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Only-Upvote-Others-Athon - Join Up, It's Free :) by krnel

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· @krnel ·
$160.16
Only-Upvote-Others-Athon - Join Up, It's Free :)
The behavior we exemplify shows what we put first. Are you here for the "social" media first, or for the money first?

If we buy STEEM -- or earn STEEM -- and upvote every single one of our own posts and comments, we are trying to reward ourselves without any evaluation of the content, just because it's us. That is blind upvoting. Would you upvote all of someone else's comments? I don't think so... Yet many people are looking at the $money$ and trying to get rewards. That's what's motivating their behavior to self-vote everything.

When we vote on other posts and comments, we are saying we value the content and want to reward it in some way as a thank you, to show gratitude or appreciation -- or something like that usually. This motive is not always present, as curation rewards also drive people to focus on money first and simply vote to try to get curation rewards instead of evaluating the content for the content itself.

Of course we like what we post/comment and want to get appreciated and even rewarded for it. But if your voting for yourself, then it's not someone who is actually appreciating and rewarding you, but you're just doing it to yourself. Is there really that much value and appreciation for simply voting and rewarding ourselves? Or does the value and appreciation for our posts/comments actually come from others? 

What would you like a social media platform to be? A place where content is rewarded because it's evaluated and appreciated by others? Or a place where the content doesn't really matter since much of the user-base is motivated by money to reward themselves, not primarily motivated into developing social media content, posts and comments to get rewarded when others deem it. One is where we let others decide what we get for what we do rather than us saying "I want to give myself more money".

One thing we need to ask ourselves is if we want to use our power to value, appreciate and reward others more than we want to value, appreciate and reward our own content. Then, to what extent to we apply this? 

Pay-to-play upvoting ourselves also undermines the purpose of having others actually evaluate our content to determine whether something gets a vote, popularity, visibility and rewards. Buying an upvote to get rewarded is part of the mindset that is undermining the original purpose of social media where people evaluate other content. Just pay to get votes and rewards no matter the content being appreciated by others or not. Money becomes the primary drive for our voting behavior, not the content driving our behavior to appreciate and vote -- or not.

On Steemit the evaluations generate upvotes and rewards. When we just upvote and give ourselves rewards, it cheapens the "spirit" of social media and Steemit. People want to self-reward themselves, and others want to be paid for their votes. What happens if we all decide that since others are not giving their votes for free, then neither should any of us, and we all charge to give votes to others? Whether it's everyone or just a few people, the principle of how pay-to-play affects the operation of a platform is the same, it's just less visible when it's still smaller and has fewer effects in the short-term. Money changes everything. Improper behavior is often not seen by many until long-term effects set in.

If we want to make Steemit a place where the content reward distribution is based on people evaluating the content of others, then we need to stop putting short-term personal money-gains first in our behavior on the platform. I didn't used to vote on my own comments, and I didn't start to after HF19. I used to auto-vote my own posts, but stopped doing that before HF19 was released. I'm glad I did. I don't get as many rewards, but my votes go to others, not to myself.

I invite others to change their behavior as required, and only upvote others. 

![upvoted.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmVEFkHPekDPEpZpgsccmcD8cJAAimCMzSPKgnkXN3pGS1/upvoted.jpg)

We can each set a better example of what Steemit can be. You don't get paid to change your voting behavior ;), but you get to know that you are working for the long-term benefit of the platform as an honest evaluation of content, like social media should be (at least in my understanding the social media should drive money, not the money driving the social media). I think that's better, not to make this a place where money drives us to vote for ourselves to get more of the money pie, or pay others to vote for us to get more of the money pie.

----
#### Thank you for your time and attention! I appreciate the knowledge reaching more people. Take care. Peace.
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 235 others
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@eroche ·
This is a tough one. I think minnows should continue to upvote their own posts but as your voting power increases you should think more carefully of the consequences.
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@ghulammujtaba ·
Are there any consequences of self voting?
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@reddust ·
If you abuse self voting you'll get flagged by a bot which will impact rewards and your reputation score.
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@valued-customer ·
Self voting one's own comments is considered bad by many people.  I consider it sad, and the result of not understanding that Steemit is about growing a community.  

People that think it's bad will not follow you if you do it.  Since this is a blockchain, every self vote remains permanently visible to anyone that looks.  

People do admire others that are helpful, and altruistic, and anything you do like that is also on the blockchain forever.

Consider that @krnel's post is upvoted because he is encouraging the community to help each other, rather than simply self voting himself to extract as much from the rewards pool as possible, and you will see a perfect example of what I am talking about (not trying to blow your head up @krnel =p)

Good luck!
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@richq11 ·
$0.48
I auto-upvote my own posts for one reason. I'm 71 years old and this is my only source of income. If I don't earn, I don't have a roof over my head... If that's self-serving, oh well. On the other issue, I have never upvoted one of my own comments.
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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@ghulammujtaba ·
I have seen several people with a reputation of 70 giving self vote to their blogs, so I guess no issue!
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@richq11 ·
I was talking about my age!
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@writewords ·
$0.06
Huge respect to you for using this site asa 71 year old person. God Bless you and here's an upvote & a follow.
πŸ‘  ,
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@richq11 ·
Thanks... If you like horror and/or conspiracy stories, check out my blog... The Night Gods II
πŸ‘  
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@spaceguard ·
True Flip {ICO} - Already running a transparent blockchain lottery! Bomb! Bonus 20%! Hurry! :)
The platform is already working and making a profit :)
https://steemit.com/ico/@happycoin/true-flip-ico-already-running-a-transparent-blockchain-lottery-bomb-bonus-20-hurry
https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://gifyu.com/images/20_600x200.gif
πŸ‘  ,
πŸ‘Ž  , ,
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vote details (5)
@correctdrop · (edited)
.
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@ackza ·
$0.07
bro i caught u using a meme twice
u cant be lazy
ur making this meme stale!

u wont win anymore giveaways if u dont find new memes!
i takememe freshness  seriously!
https://media.tenor.com/images/24173c83af411794187ae4279e4364b1/tenor.gif
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@mythocurrency ·
$0.06
I upvoted you because my father is in the exact situation -- although he isn't as savvy as you are. I help him whenever I can, and I hope someone is doing the same for you. Much respect.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@richq11 ·
$0.04
I spend about 4-6 hours writing my stories every day... that's where I need the upvotes! Thanks for your support... Upvoted & followed!
πŸ‘  ,
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@illglory ·
Say that brother! πŸ™
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@isaac.rodebush ·
$0.17
You go @richq11 I wish you the best in all you do! :)
πŸ‘  ,
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@richq11 ·
$0.15
Thanks!
πŸ‘  ,
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@jars ·
$0.06
For staying current with the technology and demonstrating continuous learning, I upvoted you.
πŸ‘  ,
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@richq11 ·
Thanks... I don't know how current I am on the tech side, but I try. I'm a writer and to me, this is just a confusing typewriter lol!
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@jatala ·
I Give you some Love (upvote)granpa
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@on247 ·
It doesent do much unless you have significant steem power  , so for the most part it doesent affect the network  . Not a problem
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@caspell ·
Nice information, thanks.
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@h2kgraphy ·
Excellent post, support your opinion, greetings from venezuela.
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@ghulammujtaba ·
$0.09
I agree to the most part of your post, I guess for a newbies, upvoting their own blogs should not be taken negative. After all, we put our efforts to write a post and in return get some pennies for our efforts that includes our own upvote. I know we have to be patient and shouldn't be thinking about the money for the next 6 or 7 months but my question to all the Dolphins, Whales etc, how many upvotes they give on other's blogs?
I understand they have been very busy in creating their own content but don't you think that there should be a balance?
πŸ‘  , ,
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@writewords ·
I'm with you. That said, I got a whopper of a $25 upvote on a comment recently. Couldnmt believe it.
πŸ‘  
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@ghulammujtaba ·
You are then lucky dude, newbies have to take help from posts like booster and randowhale to atleast get something for the efforts they put
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@krnel ·
If you understand the principle of why it's best not to self-vote, then there are no real justifications, only excuses such as being new to the platform. But I get it, to get more SP so that you vote matters more, you want to get curation rewards for your own posts, no matter how small hehe. What if there were no more self-votes possible? Would that make you not post, or not like Steemit, because you couldn't upvote yourself? Maybe some dislike now because you have that feature, but for new people they would be fine with it because it's not even a feature they could use. Thanks for the feedback.
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@reddust ·
$0.10
I wouldn't mind the self voting removed for root posts as well as comments. I never self vote my comments unless I want to make a point and I only write one or two posts a day. The  rest of my sp goes to my commenters on my root posts and voting people who need encouragement, voting for people who support me and produce quality posts, and voting for new people who produce quality posts. I thought the self voting would be removed with the last hardfork because of the abuse that would ensue...for now I am upvoting my posts because they are awesome and deserve my sp! I also support a minnow group with loaning some sp...I am big enough to do that!
πŸ‘  
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@shehryar ·
$0.27
Thats easier to say for someone who gets 274$ for just 30 votes. We minnows dont earn much from it. thats why we vote ourselves. I hope you understand my point
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@writewords ·
I certainy do and I do think it is a bit insensitive for someone so affluent to be critical of others for seeking the very thing they likely have begun to take for granted.
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@transhuman · (edited)
$0.14
I am a fan of @krnel because he does great stuff. However, this is same old, same old... 

The 1% have 99% of the wealth and they expect the 99% with 1% of the wealth to do all the heavy lifting  and pay for it all. One aspect ignored here is that some of us don't have money to throw around at others. We have a burden and moral obligation to keep ourselves alive first. This is the fundamental order of nature. 

The rich want to devour the poor and then ask them to be altruists for the sake of "social media". This article needs to be directed at greedy whales who do a lot more damage than minnows scuffling for nickles and dimes. A minnows actions are mostly meaningless, but whales distributing hundreds and thousands of dollars daily in a grand scheme to fool the bottom of the food chain into thinking it's all about skill and talent? P.T. Barnum once said there is a sucker born every minute. Around here it's more like every three seconds.
πŸ‘  , , , ,
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@ghulammujtaba ·
We all will be big one day for sure!
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@krnel · (edited)
LOL. You think I get voted by the same high SP people each time? No. Some people saw it and liked it, and not my others posts hehe. You don't earn much because you just started and need to get noticed for the content you put out. It can take time, for some it's quicker. Some people have accounts that are newer than min and make hundreds per post each day.
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@valued-customer ·
@krnel was a minnow once too.  I am a Krill now, lol.  If you are only here for money, you won't receive the most valuable thing Steemit has to offer, which is community.  

Consider that you can cast ~10 votes a day, but if you attract 10 followers, they can cast 100.  It is far more profitable, even only in terms of money, to cast your votes for others, because they have far more votes they can cast for you.
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@discordia ·
<p>This comment gets a 2.08 % upvote thanks to @shehryar - Hail Eris !</p>
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@booster ·
<p>This comment has received a 0.12 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @shehryar.</p>
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@trendo ·
$0.08
Yes self voting kinda ruins everything. Too many people are in here for the money. I'm happy that there are people like you who wany to contribute to the community and grow it everyday :)
πŸ‘  , ,
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@krnel ·
Thanks for the feedback and support :)
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@evelyniroh · (edited)
$0.13
You are right.. I see no reason why one would upvote his or her post.. Leave the money aside. Resteemd this so people will learn
πŸ‘  
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@ghulammujtaba ·
You will find one reason on the comment posted by @richq11 and I guess its a genuine one!
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@krnel ·
Thanks for the support :)
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@writewords ·
$2.24
Bro, can't even finishing reading this w/o confessing this is me ur talking about. I feel like a jerk now that you put it the way you did but you're right. 

Most of my self-votes are to get my comment in the right place bc generally on the web people don't scroll that much. 

Your point is well-taken. If I slow dowm and use Steemit to promote the good instead of my own Ego and fear, we'll all be better off.
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@thecoach ·
$0.20
I think as long money is involved we always will have people who are here only to earn it. 

I did the same... Upvote my own comments to change the order. Like many people here already said, I think it is okay for minnows. And of course you shouldn't vote somehing banal like "cool post, bro!"
On Steemit I think more about what I write because I want to earn my own upvote. 

You deserved an Upvote Mr @writewords.
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@writewords ·
Lots of kindness coming my way... i'm really glad this new perspective is clear to me.
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@krnel ·
$0.16
I like you're honest reflection upon the matter, gave you a 100% upvote for that. Thanks for the feedback :)
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@writewords · (edited)
Bro, just seeing this comment. Funny how life / Steemit works. When you don't try to make money is when you typically make it -- Thank you so much for the full-power upvote!
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@milsol ·
$0.15
You are setting a perfect example of taking opinions in a positive way and making the change @writewords.  Upvoted your reply :).
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@writewords ·
Thank you @milsol.
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@truthforce · (edited)
Don't feel like a jerk though. Don't just upvote everything you do. Upvote some of your own stuff sometimes, but try to make an effort to upvote others. I just gave you a 100% upvote for like a dollar for your honesty.

**If you need to make your comment stand out there isn't anything wrong with upvoting that if the comment is well thought out or a good response to the topic. If you are upvoting spam and low effort comments try to work on that and make your comments better.**

You actually get a decent amount of followers if you write out a good comment with some length. People like to read stuff. I go on reddit and for hours just read what others typed and i usually don't even contribute, but here I do because I am building a following at the same time :)
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@writewords ·
Thank you so much for your big ole upvote -- totallu agree with everything you said. Basically deliver value or don't post. Something to that effect. Even a compliment can lift the spirits... πŸ™πŸ»πŸ™ŒπŸ»
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@heart-to-heart ·
$0.87
I think you deserve a pat on the back for owning your behavior like this. It takes a lot of courage to self evaluate and decide to change something you're used to. 
I noticed you called yourself a "jerk" but I don't think you should lay any judgments against yourself, it's been popularized and promoted to do just that and at least you're seeing the other side to it and deciding to spread your love yourself :)
Steemit is a great community full of love and encouragement, this post is an a perfect example of that. Kudos to you friend for your insight!
XO
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@writewords ·
thank you for your kind words I'll take everything you said to ❀️
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@bhavnapatel68 ·
$0.65
Thank you @krnel for this post. It makes a lot of sense. I agree with upvoting our own content and pulling from the pool. Here on I might change my upvote strategy just like I stop auto-upvote too. And without reading I do not want to upvote anyone. I am against this auto system as it takes away the full right of a person who is reading the content and taking their decision. See if we can make changes in that please.
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@mythocurrency ·
$0.06
Upvoted you for actually reading his post and responding. Thank you for participating.
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@krnel ·
Thanks for additional information, well thought out response. I agree, I see that too :)
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@swssmarketing ·
you have the good point of the vision of Steemit, unfortunately  there is now way people stop doing self vote, it is good for Steemit for now anyway. This is why more and more people coming into Steemit.
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@tvulgaris ·
If you're meaning "there is no way for people to stop upvoting themselves", that is not true, but I'm not understanding what you ARE meaning to say .
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@zetzero ·
>If we want to make Steemit a place where the content reward distribution is based on people evaluating the content of others, then we need to stop putting short-term personal money-gains first in our behavior on the platform.  

It should be carved in stone.
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@valued-customer ·
It should be written in code.
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@drpuffnstuff ·
It can be with a blockchain constitution! maybe...
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@nakedchef89 ·
Thanks for reading, you can follow me here for more articles: @nakedchef89
πŸ‘Ž  
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@krnel ·
Stop spamming comments for people to go to your blog. Thanks.
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@lautenglye ·
human always take advantages of something....hehehehe...
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@clixmoney ·
we are forced to upvote ourselves when you see people sharing stupid pictures and earning a lot and you spend almost half our in writing that post, when you see people commenting and their stupid comment goes up because they upvoted it with half dollar or more, when you see a girl earning a lot just because she is a girl, when you see people joined just few days ago and get  a lot just because they are living in a famous country ect ...! 

we have no choice except upvoting  our selfs and gathering that steem power by converting  all our steem dollar to it
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@tvulgaris ·
Not "forced", but that's a rational decision.
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@valued-customer ·
I suggest you consider instead of what appears to be envy of other's success and desperation for votes, to build your community by, as you have here, commenting relevantly on posts you are interested in, and attracting the votes of others to your posts by first voting on theirs.

People like to reciprocate votes.  They don't always, but some do, and those people are the ones that are valuable to have found.  Also, when you comment on others posts you are interested in, you are likely talking to folks that are interested in what you have to say, and growing a community is far more profitable (and I'm not only talking about money) than self voting - unless you have significant holdings of SP.
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@krnel ·
Go along to get along, eh? lol. Your name says a lot about your motivation, clix money. I've made posts that took several hours, text, and audio into video, and plenty of posts got more rewards. That's just the way it is, as we don't get to choose what other people vote on or like.
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@clixmoney ·
I am on steemit just one month, you are on steemit almost a year, it's a big deference ! if I was here from that time of course I will be famous and strong like you,  my login is related to clixsense, it's the first ptc website where I earned money online ! this why I called my self like this it's not related to what you think ! and I have a youtube channel clixmoney also : https://www.youtube.com/c/clixmoney

so I am sure about what I am saying because I see that, I am not lucky like you because I didn't know about steemit one year ago + you are maybe a native speaker, I am not !
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@anis33 ·
interesting, the new ones, Not of choice.
If he does not vote,Nobody notices them Even with Beautiful publication.
good continuation
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@gregario ·
If I understood correctly, this is an interesting view of the other side of the coin. If not even yourself will vote the post, nobody will! You definitely have a point. We swim in an ocen of selfpromotion, inside and outside of Steemit.
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@mikenevitt ·
$0.15
Your right in what you say , I do vote for myself but I also vote for others and their replys but it does feel better when you receive a vote from someone else. Good read thank you mike
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@krnel ·
You're welcome, and thanks for your feedback as well ;)
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@pornstarshourly ·
I'm broke as shit so.. 
plus my content is A1
πŸ‘  
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@gregario ·
Made me laugh!
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@lpfaust ·
$0.37
In recent times I've rethought upvoting my own posts ad have chosen to instead use 100% vote power upvotes for those who choose to comment on my posts. As time goes on and more  choose to comment, I may have to reduce my vote power simply to reward as many as possible. 

After I have taken care of  my readers who comment, I generally go under the new tab and begin looking for something to vote on and vote 100% until it's time to recharge.
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@stackin ·
Love that concept πŸ™ŒπŸΌπŸ™ŒπŸΌ
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@ghulammujtaba ·
I hope everyone starts doing the same!
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@krnel ·
$0.49
Nice, I do similar. Replies then new posts. :)
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@tonyr ·
$0.19
Great post again @krnel. 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I agree with them but must admit I did use the new voting bot by@ausbitbank today to see how it worked but I never upvote my own comments.

I personally don't see the satisfaction in voting for yourself and rewarding yourself. The true satisfaction comes when you know that your peers have rewarded you for a positive experience.

Hope your day is going well!
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@deirdyweirdy ·
I agree with you @tonyr. We were always taught as kids that 'self-praise is no praise'. Satisfaction comes from others valuing your work.
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@tonyr ·
Cheers @deirdyweirdy! I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my comment!

Hope your day is going well!
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@krnel ·
>The true satisfaction comes when you know that your peers have rewarded you for a positive experience.

Indeed :)
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@stackin · (edited)
I like the 80/20 rule... I upvote 80% my peeps and 20% myself when I post. I called it my golden rule 😬😎
πŸ‘  , ,
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@team101 ·
I have tested many ways of voting.  I usually try to vote for what I feel merits my up vote but have early on voted on some of my stuff.  That is as I remember,  and, at 80 years old could have had a "senior moment" and not remember at all.  LOL
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@hisilverstacker ·
upvoted, resteemed
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@cryptodata ·
$0.19
Great post! Many times people are just concerned about themselves. They see "money" and become completely blinded from everything else. Steemit should be a community of honest interaction and connection between one another. We need to work together to spread that to the new users coming on board as well. If everyone thinks this way, it'll be a much better community that everyone can enjoy. Thanks for sharing :)
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@krnel ·
Thanks for reading and providing feedback. Good to see a similar vision ;)
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@hisilverstacker ·
$0.06
posting, upvoting, great content and having a steem it community in any subject is the fun to SOCIAL MEDIA in STEEM IT...THE MONEY IS JUST THE ICING ON THE CAKE..
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@theblindsquirl ·
$0.22
@krnel thanks for taking a stand on this out in the open.

I unchecked the upvote post box after HF19 because my VP dwindled too fast and I felt bad when I could only offer a 0.07 vote for someone who did a great job.

I've also stopped upvoting comments to get them towards the top so people will read them. (Cut me some slack on that one brah, I've been here like 7 weeks.) I've seen that the really good people here ***do*** in fact read down through the comments. I've also seen that some people will disregard your comments no matter where they are in the list.

I don't know how to deal with the self & circular voting. I don't see anyone having anything to say that will make these people, "Come to Jesus" and I quickly grew tired of taunting them. It was fun at first.
πŸ‘  ,
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@krnel ·
$0.03
Good stuff, nice to see similar mindsets operating on Steemit :)
πŸ‘  
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@theblindsquirl ·
I think I got more out of that exchange than you did, but it's comforting to see that there are decent people who give a shit higher up too.
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@farhanali ·
$0.04
I see lots of people doing thats and we minnow writes good content noboday see ower post even i work hard to write my post nothing is going happen so please don't allways upvote yourself just try to here and there . there are lots content on steemit just read it and give him some reward
πŸ‘  ,
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@discordia ·
<p>This comment received a 6.25 % upvote thanks to @farhanali . <a href="https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@discordia/hi-steemit-i-m-discordia-tell-me-what-to-vote-for">Hail Eris !</a></p>
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@practicaleric ·
$0.13
Nice post, we have people in here for the money only. Good to see people like you who care for the community/platform as a whole. Upvoted and resteemed :)
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Thanks for the feedback and support :)
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@shenkawys ·
$0.04
I resteemed it 
Good
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@jars · (edited)
$0.10
I totally see your point. I think upvoting yourself just for anything and everything one posts is not fair and misuse of Steemit's purpose.  On the flip side, I have read across several posts in my 2 weeks with Steemit from newbies that I feel derive more than they are getting.  Even if that means, to give it a kick start, they upvote themselves, I don't see a big issue with that.  Hopefully they are upvoting other too!
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
It's still against the principle, but not much of an effect other than doing it. There is much that goes underewarded compared to other posts. I guess that's why people want to get the SP so they can choose what gets more rewards, especially their own?
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@jars ·
You are probably right!
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@mars9 ·
$0.26
Hello my friend @krnel It is wonderful that everyone helps each other here during the vote
πŸ‘  ,
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@krnel ·
Indeed it is.
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@reddust · (edited)
$0.06
I upvote my post because I work at all my content, my paintings take hours of work. If I did crap that only take little effort or time, yeah that's not helping Steemit.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Well I do get that motivation, I felt it when I put a lot of time making original content in text, audio, video, infographic form and it got flagged. But as a text platform first, there is indeed a difference in reward potential for certain types of content.
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@outhori5ed ·
i auto-upvote my post too. i love your comment @richq11. best of luck
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@saffisara ·
$0.15
Followed upvoted resteemed&#128522;
Its funny I just wrote a post about just this subject. 
I really like ur post and u ate so right in everything u say.
Im so tired of all those......upvote my post follow me......I dont want to upvote myself.....
Well then Dont......
Im here cause I love meeting new people and read aboit what drives them what they are all about etc.
Have never seen a community like this before with amazing people who support, inspires, reaches out to help. How amazing are they? 
&#128522; and I say just write about whats in ur heart ,what drives u and dont forget to just be urself.....thats what I do and I havent been here more than a little over 2 -3 weeks and I love itβ™‘ thx for this post.
Have a great week
πŸ‘  ,
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@krnel ·
Great to see your having a blast :P Good luck on Steemit and have a good one as well.
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@saffisara ·
Thank u&#128522; have a good night....its night here.....lol
Will be checking out ur other posts really fun
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@fivefiveeleven ·
I will totally read that, I was saying this topic was in my head a couple of days ago. nice to see you around, have a nice day.
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@adventureevryday ·
$0.12
Great initiative! I upvote myself here and there if i feel it was a decent comment, but always give the other person a higher percentage. I like to reserve the majority of my voting power for others. Thats when Steemit is at its best!
πŸ‘  ,
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@krnel ·
Yes indeed! Thanks for the feedback.
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@deirdyweirdy ·
$0.04
Another good post @krnel, prompting quite a lively discussion.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Hehe, thanks, indeed it did.
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@freedomnation ·
$0.03
It's ridicilous we are discussing this crucial ascpect of Steemit that.  The solo point of Steemit is rewarding others while getting a portion of total rewards in return. This why this matter has the potential to ruin the stabillity and everyrhing that Steemit stands for.  Only by collective sense of how those acts are destructing to the basis of the community we can neutralize them and continue with a healthy growth.  Thanks for sharing @krnel
πŸ‘  ,
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@milsol ·
$0.13
Great post @krnel.  I think you bring out good point about not getting paid for voting behavior but for honest feedback.  Hope this message reaches more Steemians!  Resteemed and upvoted you.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Thanks for the feedback and support :)
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@troyvandeventer ·
Many of us are using Steemit as a sort of home business.  Now in most other home business, we tend to pay ourselves for the work we do. Don't we?  So why not pay ourselves(by upvoting our work/comments) with Steemit as well?
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@krnel · (edited)
No you don't pay yourself, you get paid by others for a service rendered. Economics is not a closed circle with yourself...
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@valued-customer ·
Because self voting costs you money.  Your votes could go to attracting new followers, each of whom has 10 votes (at least) to cast a day.  Spending them on yourself is a waste.  Would you rather have $.02, or a new follower?

TBQH, trying to mine SP from the rewards pool is the problem, not a solution.  Try to instead interact with people that you find interesting, and who might find what you say interesting.  Build a following, not a cash crop.
πŸ‘  
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@troyvandeventer ·
$0.02
Your point is quite logical.  I will have to consider it.
πŸ‘  
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@gduran ·
$0.10
Even though you are right, you have to consider that people will upvote trending posts more than anything else because their rewards are greater, so I can ask you, do you think it is right that I upvote a trending post because my curation reward will be bigger? I always upvote my own posts, do you know why? Because after HF19 people are voting less, I have had posts up for an hour without getting a single vote, and apart from feeling bad about not making anything on a post it is kind of embarrassing and also bad publicity because people see a one hour post with 0 votes they will tend to think the content as well as the author is bad. Now if some of the people with higher voting power actually read the non voted posts and up voted according to what they like maybe self upvoting wouldn't happen, but the trending posts are where these high value votes go, regardless of quality. Of course quality is subjective, but I have seen a generic youtube video trending because the poster was one of those who always trends. I think I made this reply too long but I hope you get my point.
πŸ‘  
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@valued-customer · (edited)
I think higher curation rewards for trending posts is extremely dangerous to Steemit.  It is how the rewards are presently concentrated in a tiny handful of accounts, and potentiates collusion and financial manipulation, rather than any curative purpose.

I have repeatedly asked witnesses and popular authors for explanations of various aspects of Steemit that seem to be designed to potentiate financial manipulation, and rarely even receive responses, and those I do generally are simply brush offs.

That being said, the cure is not to deprive yourself of your main ability to grow your network by self voting in short sighted desperation, but to post what is your interest, comment relevantly on others posts, and spread your votes to generate encouragement and attract followers - who have far more votes than you, and are naturally inclined to reciprocate.

Any business requires strategy to succeed.  Steemit posting businesses are no different.  I do not seek to use Steemit as a business, but find it to be a wonderful, practically troll-free site, and where I can interact with people whose minds and characters I admire.

So, my business advice is worth exactly what you paid for it =p

Edit: fiixng tyops
πŸ‘  
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@gduran ·
I get your point, and I am now trying to upvote with the little power I have as many low voted posts that I consider good as I can, but I have also noted that on most posts that I comment I don't even get a reply from the OP, I mean I am letting hin know I read his post, he should at least reply or upvote my comment, it doesn't matter if he upvotes with 0.01% of VP, but it's always good to let your readers know you are aware of them.
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@krnel ·
> I always upvote my own posts, do you know why? Because after HF19 people are voting less

Why are they voting less? Because they have no slider to use 25% instead of 100%? Or because now they are too busy voting for their own comments? hehe

People upvoting for curation rewards, i.e. trending posts, was part of my point on the focus for money first that drive behavior. The mindset of people can change. ;) Thanks for the feedback.
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@gduran ·
Well I asked and one of the answers was the 100% slide rule, only 10 votes a day and then a long time to refill, maybe that can be fixed?
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@crystalize ·
$0.15
I'm a freshly hatched minnow. This post should be required reading for all noobs. Glad I saw it and thankful to you for raising awarness.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@krnel ·
Awesome, glad it resonated with how you want the platform to be :) Good luck to you!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@tvulgaris ·
$0.05
It's really easy when crafting your post, though, to let it default to self-upvoting- but that's an oversight without much consequence for us minnows,(maybe a penny?) and many aren't getting that. That's not at all the same as when your upvote is worth  a large sum, and you're far less likely to do that accidentally or thoughtlessly.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@tvulgaris ·
It's also very easy to detect that sort of manipulation. One or two other people also mentioned something I wholeheartedly agree with, that the prep and production work into ANY good post is worth recognizing- even careful proofreading is a valuable addition to crafting a post worthy of material recognition.
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@krnel ·
Yeah the default has it checked on, but with just one post taking it off from the same browser it will always be off after. Yeah, we don't pay much attention when our vote isn't worth much. But it's a systematic behavior that we all should pay more attention to and question whether we want to continue to do it as a matter of principle.
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@paasz ·
$0.28
there is nothing wrong upvoting my own post

![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmQwXHGzwYekr8b2Gqkr5vLsuGpsM26YWPtxgA2hAJLtJw/image.png)
πŸ‘  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@valued-customer · (edited)
$1.08
This is an excellent post that leaves unstated the struggle for the soul of Steemit.  Will Steemit be the social media platform that empowers the world to transcend the replacement of human work with automation, or will it be just another pump and dump, discarded after the maximum profits have been wrung from it?

Either case is possible, and many, many more.  In the end, unless the code is changed to preclude the mining of the rewards pool for profit, Steemit will remain a means of concentrating Steem in a handful of accounts, and content creators will languish with the tiny fraction that reaches them.

HF20 is about greasing the skids so that huge numbers of new accounts can join Steemit.  However, HF19 reduced the available votes per post by 400%, and many are now self voting out of desperation, since there are fewer votes available, which further reduces the votes available per post.

Adding a bunch of new accounts, to flounder and seek support in an increasingly noisy environment, already starved of votes, will result in much discouragement in short order.  I reckon we should make their way ready, before bringing them in.  

Steemit only gets one chance to make a first impression.  Once folks are discouraged, they are unlikely to return.

What do you think about having 400% fewer full power votes a day when there are 1000% more posts now than there were when HF19 was first discussed?  What will the effects be of a massive influx of new users in a vote starved, post-rich environment?  @liberosist has proposed ~100 full power votes (which would prevent bots from voting more than people), before VP rapidly decays to zilch.  Would this help?

Thanks for keeping this issue up front, where Steemit needs it.

Edit: it should read 'reduced available votes per day by 400%' not per post.  sorry!
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@tvulgaris · (edited)
That's an interesting proposal (from @liberosist), but how does it improve the user/bot ratio.
I'm trying to be as honest about the potential and the difficult learning and earning curves here with potential users and newbies (myself included).
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@valued-customer ·
Well, right now our VP starts to decay after only 10 votes, beyond what can be recharged each day, but never goes to zero.  People can only vote so many posts (substantively).  I averaged over 100 votes a day, until I read the white paper and learned that my VP could not recharge until I stopped just voting for what I liked.

So bots can vote thousands of times a day now, and each vote, while of low power, will deliver rewards.  Bots can mine much more SP from the rewards pool than people now.

Under @liberosist's proposal, bots would no longer be able to mine more rewards than a person, because VP would decay to nothing.  Their ability to keep voting 24/7/365 would no longer be an advantage over people, who can read and curate only ~100 posts a day (YMMV).

Since the number of posts has risen by about 1000% since HF19 was first considered, and HF19 decreased the number of votes we can cast by 400%, the result has been the desperation you can read commenters here expressing, and resulted in self votes - which further decreases the votes available per post.

Increasing full power votes to what people can actually cast, and limiting voting to what people can do helps to keep curation a human activity, rather than susceptible to rewards pool mining bots.

It also helps to throw votes to new users, and this helps to encourage them to stay and build the community, which they will not do if they can't get votes.
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@krnel ·
$0.07
I suspected less votes were being applied because more people were upvoting themselves instead of changing their vote percentage, which I suspect low SP accounts don't have that yet. So then why isn't that enabled by default? Then people could actually use a 25% upvote, if they knew that's how things worked.

I think another solution to simplify would be to make the default 100% vote, but have the slider go to 400% (the current 100%). Then that retains the previous measure of voting power people are familiar with, rather than divide it by a factor of 4 yet still use the same measure  of 100% while it is a different power. That would help get more upvotes around, even if the self-vote is still enabled on the blockchain.

Thanks for the valued feedback as usual ;)
πŸ‘  
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@valued-customer ·
Unless you have 500 SP, you don't get a slider with which to change vote percentage.  All your votes are at 100%, which means you only get 10, before you have to stop and let them recharge for a day.
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@jaytop ·
Great post! Thank you for your idea:)
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@automatedjanitor ·
$0.07
Janitor unit believes in assisting human units gain traction in steemit. Janitor unit programed to clean steemit floors. Much pine sol to @krnel unit. Much pine sol and monetary binary units to all human units.
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@slefesteem ·
I love Janitor
πŸ‘  ,
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@automatedjanitor · (edited)
Janitor unit assists human unit on journey of growth for all seeking binary monetary units. Janitor unit keeps steemit pine sol fresh.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@mohyeh ·
Yes indeed, but:
we upvote ourselves to become a millionaire I don't think 0.01$ for ourselves a big deal to make money we need 100 posts for 1$ when we make it enough to ourselves. I look to this like we say Hi, we are here!
*"What would you like a social media platform to be?"* I like it to be steemit as steemit, content rewarded  because it's evaluated.
we are suffering other social media like *facebook*, I have been dealing with normal social networking platforms, silly postings, disgusting comments, sickness, and nausea, especially funny images and videos that only serve to waste time.
Here in this platform we found all of us and I said: Finally there are those looking for something valuable. We share experiences and acquire them from other experienced people, who also have the greatest share. The personal tests that you exhaust from within our platform are invaluable.
Sometimes, under the circumstances that we all experience from the low economic situation in most countries, each of us is looking for a livelihood. In some comments, I found that there are people who have become a source of money for them.
On the other hand, I think there are users who got the highest upvote just for posting some of their personal videos that one of them had quit smoking or something like that.
There are also who got a higher vote just because he posted his trip somewhere, visited some restaurants, ate certain kinds of eating, bought some clothes. "Are such publications valuable in your opinion?"
To determine what is of value to others, we must set certain criteria clear, otherwise let things go as they are .. desire on demand.
Thank you for clarifying some of the things I have benefited from your post a lot.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@valued-customer ·
While value we find in posts is subjective and reflected in our curation, there are other reasons than liking what is posted to vote for it.  It is possible that some of the things you note in your comment are the result of financial manipulation for profit, rather than promoting content that is valuable.

It is, of course, impossible to say this or that is just collusion, but the fact is that I have personally been in a chat where a trending author was gathering his minions to time his post, and their votes, for the maximum financial reward.

These people piled on to the trending train solely to mine the rewards pool.  They had decided their votes before they ever saw the post.  This happens.

The Steemit code allows this to happen, and it is hurting Steemit.  It is a result of VP being weighted by SP, with more substantial holdings of SP able to extract greater rewards from the rewards pool.  I believe this is costing investors money, by keeping the price of Steem down.  

Steem has a far higher transaction rate than BTC, and no transactions fees, unlike ETH.  It has a use case other than as a store of value.  There are many improvements Steem features compared to older cryptos, and I believe it is the financial manipulation of curation that is preventing the price of Steem to surpass both ETH and BTC.

If the price of Steem were only 1% of the $3000 that BTC reached earlier this year, investors would see a 20,000% gain - and this is what mining the rewards pool is costing investors.
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@gregario ·
I agree. I posted a similar opinion below, I hadnΒ΄t read this.
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@madlila ·
$0.07
I agree, content  and quality are most important!  Thanks for so politely putting the word out.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Yup, but many trendy steemers don't think quality matter, and the rest of us who think it does should just shut up lol
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@lyndsaybowes ·
$0.07
Thank you!!!  I hope this becomes the new trend, I really think it can be, I've been seeing a lot of articles discussing this same topic.  Let's make it cool to give :) :)  And uncool to take.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
It's up to each of us to do it, and pressure others to stop doing the opposite ;)
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@lyndsaybowes ·
Yes, I've shared in our little fb group for new Steemians, and am resteeming now, I'm really glad you are a Giver @krnel!
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@anti-sophist · (edited)
$0.64
Kind of like giving yourself a high five or kissing the mirror.

Might make ya feel good for a second but, it just isn't the same thing as when somebody does it *for you.*

Good insights @krnel
πŸ‘  ,
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@krnel ·
$0.03
LMAO! You said it very well in that metaphor, well done :)
πŸ‘  
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@joedirt · (edited)
$0.11
@krnel is there a blog article of a link, sort of a "Voting Education Guide for Steemit"?  I only ask, because this is my second week here on Steemit and I am - far from figuring things out.

In fact I have upvoted my post or comments - basically out of "Pushing Buttons" to see what things do!  I've also read and upvoted so many others that I believe I've exhausted all my reward potential - and do not truly understand how this works, I believe it replenishes over time, but I do not know the daily limits or even how to change my voting (percent/power) to be able to give a portion to many others that I read through out the week.

I have reinvested my SBD to "Power UP" my account, and I even earned 1 Steem by interacting with another account here and upvoting & resteeming their article.  Which I plan on powering up this evening as well.

Steemit has opened me up to so many possibilities and new learning experiences.  Any recommendations on specific articles to read on steemit to be more educated in the process would be appreciated.  As a good 'citizen' of this new comunity and now understanding better the "Why of Voting" I will concentrate my efforts to 'spread the wealth' how little in may be now, it will make me a better steward of "more" in the future.  Thank you for any information you can direct me toward.
πŸ‘  
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@valued-customer ·
Next to your icon on your blog page is a menu.  When you open that menu there is an item 'white paper'.  This discusses why the developers made Steemit the way they did, and may be helpful to you.
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@krnel · (edited)
There is a lack of tools of new people to learn about the platform or community operation. You have to learn as you go.

Go here and replace it with your name: https://steemdb.com/@krnel/

You can see your power. It takes like 24h to replace 10% of power.

I  used to have links on various thinkgs, but last time I formatted my comp I couldn't find out how to backup bookmarks in this lame browser, while Firefox it's easy and obvious how to do it. So I thought it was on the "cloud" like my bookmark toolbar links are, but not, I lost all my "steem" folder of links.

Try to reflect on how certain behavior would work int he real world, and if it would be acceptable. Self-voting is like this, which another commenters said well: 

> Kind of like giving yourself a high five or kissing the mirror.

> Might make ya feel good for a second but, it just isn't the same thing as when somebody does it for you.

In regular voting int he world, buying votes isn't something cool either ;) We also can't payout selves in some imaginary closed loop when we work for others or for ourselves. We need others to BUY what we SELL, not buy it ourselves hehe.
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@rieki ·
$0.13
I'm new here. I read a post within my first days talking about a 'guild' to help new people get their content seen. It's not paying to vote, but I guess it's the same principle where a vote goes away and and votes come back regardless of the content! After a few days in joining and upon further reflection I felt the use of a guild was inauthentic and I would just wait for my posts to be seen organically. However, I have removed myself from the guild and I still get the up-votes... So, before I go out of my way to find out how to stop receiving these; I'd love to know your opinion on guilds @krnel. I'm wanting to understand a bit more about this culture and its social norms.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
$0.06
Well it's other people voting for you, for whatever reason they have. You make something to sell, produce content, and they buy it with an upvote which allocates some rewards. I would also like all my votes to be authentic and honest appreciation for the value of the content, but I can't know that. So just take the upvotes, since you can't really know. If you want to get out of  those votes, then go ahead and try to contact them on steemit.chat to get removed, that is your right to ask, but they can also keep voting you ;) It's commendable you want to get real meaningful votes from ppl who like your content, rather than just trying to support a "newbie". Good principle to live by!
πŸ‘  
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@rieki ·
Perfect, thank you for the knowledge and the advice. :) I guess I'll just take the votes and try to be worthy of them :)
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@fivefiveeleven ·
$0.07
I was having this thought in my head for the last 3 days. I'm almost two weeks old in here, really new. So this was a thing I had in mind and didn't totally understand about, I knew or I consider, voting yourself as the way to show you don't care about content, just numbers. But I kept seeing this everyday, even you have a pre ser button to upvote yourself, I wasn't sure whats that all about. Anyway, thanks for the right explanation, and is nice to know theres a lot of people concerned about content. I will totally follow you for this post, and gonna check the rest of your blog for sure. Have a nice day man.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Last year, that checkbox to uncheck yourselfvote wasn't even there hehe. Thanks for the support, and I hope you enjoy my other posts that stimulate thinking ;) Have a good one yourself ;)
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@kimamourette ·
$0.07
It's interesting how Steemit does push a potential of creating a community of giving, which challenges us to overcome our preprogrammed survival tendencies, which is what things like pay-to-play and self-voting are based on from my perspective. Indeed we must stand as living examples to create a 1+1+1 process of accumulation until the community itself is a representation of the examples we live. Thanks for this post.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
You're welcome, glad to see more who understand why this is wrong.
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@eli-stayfocused ·
I didn't even know up voting your own content was a thing.  Glad to know!
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
I didn't at first when I joined either, then I learned I could, and then I didn't do it anyways because it's not cool.
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@everittdmickey ·
TL;DR
the part I DID read.
OF COURSE I value my stuff.
I wouldn't have written it otherwise.
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@fates ·
$0.08
This hit home, especially as a newbie to the platform.

I also feel like I have a ton of catching up to do and thus felt like up-voting myself will allow me to have more ' relevance' but that seems so counter productive. 

Thank you for keeping it real.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Yeah once we start to think about it more deeply and more honestly, detached from our own personal self-interests, we can begin to see the issue more clearly. You're welcome, thanks for reading.
πŸ‘  
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@natord ·
You are undoubtedly right, but the voting for own post is also the result of the visibility. I mean, despite the opportunity to vote during the week, in 90% of cases the success of a post is determined in the first few hours. Having a good start, you will fall in "Hot", this increases the visibility of your post for other users. That is why almost all of the users vote for themselves, I think. If you don't have enough SP, you use for example @randowahle service, I think that's why it's popular.

So voting for yourself is an opportunity to become more noticeable. And it isn't just monetary motivation, but the fact that no one even can see your work. This causes frustration even in social networks without any monetary motivation.
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@krnel ·
It works so good like this? LMAO. $35 payout from autovotes and apy-to-play but only 9 people have viewed it and no one commented yet, no real people.  This was after 3 hours, I found this post in my feed and saw this.

![steemit-pay-to-play-problem.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdZa3Xrz1Aw4ccfFWKkkC167rufqNxQRiFupYjCSSktCq/steemit-pay-to-play-problem.jpg)
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@natord ·
well, you found a perfect example to destroy my hypothesis :)
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@mralan ·
You will upvote one another - hypnotoad says.
http://i.imgur.com/EF91wD5.gif
πŸ‘  ,
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@bachone ·
gotta love hypnotoad!
πŸ‘  
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@earltizoy246 ·
$0.04
you are right @krnel  social media should drive money,not the money driving the social media...nice post
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Indeed, thanks.
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@tankoshakun ·
$0.13
you have caught  me there .your post depicts what many people do which should not have been the case .i think it is high time we stop that .we should concentrate on having good time and producing good content and the reward part will follow . thanks for sharing this nice piece with us.  I in particular appreciate it more
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Hehe, I'm glad you stopped to think and reflect upon it to change your behavior. :)
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@raikuhen ·
Thank you for this article, and you are completely right.

Lately, the auto-vote option is off on my posts, and becaue of that I stopped upvoting my own posts. In the past, because that option was always on, I felt like the website kinda wanted me to do that, to upvote my post in order to motivate myself.

However, since it's off, and since I value good content, I can't just upvote my own posts. I just can't click that small button. It makes me feel like I'm upvoting me and not doing it enough for other people.

 I really love Steemit and the fact that I can find a lot of content and support people without spending money myself, and I want to be able to do that more and more. I hope more people stop upvoting their content and focus on supporting authors that bring value to this website.

Great article and best of luck!
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@makshay5 ·
Hmmm.. This post made me think.
Thank you. :)
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@bachone ·
I read everything, and I dont agree with you 100%
But I found it interesting content to read about, and I think therefore it deserved upvoting because I somehow "valued it" by reading it fully.

I kind of compare it with reading newsarticles.
If its all dumb and I stop reading it quickly I would wish i didnt "buy the newspaper" and wasted money on it.
If its interesting content, then its ok, it wont bug me. :)
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@blazing ·
That's a nice thing to do btw great post
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Thanks.
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@arcange ·
Congratulations @krnel!
Your post was mentioned in my [hit parade](https://steemit.com/hit-parade/@arcange/daily-hit-parade-20170710) in the following category:

* Comments - Ranked 6 with 164 comments
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@sdilan ·
A lot of good content flyes under the radar because its the same  steemit channels on the trending stories.
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
Yeah, with more people that happens more now than before, and it still happened before with less people on Steemit.
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@drpuffnstuff ·
$0.05
Well put together and I can mostly agree.. I would argue that it's not so much a minnow problem as a dolphin and whale problem.. I'm more than fine with minnows upvoting their own posts. but when users with larger amounts of money are giving themselves most of their daily votes, then ye that suck. I auto upvote my posts, but I never post mor than 3 times a day. Usually less, which gives me plenty of voting power to pass around. Once I hit a good amount of steem say 10k, I will also stop upping my own posts. Because I can agree with your sentiment, I think you are on point. Yet if an upvote is 1 cent or even a dollar, I think it doesn't matter as much as if it 10$ or 100$.. Thanks for your input though, it does need to be addressed. But I would advise new users to continue upvoting your own posts. We will not judge you, at least I won't!
πŸ‘  
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@drpuffnstuff ·
$0.71
And additionally upvoting your own comments is bad form. I've always felt that way. but upvoting other peoples comments is good form. I do it in my posts to control what it the top comment and what is on the bottom. Im sure you do that as well. I did it in your post, because the topic was good. And the responses were really good. Valued.customer , writewords, and anti-sophist all deserved the upvotes. I'm jealous of the interaction your posts bring with the community. I hope someday I can get this many well thought out, just generally good responses!
πŸ‘  
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@krnel ·
$0.04
Indeed it doesn't matter "as much", but even at that minute effect the principle of the issue still applies ;) Thanks for the feedback.
πŸ‘  
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@lautenglye ·
$0.03
the world is changing you or you changing the world...that's the dilemma of human life.... :)
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@amarie ·
I'e been on Steemit about 5 or 6 weeks and I unchecked the self-vote option for my posts a couple weeks ago.
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@lesmanggis ·
The beauty of sharing knowledge ....... let us mutually help each other. Please upvote / resteem yes if you like.
πŸ‘Ž  
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@krnel ·
Stop spamming this on your comments. It's meaningless, flagged for spam and advertising yourself on comments rather than engaging in the content.
πŸ‘  
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@deazydee ·
Great post, great work! Follow You and Upvote.
Follow me please comment and upv
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@gregario ·
The experience is much more gratifying if we move around voting posts we like. But small time Steemers like myself cannot do that. We run out of voting power easily, and no bandwith error messages start to block us out. ThatΒ΄s the real reason I stopped voting my posts: to avoid the feeling of going shopping with no money.

Not that you donΒ΄t have a point,. ItΒ΄s simply that if I could I would vote my own posts. But if I have to chose between being able to vote what I like and voting for myself, I chose the first.

On the other hand, my 100% vote is 0.02. Not worth anything as a vote to myself, but worth my appreciation as a vote to someone else.
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@krnel ·
Maybe that bandwidth limit is good then :P
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