder than actually making them, and this was no exception. Even though I was trapped in a world where adults make the rules, I found that once my mind was made up, people around me adjusted fairly quickly. But I became increasingly maladjusted as I tried, and failed, to understand how other people knew the same things I did but didn't feel the same way about them. I didn't realize at the time that it wasn't just learning the facts that did it for me. It was learning the facts and then having a gut-wrenching emotional experience related to killing animals as well. 

So I understand the disconnect most people have, but not the lack of motivation to overcome it. How is it that otherwise good and kind people think their taste for someone else's flesh makes it okay to abuse and kill another living creature? Some people don't think animals suffer, but that's pretty unusual. Others think animals suffer but it doesn't matter. That's hard to stomach, but I get it. It's everyone else – the majority of the population – that I don't get. Most people would never harm a cat or a dog, but think nothing of harming pigs, cows and chickens. One of the things that has turned over and over in my mind is the question of why abuse means different things in the same contexts but with different animals.

There's not a whole lot of difference in the nervous systems of mammals. This means that, although farmed animals may experience the world differently than humans do, they have a similar ability to feel pain and pleasure, happiness, depression, fear and frustration. Although it is still unknown exactly how consciousness works in any animals – including human animals –  it's common knowledge in the scientific community that mammals, birds, elephants, and cetaceans are conscious and emotional animals. Mammals and birds have pretty sophisticated brains, but the most basic conscious experiences – those that determine whether someone feels enjoyment or agony – do not require a brain with anything close to human-like complexity. People who exploit mammals and birds do not deny this, though they often try to trivialize it.

The Farmer, the Scientist and the Judge
--------------------------------------------------
There's a serious disconnect between public opinion and what actually happens to animals – what people pay money to support. It's probably no coincidence that there's also quite a distance between the reality of animal treatment and what farmers say, and between what the public believes and wants and what the law allows.

**A farmer says**
“Most people don't understand animal husbandry. They don't realize it's normal. That it's not harming the animals... Abuse is different from animal husbandry... We don't break off the beaks of chickens. We burn off the tips.”

**A scientist says**
"There is now good morphological, neurophysiological and behavioral evidence that beak trimming leads to both acute and chronic pain. The morphological evidence is that the tip of the beak is richly innervated and has nociceptors or pain receptors. This means that cutting and heating the beak will lead to acute pain. In addition, it has been shown that as the nerve fibers in the amputated stump of the beak start to regenerate into the damaged tissue, neuromas [tumors] form. Neuromas are tiny tangled nerve masses that have been implicated in phantom limb pain (a type of chronic pain) in human beings.”
Our friend the farmer said, “Abuse is different from animal husbandry.” But what about when they are one and the same?

**A judge says**
 “An act which inflicts pain, even the great pain of mutilation, and which is cruel in the ordinary sense of the word” is permitted “whenever the purpose for which the act is done is to make the animal more serviceable for the use of man.” In other words, it's okay to inflict any amount of pain on a nonhuman animal as long as there is some benefit to humans. 

**A farmer says**
"So our animals can't turn around for the 2.5 years that they are in the stalls producing piglets. I don't know who asked the sow if she wanted to turn around.... The only real measure of their well-being we have is the number of piglets per birth, and that's at an all-time high." 

**A scientist says**
“Sows on concrete in confinement stalls suffer abuse according to all the Five Freedoms : 
lack of oral satisfaction; 
lack of thermal and physical comfort; 
pain and lameness from injuries, muscle weakness and osteoporosis; 
stress-related oral stereotypies; 
almost complete denial of normal maintenance behaviour (e.g. grooming, limb stretching). 
Because of their extreme cruelty, sow crates have been outlawed in some states, but such laws are for the benefit of the people who are bothered by animal suffering, and not for the sake of the animals themselves. In New Jersey, one of the states with the strictest animal welfare laws, a judge clarifies that the enactment and enforcement of the laws are not for the benefit of the animals themselves but for the benefit of humans.

**A judge says**
New Jersey state regulations on the treatment of animals raised for food, including such practices as gestation crates for pigs and debeaking chickens are “consistent with the meaning of the term ‘humane.’... The dispute before this court has nothing to do with anyone’s love for animals, or with the way in which any of us treats our pets; rather, it requires a balancing of the interests of people and organizations who would zealously safeguard the well-being of all animals … with the equally significant interest of those who make their living in animal husbandry.” 

OK, OK, you might be thinking. Enough about how animals are affected. Maybe human interests should take precedence over animal health and wellbeing. But if the situation for animals were really that bad, wouldn't someone say something? After all, when information that dramatically affects human welfare becomes known, it's clearly communicated to the public, right? 

Not always. When the U.S. Academy of Science “concluded that the only safe intake of trans fat is ‘zero,’” did they recommend that people stop eating trans fats? No. Why not? Their reasoning is that “it would be impractical to eliminate all trans fat from the diet, [so] the panel recommended that people consume as little trans fat as possible.” 

Trans fats occur naturally only in animal products, and the position of the U.S. Academy of Science was further clarified by a scientist on the panel:
“Well, we could tell people to become vegetarians. If we were truly basing this only on science, we would, but it is a bit extreme.”

So even scientists don't necessarily base their recommendations on science, even when human lives are stake. What hope do animals have?

What have we learned so far from farmers, scientists and judges? Abuse is not abuse if it's also animal husbandry. Things done to farm animals that are cruel in the ordinary sense of the word are not cruelty if humans benefit from it. Animal abuse matters only when it causes humans discomfort. And it would be unreasonable for scientists to base their recommendations on science. What's next? Animal cruelty law doesn't apply to animals because they aren't animals?

Sure. Why not?

The Animal Welfare Act 
--------------------------------
So animal agriculture harms animals, and many humans are upset by this. But what about all the  people who use cows, pigs, and chickens for a living? What can be done to account for their human interests? That's easy. Just exempt the animals they use from the Animal Welfare Act. 

“The AWA regulates the care and treatment of warmblooded animals, except those, such as farm animals, used for food, fiber, or other agricultural purposes.” Mice and rats, used in more than 90% of experiments, were also exempted. Because it would be unreasonable to apply the same science in their case as is applied for other animals. But why bother to exempt them, when you can just de-classify them as animals? 

After a 2002 amendment to the Animal Welfare Act, this is how “animal” is defined:
(g) The term “animal” means any live or dead dog, cat, monkey (nonhuman primate mammal), guinea pig, hamster, rabbit, or such other warm-blooded animal, as the Secretary may determine is being used, or is intended for use, for research, testing, experimentation, or exhibition purposes, or as a pet; but such term excludes (1) birds, rats of the genus Rattus, and mice of the genus Mus, bred for use in research, (2) horses not used for research purposes, and (3) other farm animals, such as, but not limited to livestock or poultry, used or intended for use as food or fiber, or livestock or poultry used or intended for use for improving animal nutrition, breeding, management, or production efficiency, or for improving the quality of food or fiber. With respect to a dog, the term means all dogs including those used for hunting, security, or breeding purposes.”

 Is it just me or is it kind of weird that experiments on learned helplessness on rats in the 1950s showed them to be highly sensitive psychologically, and then when the Animal Welfare Act came along in the 1960s they weren't classified as animals? One of the reasons rats are used in experiments is because they are so much like humans. Now after the 2002 amendment to the AWA (the version quoted above), they have been explictly excluded from the definition of “animal.” 

Animal exploiters often do or sponsor studies on the social and emotional lives of farmed or research animals in order to be able to more efficiently exploit them. The social lives of rats is even studied in order to develop more effective pesticides. So the people who use animals in abusive ways know better than anyone that animals are, in fact, animals. So, what is going on here?

Animal welfare studies conducted by animal exploiters
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Farmers do animal welfare studies all the time. But what do they study? They study things like whether an animal in a cage prefers to have straw in the cage or no straw. Not surprisingly, animals prefer cages with straw to cages without straw. But what does that really tell us? Is anyone looking at whether or not they would prefer not to be in a cage at all?

Well, yes. Sort of. There have been studies that look at animals' physical health and mortality rates in cages and outside of them. What have they found? They often report that chickens and pigs are healthier and less stressed inside cages than outside of them. Our farmer friend from above who informed us that abuse is not the same as animal husbandry warned his colleagues about the ignorance of the American public on the matter of freedom of movement and reported that, “Almost half of the U.S. population believe that animals have to be able to exhibit natural behaviors in order to have a high level of welfare.” 

Now, I find this pretty surprising. Not the fact that so much of the public thinks extreme confinement is bad for someone's welfare, but the fact that anyone who works with animals can suggest otherwise with a straight face. How do farmers manage to do this? They compare the health of caged animals to the health of free range animals. But just like the terms animal cruelty and humane, free range has its own special meaning in the world of animal agriculture. And by a special meaning, I mean no meaning. Literally, in the case of egg-laying hens. There is no legal definition. As a result, most “free range” animals are simply crammed into a windowless shed. They are just as crowded together as when they were in cages. The “free range” animals live in uncomfortably large groups and in such close proximity that it upsets their natural social order, the “pecking order” in the case of chickens. That, and the fact that their lungs are constantly burning from the methane they inhale and their bones are collapsing because of their unnatural size tend to make them a bit irritable. Chickens and pigs get stressed out in these environments and they start fighting and also injuring themselves. Farmers try to help them by mutilating them, slicing off the tips of beaks and cutting off teeth. But, alas, the animals still suffer more injuries in this environment than they do when they are locked in a cage that prevents them from moving at all. So kindly factory farmers have decided that in order to prevent the stress and injuries that result from the dangerous freedom of being crammed into a windowless shed, they should be caged for their own protection. Just like swaddling a baby. 

Public Opinion
--------------------
What do we as a society think about this? According to a 2008 survey, 81% of people in the U.S. realize that animals and humans have the same ability to feel pain, and in surveys conducted in 2012, more than 90% of people said they thought farm animals should be well cared for. According to an earlier Gallup poll,  25% of people in the United States said they thought nonhuman animals should have the same rights as humans.  That sounds like good news for animals. Nobody is cramming humans into cages and windowless sheds or killing them in their infancy to munch on their flesh. Yet of this group who thought nonhuman animals should have the same rights as humans, more than half opposed bans on hunting, 38% opposed banning product testing on animals, and 33% opposed stricter animal welfare laws. So as a society, we're a bit confused about this. 

Yet the hundreds of millions of dollars donated in the US every year to animal protection organizations and animal shelters shows that, as a society, we do care about animals and we're often willing to put our money where our mouths are. At least when those mouths are talking and not eating. We just don't always know what to do about it. Many of us think it's the responsibility of government or industry to do something about it. It's easy to feel like we don't have the responsibility, or that we don't have the power to change things ourselves. But we do have the power to change things as consumers. Even animal farmers say so when they discuss how consumer perceptions will influence agricultural practices. However, animal farmers are trying to make a living out of using animals, so the weight of their concern will always tip towards economic interests. And so will their attempts at public education.

What can we do?
------------------------
Animal lovers abound, and so do McDonald's restaurants. So what is going on here? Why is it standard industry practice, and perfectly legal, to treat cows, pigs and chickens in ways that would land someone in jail if it were done to humans, dogs or cats? 

Abuse is understood differently whether you are looking at it through the lens of economics, law, or, um, common sense. Law doesn't have a mind of its own and neither does economics, so we can't rely on them to think for us. If we care about ending abuse, we have to end it. The way to do that is simple: stop supporting it. Stop buying the products of abuse.
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@davidbrogan ·
@goose  Thanks for taking a stand and your honesty. Posts like these can create a lot of backlash and controversy, especially with those who enjoy their Big Macs and Ribs. 
It is definitely *not* alright with me that another sentient lifeform has to die in order for me to eat, just because I think it *tastes nice*. Abhorrent! 
I go with Gandhi... I don't want my body to be a cemetery for the carcasses of dead animals. 
I also believe in Karma, and that anyone eating flesh is absorbing the energy of the animal at the time of it's murder.... namely, negative and fearful. 
It is no longer an ice age folks. Eating meat is a choice, which, if most had to go out and actually hunt, kill, skin, gut etc. their dinner might think twice about it. 
I *love* (not) people who tell you they are animal lovers while sitting eating a steak. Contradiction much?
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@skum ·
“Others think animals suffer but it doesn't matter.”

I have often wondered how much the animals suffer just from the experience of being herded from the back of trucks into the line-up moving into the slaughter house. I believe it could be very stressful for them.
I think that there could be an argument made that it is in the interest of the meat factory to keep the animals as calm as is possible because of the legal issues that would ensue and also the affect stress would have on the meat itself.
I have wondered also how much we would change our ways if we could hook ourselves up to a machine which would allow us to experience the consciousness or perhaps the emotions of an animal we were watching suffer.

“Most people would never harm a cat or a dog, but think nothing of harming pigs, cows and chickens.”

I work with livestock and I can say personally that my job is animal welfare because stressed animals are not good for business. It is critical to be humane to the animals and not doing so gets you fired very fast.

“…it's common knowledge in the scientific community that mammals, birds, elephants, and cetaceans are conscious and emotional animals. “

I agree. It breaks my heart when I see a bird standing next to its injured/killed mate as oncoming traffic miss hitting it by only inches.

“It's probably no coincidence that there's also quite a distance between the reality of animal treatment and what farmers say, and between what the public believes and wants and what the law allows.”

I think on a humane level most farmers are not abusing animals to the best of their understanding. From my experience there is always some idiot who is cruel to animals. 

“A farmer says
“Most people don't understand animal husbandry. They don't realize it's normal. That it's not harming the animals... Abuse is different from animal husbandry... We don't break off the beaks of chickens. We burn off the tips.””

The way that the beaks are trimmed off nowadays is done without touching the nerves of the chicken. To not trim the beaks leads to issues as the chicken grows older and the top and lower beak do not grow uniform which leads to problems with the chicken not being able to feed itself well. Also chickens often have a tendency to peck at each other both in general and during mating and it would be cruel to not trim the beak to prevent this.

"There is now good morphological, neurophysiological and behavioral evidence that beak trimming leads to both acute and chronic pain. The morphological evidence is that the tip of the beak is richly innervated and has nociceptors or pain receptors.”

I was not aware of this, thanks.

“As a result, most “free range” animals are simply crammed into a windowless shed.”

I am pretty sure that free range chickens by definition are actually able to leave the shed at their own free will during the day and forage around in the grass. They come back inside the shed of their own choice before night time.

“That, and the fact that their lungs are constantly burning from the methane they inhale and their bones are collapsing because of their unnatural size tend to make them a bit irritable.”

This is not true. I think what you are referring to is the accumulation of ammonia in the air that the chickens breathe. I can’t speak for the animal welfare acts in other countries but here ammonia has to be maintained at a zero detectable level. Chickens that are exposed to high levels of ammonia can have all sorts of negative consequences such as, lung and throat burn, eye burn and secondary infections from the lungs being over powered, resulting in the mucus barrier not doing its job.
As for the bones breaking, this does happen and any sick, injured or lame chickens must be culled by cervical dislocation which is an instant death. The animal welfare act is very clear on these things and the fines are substantial, like hundreds of thousands of dollars here.

“However, animal farmers are trying to make a living out of using animals, so the weight of their concern will always tip towards economic interests. And so will their attempts at public education.”

I am not sure that this is correct. I can say that where I am the animal welfare laws aren’t influenced by the farmers. The farmers have to adhere to the legislation drawn up by bodies such as the RSPCA. I think perhaps the shear size of the meat industry (as in the companies) could have a significant impact on the legislation perhaps due to being campaign contributers.

“Animal lovers abound, and so do McDonald's restaurants. So what is going on here? Why is it standard industry practice, and perfectly legal, to treat cows, pigs and chickens in ways that would land someone in jail if it were done to humans, dogs or cats?”

I have to agree that there is no place for cruelty in the meat industry and my person opinion is that the more debate we all have about it, the better the industry can become. Companies are hit hard when consumers vote with their money and the will listen.

Thank you for your post. You have thought about this a lot and I can see it matter much to you. Keep on speaking your mind, only good can come from it.
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@goose ·
“It's probably no coincidence that there's also quite a distance between the reality of animal treatment and what farmers say, and between what the public believes and wants and what the law allows.”

"I think on a humane level most farmers are not abusing animals to the best of their understanding. From my experience there is always some idiot who is cruel to animals."

At least in the United States, there are enormously powerful  animal agriculture lobbying groups with the goal of controlling the message to the public. Their conferences are often videotaped and some of the speakers appear sociopathic in how they discuss painful and stressful practices and how they are going to spin the message about them to the public. I realize there are a few small family farms out there who try to treat the animals well, but more than 90% of animal products come from large companies who run enormous factory farms with the only goal of maximizing profits. They screw over a lot of small farmers as well as they try to absorb them,demand huge capital investments by the farmers, and then drop them a few years later if the farm is no longer on a convenient route. 

Also, I would argue that many standard industry practices are abusive according to the common sense definition of the term. It's just that the law allows it. Would it be legal to keep dogs or humans in those conditions?

It's my understanding that it would not be profitable to treat the animals well --- let them live in normal family and social groups and engage in natural behavior, for instance. But even in such an ideal situation, why are we confining and killing other sentient beings who have lives that matter to them? I don't want to punish farmers, but I would like to see some kind of subsidies for them to transition to some other way of making a living.  People sometimes object that the animal agriculture industry is too huge a part of the U.S. economy (I don't know about the UK or elsewhere) that it would destroy the economy if it were ended. But it is a much, much smaller part of the economy than human slavery ever was, so  it is certainly feasible, and it obviously wouldn't happen overnight.

Thanks for the conversation.
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