RE: Weekly Newsletter - 4th edition by mirella

Viewing a response to: @cahlen/re-vegansofsteemit-weekly-newsletter-4th-edition-20180910t022546981z

vegan · @mirella · Sep 10 '18

$0.05

If you say that ''vegans are correct about the plants feeling pain not being a valid argument'' and then that ''they feel suffering as intensely as us..'' it sounds like you are contradicting yourself. 
Yes, plants are extremely intelligent, but there are various forms of intelligence in nature. In humans there is emotional, intellectual, biological, etc. 
What is primitive/unintelligent is the blood shedding and deliberate torture of innocent beings at the hands of ''intellectual''beings, the human'kind'.

👍 cahlen

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@cahlen · Sep 10 '18 (edited)

I am not contradicting myself, so I suspect it's not clear what I'm saying. 

I suspect plants feel pain when harvested and consumed, but if I don't eat them I will die, so I will eat them anyway.  Animals definitely feel pain when harvested (and even while being farmed) but I don't need to eat them to survive. 

I did not choose to live in a world where I must kill to live, but I will choose to survive anyway while also attempting to minimize the inevitable suffering which results.

It'd be great if it turned out to be true that plants don't suffer, but it feels like we're kidding ourselves to claim to know for certain that they don't. We simply don't know that for sure, and my research leads me to believe they probably do.

👍 evecab, mirella

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@mirella · Sep 10 '18

$0.05

I understand what you're saying. Though I have no doubt plants have a powerful energy system, if I don't pick an apple to eat it, it will fall to the ground anyway. If I don't pick the grapes from the vine, they will wither anyway, same goes for lettuce, etc. If  I don't 'pick' a cow, it most certainly will carry on living.

👍 cahlen, dan47

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@cahlen · Sep 10 '18

I don't believe fruits suffer. I'm talking about the plants themselves (i.e. eating leaves, roots, etc.).

👍 mirella

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5 replies

@evecab · Sep 10 '18

$0.05

I sure hope they don't suffer @cahlen. I'm not a scientist but from what I understand they can have defense systems and chemical reactions without actually being conscious...I don't know if plants are self aware. Maybe science will tell us more in the future.

👍 cahlen

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@cahlen · Sep 10 '18

I hope they don't either. However, science does not understand how biology generates conscious experience, and I suspect it never will.

Consider aliens coming upon a man with "locked in syndrome", where he can feel and sense his environment normally but is completely unable to act, speak, etc. They could burn him and measure his chemical response (which is similar to plants), but they may ultimately conclude he felt no pain because he did not protest, when in fact he felt it very intensely.

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