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More n^2 by felixxx

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· @felixxx ·
$144.28
More n^2
Welcome back to another episode of why I want non-linear rewards back.
Let me start on this disclaimer:

>## The problem
###
>The real reason, why rewards were so 'unfair' before hf 18 is this:
<center>https://i.imgur.com/1WYlJQJ.png</center>
<center>(taken from steemwhales.com)</center>
>A few accounts hold most of the Steem Power.
>No change of the rewards distribution can change this imbalance overnight.
>The trending page might look better to some now, but consider how many of those posting rewards go straight back to the whales, who sold their vote.
>The Steem shares are distributed very disproportional right now.
In my view, this has been the main cause of problems and will be for quite some time.
There is just no way around it.

>But we can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.

## That is the problem.
###
###### We can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
##### We can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
#### We can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
### We can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
# We can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
###
Even though this was part of my [last post](https://steemit.com/non-linear/@felixxx/why-n-2), I got this reply:

>But @felixxx i don't understand why you think this will help against self votes for whales ?

>If they have strong account than they will have enough r_shares. Do you think that it's a problem for them, to make few other accounts with SP delegation to those accounts to "spread" the r_shares among votes?

>And bots selling votes could easily do the same. You "pay" for the vote and you get 10 votes from different accounts. Wouldn't that exploit the n^2 as well? the only thing you would do with this would be taking those couple of cents that minnows get and are more than grateful for them. Even if it's from themselves ...

>But what you would get with this is, that "Steemit elders" who vote for each other would benefit exponentially as they did before. Wouldn't they?

It can be so frustrating.
Whenever I bring up this topic, I get the same replies.
I have to explain the same few things over and over again and whenever I feel like I finally established some understanding, we are back to ```But the whales ...```

When I first discovered STEEM, it was how it worked and it was well thought out and it made perfect sense.
I could say: _No, Steem is not a pyramid-scheme, because we have n^2 and that means we have a form of peer-review system for all content and only content that gets a consensus gets a payout._

### This is not true anymore.
###
Now, the more Steem Power you have, the more weekly **interest rates** you can generate.
... Regardless of the quality of your content.

To explain, why n^2 would create a situation again, where players were actually competing for better content and would incentivize downvotes against abuse, let me point you to the original whitepaper:

>## The Story of the Crab Bucket
>###
>A man was walking along the beach and saw another man fishing in the surf with a bait bucket beside him. As he drew closer, he saw that the bait bucket had no lid and had live crabs inside.
"Why don't you cover your bait bucket so the crabs won't escape?", he said.
"You don't understand.", the man replied, "If there is one crab in the bucket it would surely crawl out very quickly. However, when there are many crabs in the bucket, if one tries to crawl up the side, the others grab hold of it and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them."
So it is with people. If one tries to do something different, get better grades, improve herself, escape her environment, or dream big dreams, other people will try to drag her back down to share their fate.

Try to make sense of this sentence in a linear scenario:

>"If there is one crab in the bucket it would surely crawl out very quickly. However, when there are many crabs in the bucket, if one tries to crawl up the side, the others grab hold of it and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them."

With linear rewards it takes the crabs as much effort to climb the same distance themselves as it would take them to pull another crab down the same distance.
Or in other words, @ned decided to not use a bucket at all, and just let every crab walk for themselves.

If you want to create incentives for one whale to counter another whales' vote, then you need to employ non-linear rewards.

>But what you would get with this is, that "Steemit elders" who vote for each other would benefit exponentially as they did before. Wouldn't they?

Perhaps they would. 

It just goes to show, how bad some of the players were that the whales chose as their champions. In fact, most abusers have some of the highest reputations around here.

Sure, with n^2 we would have to fight other forms of abuse, but at least it would create an incentive to **cooperate**, discuss and **curate** content.
With linear rewards, the **social** part is just completely missing.

It sucks, that the whales have all the power.
It sucks, that those whales are all buddies of @ned.

# But we can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
###
If you feel like having your comment downvoted today, feel free to reply with anything resembling ```but the whales ...```
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 5 others
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vote details (69)
@ogejoy ·
This is nice, keep it up
πŸ‘Ž  ,
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@marzukirizki ·
very nice photo i like, @marzukirizki
πŸ‘Ž  ,
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@sharminkona ·
Thanks for sharing this post.
I appreciate your every post

Resteemit..
πŸ‘Ž  
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@triptybarsha ·
Thanks for this valuable post sharing... i appreciate this post.
i always follow your post dear friend....resteemit
πŸ‘Ž  
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@triptybarsha ·
I am very very sorry sir, i can't understand please withdraw your flag
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (1)
@juanmiguelsalas ·
$0.72
Please sir, nice post sir, upvote me sir... but I want also upvote more your content sir, something I can not do now sir with this sh*tty only 10 votes at 100% sir thanks to lineal rewards. 

I have sir, no more nice feeling to vote for more of your post sir because my voting power is to low sir. Please lend me some voting power, help people of China sir. My family and friends, they need my help and your sir. 

And please sir, when will come the movil wallet sir? Much need it, re-steemed please upvoted me 

# XD
πŸ‘  
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@juanmiguelsalas ·
I forgot to use "Dear" dammm! XD
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@gargon ·
$0.05
jajajajajajaj yes man Im getting tired of that as well
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@everittdmickey ·
$0.07
I don't have a problem with self voting by whales.
or anyone else.
πŸ‘  
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@isnochys ·
We would in a different kind of hell:)
The flag war between @berniesanders and @haejin would be of epic proportions with all their bots.

Hmm, as a whale.. currently, with 10 bots, they cannot get more by delegating.
But with n^2, wouldn't delegating their SP to 10 bots would x100 their power.. delegating to 100 bots.. 10000x times the power.
Or are my calculations wrong?

But for the minnows it would indeed be a big incentive to use more social skills...
We would see way more vlogs and already successfull facebook users, I guess.
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@felixxx ·
Yes those calculations are wrong.
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@isnochys ·
Can you point me to the right formula?
Your last article:
https://steemit.com/non-linear/@felixxx/why-n-2

> If you were to use your vote on a post with already a bunch of r_shares, then upvoting that post would allow you to allocate much more rewards than if another account with 2x as much Steem Power voted on a different post with no other votes to stack on to.

Is not that clear, how exactly that would happen.

Also, who would discover new content?
Apperently, right now a lot of users already vote on the same face again and  again, because there is already a bunch of votes on.
With n^2 this would increase, I guess.
Why 'waste' my vote on that nice poem, when I can get way more curator rewards back, by voting on that daily trending?
πŸ‘  
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@bagindooo ·
Power rules! So?
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@fuchsfalke ·
$0.26
Hi @felixxx

Is it technically possible to calculate Upvotes and Dowevotes/Flags seperatly from each other?

For example we Stay with linear or n^1,25 and downvotes simply count with double SP?
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@felixxx ·
Many things are technically possible :P
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@fuchsfalke ·
Fair Point.

Than let me ask a few more specific questions:

β€’ Could an entirely new formula be implemented by the witnesses/Devs without an Fork?

β€’ How Heavy Would the Network-Performance-Impact be when switching from simple functions (like linear/^2) to more Advanced stuff? Does this load applies to the witness-Servers and how much (more) Could they handle?

β€’ Do you think an more complex Formula could solve the current Problem with the Crab, while still Match the concerns of the β€žbut the whales..β€œ People?

Maybe there is an β€žEierlegende-Woll-Milch-Sauβ€œ-Function out there.
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@cloudspyder ·
I earn less than a penny per post sometimes quarter dollar...
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@teamsteem ·
$7.60
I also want people to discuss this topic more widely and though I don't necessarily agree with everything you wrote I do agree that anything away from linear reward is better than what we have right now. 

The problem is pretty simple and you clearly highlighted it when you wrote:

> Before, there was an incentive to look for good material and vote it.
Self-voting was not the most profitable strategy.

Unless I'm missing something, this inevitably advantage the scammers who simply have to create bots to achieve their ends and sooner or later the scammers becomes the majority shareholders. 

Self-voting 100% of the times 10 times a day. 

No policing of such behavior is currently possible because the policing is all at the cost of the police and also the policing becomes ever more difficult while the scamming remains risk free and doesn't increase in difficulty. 

Scam or abuse will become more prevalent feeding on the fact that the policing will become ever more difficult.  

The second most profitable strategy is running a bot that sell votes. Scammers buy all votes whenever profitable further accelerating the process by which they will become the majority shareholders.

I could be missing something. I could be wrong. To me this seems like basic economics 101. 
 
Non linear reward favors those who hold the most Steem Power under one single account, in other words favors those who risk the most and who have the most to gain. 

The current system inevitably favors the scammers at the expense of the biggest shareholders. 

One other advantage of non linear reward is that it rewards those who vote 100% and thus reward the very most benevolent authors and posts. 

The very most benevolent information is the most important information. Nobody wants the second best stand-up comedy or music album, news reporting or whatever. Everyone wants the very best.  

(a 50% vote is 4 times less powerful than a 100% under n^2)

Selling delegation or votes under super linear reward is also disincentivized  as the math right above demonstrate. 

Selling delegation involve splitting one stake and is in a way similar to not voting 100%. Bid bot selling would also suffer under super linear reward for the exact same reasons.
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (9)
@felixxx ·
$1.66
>I could be missing something. I could be wrong. To me this seems like basic economics 101.

You are not missing anything. You are not wrong.

You don't have to agree with everything I wrote above, as long as we agree on non-linear, I am more than happy.

I find the situation incredibly frustrating and can not help myself, but write about it in this form.
πŸ‘  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@adammillwardart · (edited)
I'm not sure I entirely understand all of this linear/non linear but I voted for you as a witness. It's clear your focus is for the benefit of the long term growth of the community.
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@bitgeek ·
$0.03
comment
Congratulations @felixxx, this post is the tenth most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Hero account holder (accounts that hold between 10 and 100 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Hero account holders during this period was 415 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $10570.04. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, [click here](www.steemit.com/steemit/@bitgeek/payout-stats-report-for-16th-february-2018--part-i). 

If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, please reply stop to this comment.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@felixxx ·
Stop this, please.
And do not tell me what to do.
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@bitgeek · (edited)
$0.03
You’re excluded from future posts. And please get over yourself.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@bitgeek ·
$0.03
stop
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@whatsup ·
Maybe if you rephrase it even more rudely that would help.  I don't care about your tone, but yelling doesn't break it down to a more understandable situation.
properties (36)
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@felixxx ·
$2.77
Don't worry; I got this.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)