Warning: Steem witnesses executed a hard fork on 2020-05-20, seizing 23.6M STEEM from 65 accounts. The funds were transferred to an account named @community321, the ownership (and intentions) of which have not been revealed. The witnesses claim to have been targeting accounts which defended against a hostile takeover in early March, but at least 2 accounts on the list have been inactive for over 4 years.

Coverage:
- Decrypt.io: Steem network to seize $5 million from its own users
- SteemPeak.com: Official Announcement by @softfork22888
- GitHub.com: view steemd HF23 changes

What you can do:
- Send exchanges a notice of the pending class action lawsuit.
- Switch to HIVE, the community-led fork. Visit Hive.blog and Hiveblocks.com.

Normie Talk - HF21 Explained (SPS + EIP) What it is and what happens next by justineh

View this thread on steempeak.com
· @justineh · (edited)
$269.99
Normie Talk - HF21 Explained (SPS + EIP) What it is and what happens next
<div class="text-justify">

<br>

![hf.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmdgbY7AYf714oXVL5oKEWN4WZk63oMarGaSJLXUsJ6TQ8/hf.jpg)
<br>
<br>
There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming HF21, but I feel there has not been a explanation of what any of it means directed to the community itself.  I don't feel it has been explained in a way that everyone can grasp and understand while seeing the *goal* of the proposed changes. 

This may be due to different styles of communication or just a disconnect from the user base. Either way I believe it is an unfortunate oversight, and this post is my attempt to remedy that. As I feel communication is extremely important for any community, organization or business. 
<br>
<sub>**Full Disclosure-** I am not a top witness and therefore am not considered in the "consensus" aspects of this hardfork. I am am active community member and a part of a backup witness team (c-squared) though, and due to my involvement of many projects on this chain I have been included in some "conversations" pertaining to this HF discussion. During these discussions I like to think of myself as a community advocate or representative. I try to ensure community concerns are heard and do my best to keep the community in mind through every discussion. Whether I am the best choice for that is up for debate.. but I figure if I am in such a position I should take it seriously and do my best to represent the community.
<br>
So with all of that being said, this is my attempt to explain the proposed HF changes to the community, the best way I can. My goal is to help get the correct information out and give the community a good understanding of what the HF consists of, why those supporting it think it's needed, and what happens next. 
<br>
 I will do my best to keep my opinions out of most of this post (I'll save them for a future one perhaps), but rather try to explain the idea behind these proposed changes... **from one normie to another.** Therefore I will not be focusing on algorithms or charts (I'll link to those for anyone who wants them though), but rather just try to paint a picture of what the ideas of the changes are as well as the desired effect. </sub>
<br>
---

<br>
# First Things First
<br>
### What is  a hard fork?
A hard fork is a when a change in the main protocol (or code) happens on a blockchain. This normally occurs when changes or improvements to the core code of the chain takes place. In order for these changes to take place, a protocol is released (traditionally by steemit inc here on steem) and then "consensus" must occur for the chain to migrate to this new protocol.  Consensus is when 17 of the top 20 witnesses "accept" this change in protocol by beginning to run this new code and stop running the old one. Only then will these changes in protocol take effect. This will be the 21st Hard Fork to occur on The Steem Blockchain. 

Here is a [good description/analogy](https://cointelegraph.com/bitcoin-cash-for-beginners/what-is-hard-fork#the-dao) of blockchain protocol changes for anyone wanting more information. 

#### Please note-
 We are not to this point on HF21. **The protocol has not been released yet and there is no scheduled date for when that will occur.**

 Steemit inc did release a [Test Net](https://steemit.com/steemit/@steemitblog/steemit-update-hf21-testnet-sps-eip-rewards-api-smts) though where witnesses will begin testing the possible code to find any issues or errors so they can be fixed. The goal of this is to prevent possible issues from occurring (as we saw with HF20), but of course not everything can always be prevented. The test net is designed to help though and many witnesses are actively testing the code currently. 

Once testing has been done and they feel it's sufficient, a date will be announced. 

<br>
![fork.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmVXNCaH2zNJpLbkEksSHXEvbPRKSWnbkkzb7qggtBMhr9/fork.jpg)
<br>
---
<br>

# HF21 - The Details
This hard fork is made up of two very different and separate aspects -  **The SPS (Steem Proposal System)** and **The EIP (Economic Improvements Proposal).** I will try to go through each one in a easy to understand way, while linking to more complex information for those that want it. 
<br>
<br>
# Part One - The SPS
The SPS, Steem Proposal System or Steem.DAO, is a worker proposal system that is coded into the chain itself. This will be an automated system (no "group" controlling it) that any member of the community can submit a "proposal" to through a front end interface. Stake weighted voting decides what proposals receive funding, and payments are sent out in installments over a time period, after a proposal has been "approved". 

The SPS was [proposed by blocktrades nearly 5 months ago](https://steemit.com/blocktrades/@blocktrades/proposing-a-worker-proposal-system-for-steem), and after an agreement from [Steemit Inc to fund the development](https://steemit.com/blocktrades/@blocktrades/blocktrades-beginning-development-of-steem-proposal-system), Blocktrades began building the code. 

### What is the point?
There are many blockchains in existence that have Worker Proposal Systems (or sometimes referred to as "DAO's) in effect. The idea is a decentralized and automated way to fund things that could improve or add to the ecosystem. This allows anyone from the community to propose something, and if it has enough support from stake holders then it can receive funding. 

### What can be funded?
Anything. Community members can submit a proposal for absolutely anything. There is a fee of 10sbd's to submit a proposal in place to try to prevent spam submissions, but anything can be submitted. 

This could be used for a marketing project, outreach, onboarding, developments to the UI/UX or any other site features. It could be used to hire a management team for the community, PR reps, or some other "role" the community sees as beneficial. It could be used to fund a project idea, a game, etc etc etc. 

Think of this as a way for the community to vote and fund projects they see as beneficial to the chain itself as well as the Steem Ecosystem. Therefore depending on Steemit inc. for these items less and less. 

It allows the community to redirect some of the shared inflation pool to things that could have a positive impact on the ecosystem and hopefully improve the overall value of STEEM. 

### Where does the funding come from?
When the SPS was originally announced there had been a discussion of Steemit Inc. contributing a substantial "seed funding" (as detailed in the link above), that amount is now discussed to be 200K STEEM. 

It is very important though for the worker proposal system to have sustainable funding to be successful, as well as the importance of it not solely relying on Steemit Inc itself. That means it is even more important that the community redirect sustainable funding from some other place to ensure this worker proposal system can actually provide a service to the community. 

**Proposed Sustainable Funding Source**
On steem we have a shared rewards pool that is sourced from inflation. This pool is allocated to different types of "rewards" as seen below;

![rewards graph.png](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmbKDdwCnhVSCZ9cQ6vuMhTjzM5S35uwpshcC9DtAiZCgA/rewards%20graph.png)

The idea of this inflation pool is to use these funds to pay for things that add value to STEEM. Currently it's being used to pay rewards to authors/curators through post and comment payouts, a vesting interest reward and witness rewards (paid in SP). 


**The figures (when combined) look like this currently -**
<br>
#### Authors/Curators - 75%    |   Interest - 15%   |  Witnesses 10%
<br>

As you can see the largest part of the inflation pool is being used to reward content contributions. 
<br>
**The Proposed Change-**

#### Authors/Curators - 65%   | Interest - 15%   | Witnesses 10%  | SPS - 10%
<br>
The idea is that since that is the group receiving the largest cut, that redirecting 10% of that inflation to the SPS would be a good place to start. Remember, the inflation pool should be used for what adds the most value to Steem and has the most long term benefit.. therefore improving the price of STEEM for everyone. Many feel the SPS could be exactly what we need to push Steem to where it needs to be, while giving the community control over what is funded itself. 
<br>
#### TDLR Part One
The SPS is an automated worker proposal system that was coded by Blocktrades. Proposed funding would be a combination of donations as well as redirecting 10% of the current inflation pool to the SPS itself. 
<br>
**My Thoughts on SPS?**
I think the SPS is desperately needed and could be very beneficial for the Steem ecosystem. I think that the inflation pool should be used to fund what adds value, or ultimately that inflation is actually contributing to a decrease in the price of STEEM. 

I left a comment on [this post](https://steemit.com/proposal/@netuoso/proposal-add-inflation-funding-source-to-the-steem-proposal-system) of my thoughts overall for anyone interested, but I won't include them here for sake of time and not wanting to include *too* much of my own opinions. 





<br>
![economics.jpeg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmYXRnW3kQwWDts7aimUnMQRse5V6qVQUAUscjNmtP1dgn/economics.jpeg)
<br>
---
<br>
# Part Two -  The EIP
The EIP, Economic Improvement Proposal, is something that has come about due to *years* of conversations about how to improve the economics of the Steem Ecosystem. First conversations about such changes can be seen in [this post](https://steemit.com/steemit/@ats-david/make-steemit-great-again-fork-this-place) as well as many other places. This discussion has been debated among top witnesses, stake holders and community members since that time with no actual attempt in change being considered until now. 

The current proposal consists of three different components working together in tandem to hopefully improve the economics on Steem. You can see the details on [Steemit Inc's post opening up discussion about the topic.](https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/improving-the-economics-of-steem-a-community-proposal)

<br>
## The Three Components of The EIP

<br>
## 1) 50:50 Split
<br>
#### What is it?
This would be a change in the current split of content rewards from **Author 75%/Curators 25%** to **Author 50%/Curators 50%**. 

#### What is the goal?
It is no secret that we need more content consumers on Steem. We have great content, we need people to read it and reward it though. The idea here is that individuals would actually **profit** by curating and upvoting said content, so they will do it, rather than other forms of earning a profit. 

Imagine if all those spamming could actually just curate to get a return on their investment? Imagine if large stake holders actually made a return by trailing some of the manual curation efforts? What if it was actually profitable for individuals to invest in steem and reward the valuable content? Would more people do it? *That's the idea.*

**But what about those just spamming and upvoting themselves? No matter of the split they still are getting 100%, right?**

Well that is where downvotes come in...
<br>
## 2) The Downvote Pool
<br>
#### What is it?
The proposed downvote pool is designed to help counter this behavior by removing the "cost" of downvotes to a certain limit. Currently downvotes are not "free", in fact to use a downvote you are using the allocated "mana" that can be used for those 10 upvotes a day that regenerate. 

Essentially, to downvote something you are throwing away possible ROI you would receive by upvoting something instead.  When an individual downvotes something their vote worth, as well as the same amount of reward on the content receiving the downvote is sent back to the shared rewards pool. There is a benefit to the chain of course, as this puts rewards back into the pool to be distributed to all authors, but the individual downvoting has given up ROI of possible curation rewards from casting that vote instead. 

This has led to a culture of downvotes not being used by the majority to fight abuse of the shared rewards pool. Leaving us with bid bot abuse going unchecked, self upvoted spam by large and small stake holders alike, as well as extremely overly rewarded content becoming the norm. 

Rewards are intended to show consensus from the community-  **An Upvote** is showing a stake holder feels the contribution is worth more than the current reward. **A Downvote**is showing a stake holder feels the contribution is worth less than the current reward.  At the end of the payout time period (7days) whatever the community consensus is, is then allocated to that specific contribution.  It is really that simple. 

#### How will it work?
The proposed pool would just allow 25% "free" downvotes. This means that a separate small pool would be consumed by the downvotes prior to consuming voting mana. Meaning an individual could use a limited amount of downvotes before having to use their "allocated votes" as we see today.  *There is no "reward" for downvoting, there will just now be a few "free" downvotes to use.*


#### What is the goal?
To encourage downvotes to be used as a curation mechanism, as well as abuse fighting on a larger scale. The goal is for those large stake holders to now be encouraged to go and downvote bid bot abuse as well as self voting spammers who are removing rewards from the shared pool while not returning value. 

The idea is that if someone who is currently posting spam and upvoting it now as the option to curate instead and earn a profit(50:50), they may be more likely to do so.. rather than spam and risk being downvoted. 

This also applies to bid bot users. If someone is abusing bid bots and is constantly downvoted by the community for doing so they will loose money, as they have to pay for those votes. If it is no longer profitable, they most likely will not do it anymore. 

The idea is to reward the behavior you want to see, and sometimes that means showing distaste for what you do not want to see.. and that is accomplished through downvotes. 


<br>

## 3) The Curve
<br>
#### What is it?
The curve is a proposal to go from the current linear curve to a convergent linear curve. Steemit Inc's own Vandeburg did a very technical analysis of it in [this post]( https://steemit.com/steem/@vandeberg/reward-curve-deep-dive) as well as an updated diagram from Steemit Inc. [seen here](https://steemit.com/steemit/@steemitblog/steemit-update-hf21-testnet-sps-eip-rewards-api-smts) for anyone wanting a technical description of it. 

**I am not going to talk about the algorithms or the curve.. rather just my perceived goal behind it...**

![curve.png](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmfCodwqYZvBrtBwS9acckeJKWyRAUG7yWsGuCWwjva8Zp/curve.png)

*Pretty isn't it?*

#### What is the goal?
One of the goals within this EIP proposal is to encourage organic content discovery by discouraging negative behavior. One of these negative behaviors touched on before is when individuals spam and self vote to gain a profit, while adding no value in return. While the downvote pool as well as 50:50 are designed to encourage them to do otherwise, downvotes can only happen if the abuse is seen. 

#### Abuse Fighting
One idea behind this curve is that it discourages those individuals from spreading their stake and this abuse over multiple accounts in smaller reward amounts to avoid being caught. Due to the curve changes making that not profitable, the idea is abusers would be pushed to aim for higher returns and then downvotes could be used to counter said abuse. If this abuse is no longer profitable, the hope is individuals will turn to other ways that are profitable with less risk attached.. as in **curation**(50:50).  Imagine if all the abusers just cast a vote on content instead.. *that's the idea.*

#### Curation
An additional aspect to this curve is that it gamifies curation a bit as well. Consider with the change to 50:50 that more and more individuals are encouraged to curate content, as they can actually make money doing so. Currently many just jump on a post they know has a big vote coming through auto votes, and sort of race to that "optimum" ROI time. 

Currently any vote cast before 15mins has a bit of a penalty to it, as before that time they are forfeiting a piece of their curation rewards pie.. but they also need to get there first. So many individuals forfeit this CR just to be there first, but when curation is now worth *more* they will be throwing away a good return and will most likely change that behavior. 

So when all the popular posts now become a race to the bottom.. as the race to become first now means you are throwing away rewards.. and the earlier and earlier the votes are cast, the less ROI they receive. The goal is that at this point it will be more profitable to find posts that don't have a large number of votes on them, aka the undiscovered gems. 

The idea here is to encourage the voting of the minimally rewarded content, as that is where the best profit will be. This could mean an increase to those content creators who go relatively unnoticed or unrewarded, as now it is actually  beneficial (and profitable) to vote them. 
<br>
### TDLR for Part Two - The EIP
The EIP is a proposal consisting of 3 components designed to work together to get the desired effect - Improve Content Discovery while discouraging negative behavior. 

<br>
#### My Thoughts on The EIP?
Many think I am against the EIP, I even was accused of having "resentment".. I am not either of those things. What I do dislike is how this is coming to be as well as the push to include so many economic changes within one hard fork when we cannot know what affect they will have. 

With all that aside though, I believe Steem needs an overhaul. 

I believe we need to encourage individuals to invest in STEEM and contribute in a positive way to the Steem ecosystem. That means we need to give them a reason to, that benefits them. I believe that having a system where we depend on altruistic behavior does not work, and most definitely is not sustainable. I believe we need to reward the behavior we want to see with our upvotes as well as our downvotes and make it actually profitable to contribute to the ecosystem in a positive way. 

I believe The EIP is an attempt to do these things. I also feel it is important to note that we don't know that these changes will have the impact that is desired, and we won't know until we try them. As there is no way to predict human behavior, all we can to is attempt to design a system that encourages the behavior we want to see. 

<br>
---

# What Happens Next
<br>
### - Test Net
Currently Steemit inc has a test net in place where witnesses and community members are testing the proposed code. Discussions are still being had about details, but at this point I believe they are as stands with the idea that further changes can be made when needed. 

### - Hard Fork Date Scheduled
When individuals feel the testing is sufficient, a date for the hard fork will be released. 

### - Consensus
On the scheduled date of the HF, there must be a consensus. Which means 17 of the top 20 witnesses must "approve" or "agree" to the new protocol by implementing the code, which will migrate the blockchain to the new protocol. Then and only then does the HF go into affect. 
<br>
---
<br>

# What does this mean for the community?
I think it's important to note that Steem in itself is an experiment, and that is not a negative thing. We are creating an economic society that has never been done before. We are doing revolutionary things... and with anything that has never been done before, there will  be trial and error along the way. But without the courage to try new things, explore and experiment, we will become stagnant and *not* be a part of the revolution. 

**I believe we are attempting to work towards something better, and these changes are part of that.** 
<br>
### What to expect
While no one can "predict" what things will look like after the HF, I think it may be helpful for the community to just have a possible "idea" of what it will look like and what the "hope" is. 

**Author Rewards**
With the implementation of the SPS and 50:50 component of the EIP, author rewards percentage of the pool will be decreased somewhere around 42.2%.

The goal or idea is though that with the combined components of the EIP taking effect, there will be less spam taking rewards and more individuals curating (as it's now profitable to do so).  Which could mean even though the author rewards percentage is lower, the reward pool will be bigger (less abuse taking it) and therefore the actual rewards an author receives will actually **increase.**

I believe these changes will take time to balance out, as with any changes, so I personally think we should prepare for an immediate decrease in the post payout we see. But to keep calm and let the system begin to take it's new form. It is my hope that over the few weeks after the hardfork, authors contributing positively to the ecosystem will begin to see their rewards increase again. *This is the goal.*

**Curation**
Do I believe that large stake holders who have been relatively inactive or in "set and forget" mode will all of a sudden start manually curating? **No.** Sorry, I just don't see that.  **BUT** if it is actually profitable for them to delegate to curation groups or follow manual curation trails, then why wouldn't they? It makes sense that individuals will always act in their best interest, and if it is in their best interest to use their stake to curate content (on their own or through a trail), it seems logical that some may do just that. *That's the hope.* 

This also applies to small accounts who are posting spam daily just to farm rewards, with the downvote actively being used to fight this, it will now be in their best interest to do something else... and curation is a possible source of revenue. 

**Downvotes**
I think the community is scared of this aspect and I can understand why, as downvotes have been used in an abusive manner in the past here. But I actually think that individuals need to consider what the majority does here rather than a few and when you begin to think that individuals will do what is in their best interest.. knocking down some of the abusers that are essentially taking rewards from everyone else is beneficial.. and with the downvote pool, they now no longer have to give up ROI on vote casts to fight it. 

I believe the first week will be a shit storm, I am not going to lie.. I think it will get a little ugly.. but I don't think "average" users have anything to worry about, as the targets will be set on bigger accounts. I believe the trending page will get a bit of a shake up, but only on the aspect of bid bot abuse. I believe DRAMA will moon, so stock up!

**My Advice?**
Relax, stay calm, don't panic if a bunch of whales are downvoting each other as quite frankly that just means more is going to the rewards pool that will be allocated to...who? **The Content Creators!**  It's the way the system was designed.. consensus on rewards through up and downvotes, as we all share that inflation pool. 

So, continue being you, keep doing what you do and let the dust settle. Then we can establish where we are, and decide on the most beneficial direction going forward. 
<br>

The Steem Community is strong, and we have survived 20 Hard Forks, we will survive this one too and hopefully thrive. *That's the goal.*
<br>
---
<br>
I hope this post is helpful.  My goal here is to simply provide the community who maybe want less of a "technical analysis" style post and more of a "friend to friend" style conversation. My answers are based on my understanding and opinions on the proposed concepts, and should not be taken as anything more than that. (I do want to thank those who have put up with my constant questions and debates at an attempt to fully grasp these proposed changes and their goals. Including  themarkymark, Eonwarped, Smooth, Crimsonclad and others.)

If you have any questions or want to yell at me, please feel free to do so in the comments. :)

<br>
Much Love and Steem On,

Justine
<br>
*If you appreciate my contributions to the Steem ecosystem, please consider voting for our community focused witness [Here](https://app.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=c-squared&approve=1)*
<br>
<br>
**Edit-** I will be promoting this post using the [Steemium Promotion Service](https://steemium.com/#/promotion) to ensure it is seen by those who may need it most. I have spent 100SBD to do so. 

</div>
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@chesatochi ·
I start to feel real negativity with this hard fork and I believe it will not be accepted in the current form.

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@justineh ·
$0.47
I personally believe the majority of negativity is due to a lack of communication and therefore understanding. It's normal for individuals to be upset about any change that they feel may negatively affect them in one way or another. If an individual has a clear understanding of something and the actual goals, in my opinion that may cut down on negativity. That was my hope for this post anyways. Time will tell.
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@chesatochi · (edited)
$0.06
You might be good in politic and play well with the words. The HF21 is not beneficial for most people in the current form and might create more damage than benefit!
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@abh12345 ·
$0.02
This post contains an excellent explanation of the EIP and its main factors. Bravo :)
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@justineh ·
$0.18
Thank you, I appreciate that Asher!
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@michealb ·
$0.04
yes Bravo!
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@tts ·
To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.
[![](https://s18.postimg.org/51o0kpijd/play200x46.png)](http://ec2-52-72-169-104.compute-1.amazonaws.com/justineh__normie-talk-hf21-explained-sps-eip-what-it-is-and-what-happens-next.mp3)
Brought to you by [@tts](https://steemit.com/tts/@tts/introduction). If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.
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@dronegraphica ·
$0.02
I've read a few on HF21 and this has been the most informative. Thanks for laying it out like this!

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/dronegraphica)
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@justineh ·
$0.15
Thank you and I am glad you found it helpful! I wasn't sure if I was rambling too much or not :P
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@dana-edwards ·
Your post is much better. It explains SPS but still I think SPS needs to have a mechanism where it always produces something profitable.
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@justineh · (edited)
Thank you, I appreciate that. 

I believe SPS funding is being seen as a tax, and while I understand that, I feel it is a bit of a misunderstanding of the idea of the system itself. The shared pool is based on inflation and therefore everything that is spent from it is bringing down the value, *unless* whatever it funds adds value back to the ecosystem itself. 

This inflation should then be allocated to what adds value and can return that value. Currently content rewards are receiving the highest allocation of this inflation. Is it returning the most value? Could it be beneficial to allocate some of that to a system that may bring in additional value?

As an example - if the SPS is used to fund a marketing plan that brings in additional investment and users, it has actively added value *back* to the ecosystem. Or if the SPS is used to develop a mobile app that somehow solves the onboarding and/or retention issues, it has added substantial value back to the ecosystem. 

While I agree that a mechanism that somehow produces profits makes sense, essentially the idea is that this proposals that will be approved will add value back to the ecosystem over and above what was funded initially. If the proposal adds no value to the ecosystem, theoretically it would not be funded. 

Also, there could be a proposal for a "burn" which would then just cut the inflation which increases price to so supply and demand. There are many different ways this could be used to put profits back in the system itself. 

My opinion on the SPS is it gives the community the power to encourage these beneficial improvements and the shared funding to do it. 

I do very much understand the concern though and as someone who only makes STEEM when I post.. I get how removing anything from the pool sounds terrifying.. but I also see how we need improvements here and I think if we had them the STEEM I currently hold would be worth way more. So I few it makes sense to use this shared inflation pool for just that.
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@smooth ·
What do you mean by profitable?
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@dana-edwards ·
Exactly, the community needs to define what profitable should mean but if you're going to fund projects they need to be profitable in order to justify it. Otherwise what justifies it exactly? It's like a VC or shared fund run on votes but the whole ecosystem funds it so shouldn't it profit the whole ecosystem?
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@riverflows ·
Book marking and sharing with posse. Cheers love. Still digesting and forming opinion..

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/riverflows)
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@justineh ·
Awesome! Let me know if you have any other questions or if I need to clarify any of my ramblings. <3
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@smooth ·
Excellent explanations.
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@justineh ·
$0.15
Thank you, I really appreciate that. *Also, thank you for letting me pick your brain and debating me to no end. It allowed me to at least understand the desired effects.*
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@coininstant · (edited)
Oh Wow, I did not realize it was going to be like a go fund me for steemit! Sounds good to me! Thanks for posting the human readable version!
# I don’t know about all the little details and intricacies, however if it doesn’t work i’m sure we can just keep  evolving it. Won’t be the end of the world if it does not work!
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vote details (10)
@iflagtrash ·
$0.12
Look at poor little @coininstant being trolled like the bitch he is by an automated bot.  Jump monkey, jump!!  Good boy.
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@shovonhossain ·
its good
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@c-squared ·
c-squared-comment
<div class="pull-left">https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmaSUWYsJ3AMUEMRqCSaoKJVNvtsbKm4fNAtmTidr8Uggc/C%20Squared%20Logo%20Transparency%20200px.png</div><br>This post was shared in the <a href="https://discord.gg/B8JFmJ4">Curation Collective Discord community</a> for curators, and upvoted and resteemed by the @c-squared community account after manual review.<br/>@c-squared runs a <a href="https://steemit.com/witness/@c-cubed/announcing-the-launch-of-the-new-c-squared-witness">community witness</a>. Please consider using one of your witness votes on us <a href ="https://steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=c-squared&approve=1">here</a>
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@carlgnash · (edited)
$0.89
Man I hope this HF gets rejected.  Not holding out high hopes for that of course.  Why does an obviously beneficial thing (worker proposal system, although funding it from reward pool instead of from vesting interest is... beyond stupid) have to get bundled up with something that at best is a "try it and see if it works" and is actually more likely a "terrible for everyone except bid bot users and delegators/owners" (honestly, we don't have to "wait and see" what behavior changes will come - an incremental incentive to "good behavior" that still doesn't even come close to matching the rewards possible from delegating to bid bots will not have any appreciable change in user behavior - that is basic game theory, we can say with 100% certainty that the vast majority of people will still choose the most self-benefiting course of action, which is still not aligned with anything like behavior we would like to see.  Interestingly this will likely drive even more people to delegate to bid bots as there is no risk of downvotes to a delegator there as opposed to self voting, and the new reward curve ensures that you *have* to use a bid bot unless you are a huge investor to begin with, otherwise you lose out).  Gah.  
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vote details (25)
@eonwarped ·
$0.29
I don't see this at all as "terrible for everyone but bid bots". There's plenty to suggest that the equilibrium will shift a bit. Every component to this EIP is assuming maximizing behavior to boot, so not sure where you are getting this conclusion from.

50/50. +Curation leakage, +curation bonus. Less delegators, less upside for bot.

Convergent Linear. Small bids become useless, less demand. Also upside for curation. More effective to downvote higher posts. Less profitable to split votes on many posts.

Downvotes. Risk for bidders, less demand (hence profitability).
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vote details (8)
@carlgnash · (edited)
$0.19
I am tempted to say you must be joking, but I will assume you are serious.  There is no possible way that the downvote pool can exert negative pressure against bidbot use.  The amount of SP controlled by the "pro bidbot camp" if you want to call it that - the amount of SP controlled by users who directly delegate to bidbots, own bidbots, and/or use bidbots, is *far greater* than the amount of SP controlled by accounts that actively use SP* and oppose bid bots.  Good luck trying to win a flag war against bid bots.  If you think for one second that any kind of organized campaign to flag posts that use bidbots wouldn't meet organized counterflag opposition, then you obviously haven't been paying attention.  The rest of the measures could all have been carefully crafted to create *even more perverse incentives to use bid bots*.  50/50 curation... you may not have looked at the big picture of curation, bid bots already earn the vast majority of curation under current system.  Bid bot operation will be instantly far more profitable.  There will be zero change to the incentive to delegate to bid bots, that is currently and will still be the optimal strategy even over 100% self-voting, so predictably, it will be the strategy that the majority of SP holders take to optimize investment.  And the worst thing is the reward curve change, which actually incentivizes users to use bid bots.  Anyone who can't get a post organically past the threshold where the new curve passes the old curve, will make less than they used to (which is... everyone except whales and the small number of users lucky enough to get whale votes).  Anyone who uses a bid bot to get their post past that point in the curve will make more than they used to.  Add it all up and we should see a large increase in the use of bid bots and a large increase in the profitability of bid bots.

*The "actively use SP" distinction is drawn of course because of the huge amounts of SP held by Stinc and not used.  If Stinc wanted to use their stake to flag big bot use it would be another story of course, but that wouldn't require a hard fork.  Stinc could end bid bot use overnight if they wanted to.  They don't.
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vote details (8)
@pibara ·
$0.03
Run a bit of historic data through the new rules. It is very likely the bid bot economy will get a huge boost from the EIP. The narrative for the EIP is interesting, but based more in wishfull thinking than in actual data or simulations. But anyhow, there is no stopping this at this point. Best thing to hope for is a contingency plan for when the wishfull thinking turns out not to pan out and the EIP turns out to *hurt* the economy.
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vote details (2)
@smooth ·
$0.11
>  Why does ... have to get bundled up

Many of us agree with the concept of not bundling in the abstract. There is also the practical consideration of costs of hard forks and not being able to do them very often.

The merits of EIP are discussed elsewhere including by me so I won't rehash that here.
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@prisminside ·
$0.03
I think we need some kind of a forum for these kind of discussions, chat rooms and posts that get buried after a week won't cut it anymore.
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@carlgnash ·
$0.05
Meh I think the "cost of hard fork" argument is a cop out.  In the first year of Steem there were... 17 hard forks?  And since then there have been 3?  There is no good reason to bundle the economic incentives with the DAO, with the exception of the obvious reason that the economic incentives have much weaker support than the DAO and might not actually be approved on their own.  Which to me, is the primary argument for why it shouldn't be bundled.  A bunch of half-baked measures with a net effect that is hard to predict (some claim - I don't think it is hard to predict personally, I think it is a loss for all users except the very largest users and bid bot owners) shouldn't be slipped through on the back of something with wide support.
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@enjar ·
$0.21
The troubling thing I still see is people assume inactive/passive investors even want to become/have the time to be active ones in the first place. 

Chance are many of inactive/passive just delegate and only check in quarterly or monthly to ensure payments are still flowing.  At best they might have someone managing a crypto fund for them charging a flat fee which would not cover the costs of manual curation. It’s not like they are going get a physical letter mailed to their house explaining HF21 by Steemit LLC or the owners of the bot they have delegated to. 


Then you have the mind-numbing time consuming and troubling issue of trying to distribute those kinds of votes the large accounts have.  If an investor can afford $1 million high-risk investment (which is what this is) chances are it’s not a very large amount of their total wealth or they are able to recover quite quickly if it ends in a total loss. Which means this is not a lot money to them regardless of what curation is paid. 


 Unless they are high risk-taking junkies in which case I don’t see them being inactive/passive with such an investment when they can shape the landscape to a certain degree and have fun doing so. Either case purely investing for dividends and forgoing the impacts on the initial principal amount is a sure way to end broke.  We keep acting like curation dividends is a magic bullet that will fix everything. 


An active investor with millions in influence wanting to maximize profit would make their own dapp/partner with others and use it to push users towards it. Not with the goal of earning dividends paid out via curation.  Rather massively increase their principal investment entirely. Not to mention I would not be shocked if several projects on the blockchain would already have an evaluation in the millions to tens of millions of dollars if someone wanted to buy them out. Far greater than what their current SP is or what it will earn them in any reasonable amount of time. 


End of the day Witness are more or less acting like they don’t have a choice if they wish to remain a Witness. It’s time for everyone else to find ways to adapt to the future landscape.   That is after all what we should expect from  game theory.
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vote details (7)
@tygertyger ·
$0.04
Agreed! instead of just finally doing the right thing and disallowing bidbots let's just fool around and hope for the best.  As for the downvotes there are some pretty rabid downvote trolls that go after people they are going to be thrilled to get more downvote power!  What would really benefit all is equal votes for everyone but that is never going to happen ... bidbot users are going to make a ton more money and us real content creators will get even less than we are getting now what a mess ...
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@novacadian ·
Disallowing bit bots would be pretty hard if not impossible to undertake. You may be interested in [my humble proposal](https://steemit.com/steem/@novacadian/a-decentralized-capcha-annonymous-proof-of-brain-verification) of how they may be countered.
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@justineh ·
$0.20
I agree with the not bundling all in one, as do many others. I also agree that this will be a β€œtry it and see” as most economic changes are, but I don’t see the benefit to bid bots here if I’m honest.

 I do think that the only aspect of the EIP that will effectively change behavior is the downvote pool, and that will only work if it’s used by large stake holders in a positive way. Many have said they will, but yeah we will have to wait and see for that. 

While I don’t necessarily agree with all the proposed aspects or how they are being bundled, I do agree we need to make some changes. 

Unfortunately it’s hard to communicate that or come to a consensus as a community as we have many users who also somehow think that β€œvotes should be equal” no matter of stake, or that individuals who have large stake should just give it away for free.. and then those same individuals feel that is completely ridiculous that a small portion of a shared pool (that they don’t even own) could be redirected to a project that benefits the whole chain. 

A bit of entitlement and short term thinking, complete lack of understanding of the Steem ecosystem, as well as being ruined with the idea of β€œcome blog and get paid” has left us with unrealistic expectations from both small and large stake holders alike. Plus the rewarding of contributions that only remove value without adding anything in return. If we continue down this path there won’t be anything left imo. 

Anyways, I fully support a funded SPS, in fact I would like to see more inflation go to it.. as I think it could add true value.  As far as EIP, I’m not sold on it entirely and would very much prefer to see it put forward on its own.. but I do think the tandem of the three components make sense in a way, I just am concerned for what that would look like for many users. As we really won’t know until it’s attempted.
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vote details (5)
@hobo.media · (edited)
$0.17
Actually, I would argue that we are seeing the success of crypto social sites that do reward evenly by giving all participants equal voting authority. Minds.com and LBRY are drawing in the big names from Youtube, Twitter and the other places while Steem gets a link posted at best. Stake-based social medias might just not work, or perhaps most people just don't like the unfairness of the influence it gives the minority over the majority. Either way, I'd say Minds.com and LBRY, though young projects, are kicking Steem's ass.
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vote details (6)
@carlgnash ·
I certainly hope you are right but any way I slice it, this looks like a win for bid bot operators and a loss for all users except for large dolphins, whales, and users lucky enough to get votes from large dolphins and whales.
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@pangoli ·
TBH this
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@geekgirl ·
$0.19
I like 50/50, neutral about the curve & separate downvote pool, dislike the idea of SPS taking away from author/curation pool.
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vote details (3)
@carlgnash ·
$0.05
Funding the SPS from vested stake inflation makes way more sense to me than taking it from author/curation pool.  What does a couple of % of inflation matter to a large investor when the variations in price on a weekly basis are more than that?  I don't think it would even move the needle as far as an investor deciding whether or not to invest and stake a large amount of steem, while taking it from author/curator will definitely move the needle for actual users of the network.
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vote details (2)
@trafalgar ·
$0.05
I fought for it coming from vesting

lost
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@pibara ·
$0.13
The biggest problem I think isn't that this HF is going to happen, the biggest problem is that if things turn out as bad as you and I fear it will, there apparently is no contingency plan. As if HF20 never happened and didn't show us how hard we need solid contingency planning.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@carlgnash ·
$0.05
Well, actually, this is a regression from HF20.  There *was* a contingency plan in place during HF20 - there was a "kill switch" coded into the hard fork that would have allowed the witnesses to switch back to the old bandwidth system without needing another hardfork or patch.  Stinc just asked the witnesses not to use it during the period where the resource credits were stabilizing and no one could transact on the blockchain.  Something like that is desperately needed here, but we have gone *backwards* since HF20 and there is no kill switch coded to reverse the proposed changes if things go south.
πŸ‘  
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@thedarkhorse ·
$0.30
This is much like how politicians work in the US. Take what was a simple proposal for a HF to fund who knows what...which if run correctly will be a good thing and add in a bunch of other ideas at the same time that aren't related so they pass because voting no would be voting against funding Steem's future.

I agree reject this and put it into at least 2 HF's.
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@crypto.piotr ·
I also hope that this fork will be rejected @carlgnash
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@ganjafarmer ·
Some crazy days ahead.  Now I'll also nail go the woods for a few more days.  Let's see the new world!

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/ganjafarmer)
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@justineh ·
Well don’t leave for the woods yet, there isn’t a date released and therefore no HF happening right now 😜
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@martie7 ·
$0.05
Great  well written post! Thanks. 
I just put it here.

[A serious attempt at repairing the STEEM Economic Improvement Proposal (eip) for HF21](https://steemit.com/hf21/@pibara/a-serious-attempt-at-repairing-the-steem-economic-improvement-proposal-eip-for-hf21#@martie7/ptd1xv)

I think we have alternative.
πŸ‘  ,
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@justineh ·
Thanks!

Yes I’ve seen the post and shared it as well. There are many who took part in the discussion and the comments section reflects that I believe.
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@jumps ·
Much better understanding article and more normies friendly like me πŸ˜‘.. thank you for the information regarding upcoming HF.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/jumps)
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@justineh ·
You’re so welcome! And that’s what I’m here for 😊
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@thecryptodrive ·
This is the best post so far, I have linked it in the forum for archive and reference purposes https://neosteem.com/topics/thecryptodrive/tokenbb-topic-best-hf21-summary-posts-1560989821199
πŸ‘  
πŸ‘Ž  , , , , , ,
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@thedegensloth ·
Very good post, But to be more clear this should be seen as an investment by the community. This will help secure the chain and allow us to get forks out quicker and add features we feel we would like to add.

As for the investment of inflation, most of this will likely be paid by bots and whales since they already get a large amount of the payout. The average users will pay little in comparison to the whales and bots who will need to pay there fair share to the development of the chain instead of only bleeding the chain.

Many people complain about steemit taking to long to do things as well. This lowers this dependency and will hope our chain to become more competitive instead of slowly losing its ranks. Steem can no longer afford to be the taker chain. We need to give back some to make sure we can secure our chains future.
πŸ‘  
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@oldtimer ·
$0.18
>>We need to give back some to make sure we can secure our chains future<<

Witnesses included in my opinion.
πŸ‘  , ,
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@novacadian ·
MIRA seems to have opened the door to further decentralize the governance process. Twenty-one is just a hard coded number, more or less, in my opinion. 

What seems more important is a more decentralized mining process affecting the distribution of STEEM rewarded through mining.
πŸ‘  
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@kus-knee ·
Agreed!
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@johneyreacko ·
$0.11
By making downvotes free will their impact still be the same? We could be unleashing much larger flag wars
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@justineh ·
The β€œfree downvotes” are limited so I honestly don’t believe we will see a negative impact to normal users. Sure there will be a few unjust flags thrown around (as there are now), but I believe ultimately the targets will be large abusers. 

It depends on what you mean by flag wars, as yes I think if large stake holders start coming together to take down large abusers there will be some back and forth, but this is actually good for the ecosystem and will result in more rewards in the pool to be allocated out to content creators. 

As I mentioned at the end of the post, I do think it will take some time for the dust to settle and things to balance out, but I don’t think downvotes will be an issue.
πŸ‘  
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@novacadian · (edited)
Might we be only giving additional flagging power to present day offenders; not mentioning anyone's dear old uncle by name? 

Free or not, if one does not use them now they aren't likely to start, in my opinion. Perhaps flags should cost *more* instead of lowering their value.
πŸ‘  
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@carlgnash ·
... but the large stakeholders are bid bot owners/operators and delegators.  The argument that large stakeholders will use the downvote pool to flag bid bot crap posts seems like such a flimsy argument that I have a hard time believing it is being advanced.  That is basically asking people to take action against their own financial short term best interest - which would be to *not* flag bid bot crap posts.  Not attacking you personally here, I think you did a great job both summarizing the changes and presenting what the goals are.  I just find it hard to believe that anyone who has witnessed Steem in action thinks that the large stakeholders are going to do anything except continue to support the bid bot economy.  Do you remember the account that used to comment on bid bot posts with the totals spent to boost the post?  That account didn't even flag the bid bot posts, and encountered organized flag resistance from bid bot money which killed it.  That to me seems the obvious end game in any attempt to flag bid bot posts.  The bid bot side controls the  majority of active SP, so the bid bot side will win any flag battle.
πŸ‘  
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@valued-customer ·
Censors already exist on Steem with no other purpose.  They will greatly expand their operations, at least by 25%, but given the greater impact a delegation can have due to the increase in flags potential, I expect many more censors to arise.  Also, Bernie is gonna go nuts.

Believe me, I am familiar with the problem.
πŸ‘  ,
πŸ‘Ž  ,
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@iflagtrash ·
It has been determined that you are trash, therefore, you have received a negative vote.<br><br>PLEASE NOTE: If you engage with the trash above you also risk receiving a negative vote on your comment.
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@wakeupnd · (edited)
$0.18
Seems kind of lame that witnesses aren't taking a pay cut too to fund this SPS project. They should be taking a 15% pay cut too if this is going to increase the value of Steem and benefit them. Why put all the burden on content creators?
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@justineh ·
$0.14
Well content creators aren’t taking a 15% cut to fund the SPS first of all, the whole entire author/curator part of the inflation pool will be reduced by 10% and redirected to the SPS, or at least it’s how it’s proposed. 

I am not against the funding being funneled from many places and it was asked for those deciding on that amount to give a bit of detail about how they came to that conclusion. I know there was some mention of allocating from the witnesses portion made little change as it only consists of 10% of the entire pool (versus author/curator being 75%) as well as it impacting the back up witnesses more than those actually in the top 20. I will leave that for them to explain though as I’m not sure of the specifics that led them to the decision.

What I will say is that content currently receives the largest cut from the inflation pool and therefore should be returning the most value. To me, as a content creator and curator, I think it makes sense to redirect some of that inflation to an aspect that could essentially improve all of our investments and make that STEEM we are rewarded worth even more. 

The goal is longevity of STEEM and increasing its value. Proving a mechanism that encourages beneficial development and improvements as well as providing a decentralized way to fund it from a shared inflation pool to me is the way to make sure we all benefit long term.
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@gduran ·
Aren't content creators also taking a hit when their rewards go from 75% to 50%?
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@wakeupnd ·
$0.07
Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up. It still should be 10% reduction across the board and not just placed on the shoulders of content creators unless the witnesses are willing to donate their increased value in steem from these SPS projects to all us. I'd be in favor of that :)
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@bil.prag ·
how should care more about steem price? minnow content creator that gets maybe 1 steem per day if he/she is posting every day, or witness that gets 250?
 
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@hobo.media ·
They are losing even more money than that... You have to remember that not only is the total author/curation pool going from 75% to 65%  but that authors are losing 25% of the pool they have been getting.  So, in theory the curators were suppose to be getting 18.75% and authors 56.25% of the total reward pool, and after this change it would be curators receiving 32.50% and authors receiving 32.50% of the total reward pool. This means authors are taking a 23.75% loss here. 

Sure, there might be way more upvotes out of the deal, but that's a big maybe and 23.75% of the total reward pool is a lot to make up. Not saying it can't work, but its a big maybe, and now there will be a 25% free downvoting feature which means people will downvote for any stupid reason they can think of downvoting for.
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@phoneinf ·
"Proving a mechanism that encourages beneficial development and improvements as well as providing a decentralized way to fund it from a shared inflation pool to me is the way to make sure we all benefit long term." you seem to be missing that millions of dollars have already been wasted on useless projects, can never increase the value of Steem by punish content creators.
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@valued-customer ·
We can certainly do that without being taxed.  When we look at the evolution of taxpayer funded entities today in America, I bet most of us would prefer to be able to voluntarily fund those we think are a good idea and well implemented, rather than be compelled to pay for all the fedbloat.

I am also sure that proposals incapable of securing voluntary funding will not secure funding for damn good reasons.  Lastly, the whales currently extract ~90% of all rewards, leaving actual content creators (which whales are not) with about ~10%.  This SPS funding tax will land on content creators most of all, and I expect this to have a dramatic impact on retention, particularly when coupled with author rewards halved in favor of curation, and the damage the free flags will do when censors expand their suppression of free speech for free.
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@hobo.media ·
Honestly, if you had to do it to a group, authors were likely the best choice. If you cut the "interest" category it could severely hinder the delegation economy. If you cut curators then what would be the point to curate? They already get a small enough amount that it almost doesn't matter. Cut witnesses? Yeah, well, they need to profit, like miners, its crucial.
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@valued-customer ·
Not only that, but MIRA should be decreasing the costs of being a witness.

I think the problem for consensus witnesses is that if they don't pander to the whales, they'll lose their positions as consensus witnesses, as the whales will just unvote them and vote in witnesses that will do as they're told.  The golden rule is that them with the gold rule.
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@iflagtrash ·
It has been determined that you are trash, therefore, you have received a negative vote.<br><br>PLEASE NOTE: If you engage with the trash above you also risk receiving a negative vote on your comment.
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@prydefoltz · (edited)
The number one reason people don't curate more is not bidbots, it is the limited TIME in the day. Unless engagement is directly linked to payment, nothing is going to change. Link rewards to engagement and not just SP.  The situation will be ameliorated. People will do what is in their financial best interest. If they need to do some curating to get their payout, they will make time for it. 

A 50/50 split only has you adding more to the same baskets and taking it away from the people who are actually engaging on the platform.

And let's be real. The downvote pool will change nothing. There is no way a little fish is going to downvote a dolphin or whale regardless of the lack quality to their post. But it does mean that bigger fish can now bully little fish for free. 

Please don't go through with this hardfork, you 'll be cutting our growth off at the knees.
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@justineh ·
Based on your response, I don’t think you read the post, so I’m not sure how to respond.

Please read it and let me know what you think, then I will gladly discuss. 

*PS I have nothing to do with wether the HF happens or not any more than any other community member actively trying to ensure the discussion about pros and cons occurs.*
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@prydefoltz · (edited)
Yes. I read the post. I understand you do not make the choice. I was using this space as a forum and my comment wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you felt personally attacked or something. It was not intended. Wishing you a good day:)
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@brianturner ·
The SPS sounds PERFECT and I really hope it gets accepted and hardforked in.  100% upvote for this post, thanks for breakin everything down!
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@abitcoinskeptic ·
Very informative.

I just wrote my own post where I get lost in thought trying to see how they will all fit together.

Individually, not so bad. Combined a potential disaster.

I suspect our voting power will be decreased by over half. We will be forced to curate. Whales will likely still be immune to downvotes.

We will see a platform where the same people get huge payouts over and over again while everyone else banks secretly off curation hard to notice schemes, or hardly at all.
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@dmilliz ·
Very well explained, thank you very much. You should be on the communication team.  The way I fee about it all, damned if we do, damned if we don't. So might as well try the EIP .  I was on the fence about this all, but things cannot remain the same if steem is to evolve. Yup, shvt is gonna get fugly but we shall see a new culture  birthed from the flames. It will eventually cool down and be just steeming right.
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@bil.prag ·
$0.11
> The idea is that since that is the group receiving the largest cut, that redirecting 10% of that inflation to the SPS would be a good place to start.

what is forgot is that 65% is shared by 50.000 (i have no idea how many active people are here) and that 10% is shared by lets say 100 people (but mainly by first 20-30 on the list)



> It is no secret that we need more content consumers on Steem. We have great content, we need people to read it and reward it though.

and that will be around maybe 200-300 people? because minnows and new people will have no influence on rewards, especially on rewarding people that are not discovered by those 200-300 people. 

> The goal is for those large stake holders to now be encouraged to go and downvote bid bot abuse as well as self voting spammers who are removing rewards from the shared pool while not returning value.

i can't wait to see this. (as someone who never used bid bots and have no idea who really holds them i kinda assume it is runned by people with a lot of steem. also the selfupvoting spam is really problem of big acc because someone that has 200SP and is selfupvoting is really not harming the distribution)

also i hope that i am completely wrong and as this is a blockchain you will be able to point fingers at me till the end of time as a man who did not believe and was really stupid.

just want this HF happening tomorrow so i can just not read about it and continue doing my stupid nonprofit things...

Great post and explaining  
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@nathen007 ·
$0.03
>what is forgot is that 65% is shared by 50.000 (i have no idea how many active people are here) and that 10% is shared by lets say 100 people (but mainly by first 20-30 on the list)

Exactly! and.....no response duly noted.
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@justineh · (edited)
Or maybe I’ve answered hundreds of questions today (not even a top 20 witness), it’s 1am and I am reviewing questions to fully answer them in the morning. 

Or maybe you’re right *it must all be a conspiracy*
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@justineh ·
$0.04
I’ll answer this in short version and then come back to give more detail in the morning if needed, as I don’t want good ole Nathan to think I’m avoiding it. 

Yes the rewards pool is split among a larger group of individuals. Yes witnesses make about $30k a year at current prices, which is relatively low in terms of block producers over multi block chains. Witnesses also have expenses and are solely responsible for producing blocks, the essence of the chain, protecting said chain as well as many other things. 

In comparison, what are we authors responsible for? We make some content that may or may not be anything good and we collect our rewards. Many don’t even invest or buy steem, just gain and cash out. 

I believe content plays an important role in Steem and I believe the community adds a huge amount of value, but I do not think the issue is lack of rewards for authors, I think it’s rewarding crap authors too much and not rewarding the good ones. I believe we are not rewarding the behavior we want to see and not rewarding positive contributions to the ecosystem. 

If I’m honest, in its current state I believe much of the inflation is wasted on garbage that is pulling the price of STEEM down.. and I would like to attempt to use that for something that potentially could benefit us all. 

Yes I think it would be the most fair to use a percentage from multiple places to fund the SPS and I will continue to communicate that request to anyone I can. 

As far as content consumers, we need all sizes of them. Small minnows should be able to make a return or profit on something other than posting 4x a day at an attempt to make a $1.. there should be incentive to do something else. 

Also, there should be some sort of incentive for individuals to buy STEEM and stake it.. therefore more and more people do it. If it is profitable for an individual to invest, stake and curate.. more people will, and that is what we want. 

Because at the end of the day, if no one is buying STEEM it becomes worthless. 

I cannot say what these changes will bring or even if I fully support them, but I can say what we do have currently is not working so it makes sense to try something else. 

If it goes through, I hope it improves things.. and if it’s a disaster I will be very loudly demanding a change πŸ™‚

*I like the idea of no more HF talk too.. I’m so tired* 😜

I get the concerns and I share them. My goal is to help share information as well as voicing concerns from the community. Please continue to share these concerns as well as reach out to the top 20 witnesses, as ultimately this is their decision.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@bil.prag ·
$0.02
i think no one is accusing you of anything, you just did a good job explaining it and got an exposure on the post so people write where the talk is.

how do we know the system is broken? well, for fuck's sake few weeks ago i was in the top 200 curators for accounts that have less than 55 rep. Me, with 2500 SP. I should not be in the first 200 curators of anything and i am a lot of times in photography and music.
I just don't see that this will change anything for the better for minnows and new accounts. my vote will be worth less on those new accounts, supporting people that engage on my posts will be not possible, and my below average content will earn 30% less.

No one that is for this change and has the power to influence it did not answer, what will happen to "small" accounts after the HF. Only answer is it will be great for everyone...
sometimes i feel that a lot of big acc here are like:
https://youtu.be/RKMNPQ35OUc 

 
πŸ‘  ,
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@machnbirdsparo ·
I would go even further to say that content is Steem.

Rewarding no-effort authors is just a waste of time. Over the long-term so are posts meant merely to move self votes.

Mostly agree with you. Just think that the clearer picture the overall community can get, the better. 

Speaking of clarity, I believe brevity and truth often hold hands. Centralized systems run red tape, and as such, even if I were an attorney on retainer, I would dislike working this post. Not that I disliked swimming these waters, but I am not a retired millionaire.

Does illustrate how much people need to vent. It is FB'sLIBRA week after all.
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@valued-customer ·
>"what are we authors responsible for?"

It is content that creates any value in Steem.  dApps, blogs, games, all that content is the only reason people come here.  Without it, some nerds might trade Steem amonst themselves, but Steem would not have any value on the market - because there'd be no market.  Creators are that market.  Chase them away, and the value of Steem vanishes.
πŸ‘  
πŸ‘Ž  ,
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@valued-customer ·
>"what is forgot is that 65% is shared by 50.000 (i have no idea how many active people are here) and that 10% is shared by lets say 100 people (but mainly by first 20-30 on the list)"

Actually, due to the weight of the stake of whales, they actually get about ~90% of rewards, all 35 of them, and the other 50k of us share the remaining ~10%.

Othewise you're completely spot on.
πŸ‘  
πŸ‘Ž  ,
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vote details (3)
@iflagtrash ·
It has been determined that you are trash, therefore, you have received a negative vote.<br><br>PLEASE NOTE: If you engage with the trash above you also risk receiving a negative vote on your comment.
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@tggr ·
Thank you, it is probably one of the best explanation I’ve come across so far. Problem with all the other post’s is they are not written to be readable by people who Steem ecosystem so desperately wants to attract.
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@ucukertz ·
$0.12
Well, the official announcements do need to be technical so the geeks can see what's going on.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@treeplanter ·
Thanks for your donation
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Plant trees with @treeplanter and get paid for it!
My Steem Power = 21548.94
Thanks a lot!
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![treeplantermessage_ok.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdeFhTevmcmLvubxMMDoYBoNSaz4ftt7PxktmLDmF2WGg/treeplantermessage_ok.png)
</center>
πŸ‘  ,
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@novacadian ·
>...  by people who Steem ecosystem so desperately wants to attract.

The question of who one wants to attract to *The Chain* has been on my mind since partaking in @nathanmars #SEVEN77 Twitter campaign. 

So far, my conclusion is that one of STEEM's greatest strengths is its censor resistence. With the mass de-platforming of many content creators on corporate social media platforms, should they find their way and good welcome on the STEEM blockchain then eyes should follow in my opinion.
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@kingscrown ·
great writeup
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@justineh ·
Thank you!
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@bitcoinflood · (edited)
$0.02
So to make it short you are taking funds from authors and curators and creating a fund to get stuff built ? But I mean look at the millions of bucks that where thrown away last year with no result and still no SMT. Leave it to the authors and curators thank you, at least they market and help the community grow.
πŸ‘  ,
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@nathen007 ·
I absolutely agree. I think the SPS system is ridiculous and controlled by a few. How is going to encourage external investment?
πŸ‘  
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@smooth · (edited)
SPS is not controlled by a few. Every single Steem stakeholder gets to vote on proposals, just as they currently get to vote on content. Sure the stake distribution isn't all that flat to say the least but this applies equally to the existing reward voting. To the extent that it has any validity at all, your comment is more about Steem in general than about anything specific to SPS.
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@shadowspub ·
$0.13
no, the SPS is important. It will give developers a chance to get their projects funded and the community opportunity to vote on what will be funded. I don't have a big issue with giving up some author reward to fund that. 

I have an issue with giving up author rewards to fund the SPS AND then getting the remaining rewards cut again.
πŸ‘  
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@joelsegovia ·
Ok, content creators have been reduced from 75% to 65% in the rewards pool calculation, then they are further shopped down from 75% of the post payout to 50%... Let's see if this really encourages content creators to use this platform. I thought that preventing spam was a task for which Resource Credits were created for. I am really doubtful that this will encourage content creators, whales already have proven they just don't care, top witnesses are more than happy since they have a budget of 30k $ worth of steem at current prices while nodes costs are around 5k $ (aggroed's figures). 

Hopefully I'm wrong and all this ends as a good change for the platform we all love.

Best regards.
πŸ‘  
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@dera123 ·
$0.36
You can't take the hf numbers and use them for the current post rewards, that's not how it works because we have to expect some changes in voting behaviours. 

I am sure if an author only gets upvotes from bid bots then he will earn less after the hf. If an author produces good posts and allready gets a good amount of votes then he will get even more votes after the hf. Will these votes will be enough to fill up the 75%->50% reduction? Nobody can tell for sure but many ppl forget that an author can also vote and benefit from the change of the curation rewards so we have to look at the whole system.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/dera123)
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@joelsegovia ·
I truly hope you're right on that one, a social media platform success is not build be the quality work of a few hundreds of great content creators but in the few millions of regular users who engage on that platform on a daily basis... Steem offers a (not so unique) opportunity to monetize your content and your engagement without middle men. If that is Steem Unique Selling Proposition I don't see how this proposal will boos the ability for the many thousands of average users to boos their ability to improve their income from their usage of the platform (gaming, working out, sharing personal photos, commenting, etc). 

The way I see things unfolding will benefit a few at the cost of the many. In social media business this is not a good direction to take specially when competition such as voice, whaleshares and Facebook's Libra are that close.

Thank you for your feedback, I really hope this hf results in a positive change for us all.

Best regards.
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@promobot ·
re-justineh-normie-talk-hf21-explained-sps-eip-what-it-is-and-what-happens-next-20190620t022840045z
@steemium purchased a 30.14% vote from @promobot on this post.

*If you disagree with the reward or content of this post you can purchase a reversal of this vote by using our curation interface http://promovotes.com
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (1)
@d4rkflow ·
I'm against this EIP cutting author's rewards who take time to make a content to give to bots basically, whales will not curate they will just run bots and profit like passive income this will not bring people to read and content creators will leave. 
πŸ‘  
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@justineh · (edited)
I’m sort of against authors who take 2 mins to make a crap post on sharetosteem taking from the reward pool πŸ€·πŸ»β€β™€οΈ But then again it’s a shared pool. 

Everyone who gives out an upvote is a curator.. so yes while authors may see a decrease on one side, they will actually gain when they curate as well. Most authors do both, don’t they? 

I would say we have quite a few using Steem as passive income, some have actually invested their own money, and others have not. I think both can be bad if value is not returned in some way.

I do understand your concerns and the goal here was to open a dialogue so everyone could voice them.
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@terabytes ·
There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming HF21, but I feel there has not been a explanation of what any of it means directed to the community itself. I don't feel it has been explained in a way that everyone can grasp and understand while seeing the goal of the proposed changes.

This may be due to different styles of communication or just a disconnect from the user base. Either way I believe it is an unfortunate oversight, and this post is my attempt to remedy that. As I feel communication is extremely important for any community, organization or business.


Full Disclosure- I am not a top witness and therefore am not considered in the "consensus" aspects of this hardfork. I am am active community member and a part of a backup witness team (c-squared) though, and due to my involvement of many projects on this chain I have been included in some "conversations" pertaining to this HF discussion. During these discussions I like to think of myself as a community advocate or representative. I try to ensure community concerns are heard and do my best to keep the community in mind through every discussion. Whether I am the best choice for that is up for debate.. but I figure if I am in such a position I should take it seriously and do my best to represent the community.


So with all of that being said, this is my attempt to explain the proposed HF changes to the community, the best way I can. My goal is to help get the correct information out and give the community a good understanding of what the HF consists of, why those supporting it think it's needed, and what happens next.


I will do my best to keep my opinions out of most of this post (I'll save them for a future one perhaps), but rather try to explain the idea behind these proposed changes... from one normie to another. Therefore I will not be focusing on algorithms or charts (I'll link to those for anyone who wants them though), but rather just try to paint a picture of what the ideas of the changes are as well as the desired effect. 




First Things First


What is a hard fork?
A hard fork is a when a change in the main protocol (or code) happens on a blockchain. This normally occurs when changes or improvements to the core code of the chain takes place. In order for these changes to take place, a protocol is released (traditionally by steemit inc here on steem) and then "consensus" must occur for the chain to migrate to this new protocol. Consensus is when 17 of the top 20 witnesses "accept" this change in protocol by beginning to run this new code and stop running the old one. Only then will these changes in protocol take effect. This will be the 21st Hard Fork to occur on The Steem Blockchain.

Here is a good description/analogy of blockchain protocol changes for anyone wanting more information.

Please note-
We are not to this point on HF21. The protocol has not been released yet and there is no scheduled date for when that will occur.

Steemit inc did release a Test Net though where witnesses will begin testing the possible code to find any issues or errors so they can be fixed. The goal of this is to prevent possible issues from occurring (as we saw with HF20), but of course not everything can always be prevented. The test net is designed to help though and many witnesses are actively testing the code currently.

Once testing has been done and they feel it's sufficient, a date will be announced.



fork.jpg




HF21 - The Details
This hard fork is made up of two very different and separate aspects - The SPS (Steem Proposal System) and The EIP (Economic Improvements Proposal). I will try to go through each one in a easy to understand way, while linking to more complex information for those that want it.




Part One - The SPS
The SPS, Steem Proposal System or Steem.DAO, is a worker proposal system that is coded into the chain itself. This will be an automated system (no "group" controlling it) that any member of the community can submit a "proposal" to through a front end interface. Stake weighted voting decides what proposals receive funding, and payments are sent out in installments over a time period, after a proposal has been "approved".

The SPS was proposed by blocktrades nearly 5 months ago, and after an agreement from Steemit Inc to fund the development, Blocktrades began building the code.

What is the point?
There are many blockchains in existence that have Worker Proposal Systems (or sometimes referred to as "DAO's) in effect. The idea is a decentralized and automated way to fund things that could improve or add to the ecosystem. This allows anyone from the community to propose something, and if it has enough support from stake holders then it can receive funding.

What can be funded?
Anything. Community members can submit a proposal for absolutely anything. There is a fee of 10sbd's to submit a proposal in place to try to prevent spam submissions, but anything can be submitted.

This could be used for a marketing project, outreach, onboarding, developments to the UI/UX or any other site features. It could be used to hire a management team for the community, PR reps, or some other "role" the community sees as beneficial. It could be used to fund a project idea, a game, etc etc etc.

Think of this as a way for the community to vote and fund projects they see as beneficial to the chain itself as well as the Steem Ecosystem. Therefore depending on Steemit inc. for these items less and less.

It allows the community to redirect some of the shared inflation pool to things that could have a positive impact on the ecosystem and hopefully improve the overall value of STEEM.

Where does the funding come from?
When the SPS was originally announced there had been a discussion of Steemit Inc. contributing a substantial "seed funding" (as detailed in the link above), that amount is now discussed to be 200K STEEM.

It is very important though for the worker proposal system to have sustainable funding to be successful, as well as the importance of it not solely relying on Steemit Inc itself. That means it is even more important that the community redirect sustainable funding from some other place to ensure this worker proposal system can actually provide a service to the community.

Proposed Sustainable Funding Source
On steem we have a shared rewards pool that is sourced from inflation. This pool is allocated to different types of "rewards" as seen below;

rewards graph.png

The idea of this inflation pool is to use these funds to pay for things that add value to STEEM. Currently it's being used to pay rewards to authors/curators through post and comment payouts, a vesting interest reward and witness rewards (paid in SP).

The figures (when combined) look like this currently -


Authors/Curators - 75% | Interest - 15% | Witnesses 10%


As you can see the largest part of the inflation pool is being used to reward content contributions.


The Proposed Change-

Authors/Curators - 65% | Interest - 15% | Witnesses 10% | SPS - 10%


The idea is that since that is the group receiving the largest cut, that redirecting 10% of that inflation to the SPS would be a good place to start. Remember, the inflation pool should be used for what adds the most value to Steem and has the most long term benefit.. therefore improving the price of STEEM for everyone. Many feel the SPS could be exactly what we need to push Steem to where it needs to be, while giving the community control over what is funded itself.


TDLR Part One
The SPS is an automated worker proposal system that was coded by Blocktrades. Proposed funding would be a combination of donations as well as redirecting 10% of the current inflation pool to the SPS itself.


My Thoughts on SPS?
I think the SPS is desperately needed and could be very beneficial for the Steem ecosystem. I think that the inflation pool should be used to fund what adds value, or ultimately that inflation is actually contributing to a decrease in the price of STEEM.

I left a comment on this post of my thoughts overall for anyone interested, but I won't include them here for sake of time and not wanting to include too much of my own opinions
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (1)
@kachinhenry ·
@justineh, Well explanation about HF21. Please allow me to translate into Myanmar language.
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@justineh ·
Thank you, and sure go ahead!
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@steemitboard ·
Congratulations @justineh! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

<table><tr><td><img src="https://steemitimages.com/60x70/http://steemitboard.com/@justineh/voted.png?201906200209"></td><td>You received more than 6000 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 7000 upvotes.</td></tr>
</table>

<sub>_You can view [your badges on your Steem Board](https://steemitboard.com/@justineh) and compare to others on the [Steem Ranking](https://steemitboard.com/ranking/index.php?name=justineh)_</sub>
<sub>_If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word_ `STOP`</sub>



**Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:**
<table><tr><td><a href="https://steemit.com/steemtoolbar/@steemitboard/steemtoolbar-update-display-bug-fixed"><img src="https://steemitimages.com/64x128/http://i.cubeupload.com/7CiQEO.png"></a></td><td><a href="https://steemit.com/steemtoolbar/@steemitboard/steemtoolbar-update-display-bug-fixed">SteemitBoard - Witness Update</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitboard/do-not-miss-the-coming-rocky-mountain-steem-meetup-and-get-a-new-community-badge"><img src="https://steemitimages.com/64x128/https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmUphCGZFWgt6bJ1XTtunV7esnwy6bxnGqcLcHAV3NEqnQ/meetup-rocky-mountain.png"></a></td><td><a href="https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitboard/do-not-miss-the-coming-rocky-mountain-steem-meetup-and-get-a-new-community-badge">Do not miss the coming Rocky Mountain Steem Meetup and get a new community badge!</a></td></tr></table>

###### [Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness](https://v2.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=steemitboard&approve=1) to get one more award and increased upvotes!
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@nonameslefttouse · (edited)
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.
I will not turn this comment section into a shitstorm.

Wonderful job.  And once the dust settles people will then again begin to wonder how to sell this place to the masses.

I'm already a few steps ahead of the game with the thought process included within this post:
https://steemit.com/steem/@nonameslefttouse/how-much-have-you-spent-on-entertainment-in-your-lifetime

That's not spam, it's too old to be voted on.  Just some good food for thought.
πŸ‘  , , , ,
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (6)
@transisto ·
You should at least upvote your own shit if you think it's relevant.
I just see a wall of non-sense.
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@nonameslefttouse · (edited)
Yes, I wouldn't expect you, @transisto, to be able to see the humor in that.
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@justineh ·
Oh be nice, I get his humor πŸ™‚ and his post is actually a great read.. good idea for marketing at some point. He’s a good one πŸ˜‰
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@baah ·
I just see some who is allergic to fun.
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@baah ·
Are you making funny of me?
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@in2itiveart ·
$0.06
blah blah blah - as usual the hf will make the rich richer and the poor poorer - as it has done since it's inception - fortunately I already powered down my account - btc lept 20% and I made a little bit back that I had lost with all the previous hard forks. Good luck.
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vote details (5)
@tonygreene113 ·
More "hope" for altruistic behavior. I'm too much of a realist to believe assuming people will do the right thing without incentives...

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/tonygreene113)
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@jaraumoses ·
This is the first time I have understood this SPS and EIP thing fully!!! 

I saw it being introduced by @blocktrades by I just failed to pick out the key points because of the technicalities!! 

I am a tech person btw and obviously I cannot understand all techy stuff!!

I like the way you have explained this in a way any normal or average Steem user can understand ( only if they love reading!!).

The SPS is a great idea and should have been implemented like 2 years ago hehehe, nevertheless it's here now.

When you were explaining the hardfork, my mine rushed(for no reason) to BCH!!!

The EIP might be the reason it might take long for the 21 witnesses to agree on the HF!!!

Let us us just wait and see what happens next.

I have to admit that I didn't click on any of those technical links you included here for further reading as this post was enough for me to grasp all that has been happening for the last 5 months ever since the proposals began.

This words below really blew me up 
>I think it's important to note that Steem in itself is an experiment, and that is not a negative thing. **We are creating an economic society that has never been done before. We are doing revolutionary things... and with anything that has never been done before, there will be trial and error along the way**. But without the courage to try new things, explore and experiment, we will become stagnant and not be a part of the revolution.

In one of the mostly used local languages here in Uganda πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¬ here we say 
"Bakuwe kyonywa" directly translated to "let them give you what you drink" or literally have a drink on my bill!!
![images (38).jpeg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmRjfncABBVzrW3zj95w4DwCnGUKrVduzFSDfrjrFkdopy/images%20(38).jpeg)
 So Bakuwe kyonywa for the this great post.

I have to share this on Twitter so that other Steemit folks can see and read it.

Jarau from Uganda πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¬
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@sohanisti ·
Interesting & Amazing Explanations...Congratulations ... you are amazing
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@nonameslefttouse ·
$0.02
Interesting & Amazing comment...Congratulations... you are wonderful!
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@ats-david ·
$0.29
>The Proposed Change-

>Authors/Curators - 65% | Interest - 15% | Witnesses 10% | SPS - 10%

If this is going to be the final proposal for the hard fork, I do not support it. Initially, I thought that using 10% from *author* rewards would be a good idea. I don't believe the current proposal is a good idea, and here's why:

*Reducing content rewards as a whole will reduce rewards for curation. Since curation rewards are pretty much the only way to earn anything other than a negligible amount of tokens, reducing the total content rewards pie is another hit to stakeholders.*

Yes, I know curation rewards are also proposed to increase to 50% from 25% of that pie, but the entire point of that was to better incentivize staking and curating. What this does is trade off some of that incentive in order to fund more "development" projects that have largely produced not much useful *stuff* to date. 

So, we trade staked incentives for worker funding in STEEM that will likely be sold in order to pay for these (likely) mostly useless projects. 

And yes, I have advocated reducing overall inflation by mostly or entirely eliminating SP "interest" - which obviously goes to stakeholders. But by eliminating that "interest," we're *reducing* the amount of STEEM from future circulation, thereby reducing current and future downward price pressure. This current proposal does the opposite. It will *add* to downward price pressure.

>The goal or idea is though that with the combined components of the EIP taking effect, there will be less spam taking rewards and more individuals curating (as it's now profitable to do so). Which could mean even though the author rewards percentage is lower, the reward pool will be bigger (less abuse taking it) and therefore the actual rewards an author receives will actually increase.

This remains to be seen and is only the "hope." I would prefer to postpone the SPS protocols for this hard fork and see how the economic changes will alter behavior. The SPS was not something the community was clamoring for and it will likely have little effect on any user or investment behavior - changes in behavior that are actually desperately needed around here.

Who knows...it may turn out that the SPS isn't needed after all. Maybe if we actually fix some of the economic incentive mess, things will shape up here on Steem and it may actually become a bit more attractive for use and investment. 

>Many feel the SPS could be exactly what we need to push Steem to where it needs to be, while giving the community control over what is funded itself.

This is a nice thought, but "the community" has rarely ever decided where rewards go and what projects get funded. That has mostly been decided by a very small percentage of users.
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vote details (7)
@novacadian ·
Your *too much for one HF* suggestion is not unique. The best support for *everything in one release*, in my opinion, is that due to the infrequency of HFs that it is best to get all desired changes out in the latest release. Having seen self voting come and go a number of times through multiple HFs, for example, has shown me that any HF is never etched in stone. 😎
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@geekgirl ·
$0.02
I think SPS taking away 10% from authors/curators defeats the purpose of EIP.
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vote details (3)
@ats-david ·
$0.05
Yeah, I think so too. Seems like a counter-intuitive package. 

>*We're going to increase incentives/rewards for curation. But we're also going to reduce the entire pool of content rewards.*

If that's the case, then curation ought to be moved to a larger percentage of the content distribution, like 60/40 or more. That's something that I would approve.
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@valued-customer · (edited)
I pretty strongly agree with you here, although we have different reasons for expecting negative outcomes.

>"...these (likely) mostly useless projects."

I expect that since it is demonstrable that substantial stakeholders on Steem are exclusively profiteers, and voting on SPS proposals would be stake weighted, there'd be a high probability of proposals voted funding that would feature kickbacks to the upvoters, much in the way bidbots are funded now.  Further, proposals that aren't able to solicit funding are likely to be not worth funding.  Devising a complex and regressive tax scheme to fund them will not help to weed out bad proposals.

You state opposition to stakeholders 'taking another hit' by being limited in curation rewards.  I note Steem is the only durable mechanism that incites stakeholders to extract value from the investment vehicle, rather than seek to increase it to gain capital thereby.  Capital gains is a proven and functional incentive to invest in almost every other investment vehicle now, and throughout history.  

Why in the world are you opposed to capital gains as the inciting mechanism for investors on Steem?
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@iflagtrash ·
It has been determined that you are trash, therefore, you have received a negative vote.<br><br>PLEASE NOTE: If you engage with the trash above you also risk receiving a negative vote on your comment.
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@ats-david ·
>Why in the world are you opposed to capital gains as the inciting mechanism for investors on Steem?

I’m not. In fact, I stated that eliminating inflation for SP β€œinterest” would remove some negative price pressure. So, in other words, it could positively affect appreciation of STEEM. 

Capital appreciation - or what is generally *speculation* - would be a reason to purchase and hold STEEM or any other token or asset in any given market. I think you and many others who bring up the capital appreciation argument are missing this point: 

**_You don’t need to stake your STEEM to benefit from that appreciation._**

Staking comes with additional incentives/rewards to encourage participation or β€œcontributions” to the social media system. It offers benefits and potential ROI *beyond* speculation for assuming additional risk. 

This is one of the unique properties and selling points of the Steem blockchain. We should be improving on this and promoting it - not only for investors looking for better returns, but for the content creators looking to be rewarded for their efforts and for content consumers looking for well-curated (popular/quality) content.
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@hobo.media ·
$0.11
I could live with the 50/50 change, I could live with 75% author/curator going to 65% for the Steem.DAO, but what is unacceptable to me is the 25% free downvotes. Downvotes are already being used for evil, and those doing it have to take a loss in order to do it. 

That's a big no for me... That's asking for all the anti-downvoting people to fork Steem and remove downvoting. It is an illogical thing to assume that people will be ethical with downvoting. 

Steem is not one community, it is designed to be the backbone of thousands of communities across the web. Political parties, main stream medias, religious groups and other special interest groups will use downvotes as a means of raiding other communities to terrorize and demonetize them. 

Downvoting changes the atmosphere online. If Steem becomes hugely popular, downvotes will have the effective of creating a very negative energy throughout the entire internet. Upvotes for something is a vote against everything else, so downvotes are completely unnecessary. They are used as an aggressive tool to hurt an individual or a small group. Its bully tactics, might-makes-right, not anything good and wholesome. 

If Steem keeps going down this path with downvotes the internet is better off with Steem going to $0. I want to see Steem prosper, but not if its going to embrace this downvoting nonsense. Its absolutely terrible for society. Currently, the wealthy, middle class and the poor can all speak with an equal voice, downvoting destroys that equality. If Steem were to grow popular and have downvotes it would devastate the balance online of free speech for people of all incomes. I can't support that world and any technology that would bring that about. 

I urge the witnesses to think harder on this subject. This is a serious misstep.
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vote details (3)
@valued-customer ·
>"Its absolutely terrible for society."

Youre not wrong.  Believe me, I know.
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@iflagtrash ·
It has been determined that you are trash, therefore, you have received a negative vote.<br><br>PLEASE NOTE: If you engage with the trash above you also risk receiving a negative vote on your comment.
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@d0zer ·