RE: Do you think Palnet "holds no value" and disagree with minnowsupport bot? by lordbutterfly

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Viewing a response to: @glory7/py0wb4

· @lordbutterfly ·
Doesnt matter really. I remember minnowsupport being free to use. 
If they take pal tokens that are purchasable on the market then ill flag them as well.

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@kharma.scribbles ·
$0.02
They discontinued the free Discord pal voting bot..  More likely to be abused they said ( as I don't see the difference why you would only downvote pal bot if it was a paid-for bot.. I thought the point about hating on vote bots was because they can vote on crap and give it unfair promotion and rewards?  Free bots can do that too..)

Not that I agree at all with this 'movement' though - posts should be (down)voted based on their content and a disagreement with the rewards that content is earning, not just because it got a bot vote.

Your blindly downvoting on content, a bot blindly votes on content .. how are these different?  Rescuing some rewards and putting them back in the reward pool? By doing the same thing (blind voting) that you detest?

I'd just feel so much better if you actually read the content before judging, and then ask yourself "would I vote on this?" and if so then I don't think buying a vote from a bot should be so wrong.

If however you wouldn't vote on the content and it was bid on by a bot, that deserves a downvote no doubt as there's nothing to justify the bot's vote.

👍  
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vote details (1)
@lordbutterfly · (edited)
>They discontinued the free Discord pal voting bot.. More likely to be abused they said

No. The discord bot was a community supporting bot. It voted 1 time per day in small percentages. The level of abuse is beyond miniscule. 
Them moving it into a pay for vote bot serves only to enrich the bot owner, it was one of the shittier things to do. I dont know exactly how it works, i want to emphasize that, but if you simply pay for the vote then its easy to say that Aggroed has turned into a simple money grabbing bot owner and i hope the whales stomp his ass sooner rather then later.

>I thought the point about hating on vote bots was because they can vote on crap and give it unfair promotion and rewards?

Its more complex then that. Theres stake concentration thats an issue, theres the gravity of votes to consider, theres proof of brain.
Minnowsupport was a community support, basic income type of bot with low coffer filling potential for the owner and its use effect on the payout was extremely low. You basically used it if you just started up so your payout isnt 0. 

>not just because it got a bot vote.

There are numerous things tied into what a bot vote does and what it means for the platform. I cant explain it all to right now. It creates dumb inflation. It creates a negative picture of steem. It demotivates creators from creating. Theres so many negative things tied into bots that i would have to write an essay to explain it all. 
Read my posts on bots if you want to know more. 

>Your blindly downvoting on content, a bot blindly votes on content .. how are these different?

I havent downvoted a single time blindly. More times then not i give an explanation.
It is "Just because its botvoted" because bot use does all those things i mentioned above and many more. 

>and if so then I don't think buying a vote from a bot should be so wrong.

It still remains absolutely wrong. Did the community make the call that they want to see your post trend?
It breaks even the basic definition of what "trending" means. 
No, you decided that this should be seen, you promoted the post almost for free and you took spots from someone else that would be just a bit higher up the trending page or tag page organically if you didnt take his spot, just because you could pay more. You destroyed proof of brain and you completely wrecked the adspace value of the trending page. . 
Its egotistical, narcissistic, selfish, hurts the image of the platform and drains the reward pool. 

Hope its a bit clearer now. 
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@kharma.scribbles ·
$0.02
I know my words may have seem directed to you, and I was replying to you, but I was speaking in assumptions more than "you did this!" just to be clear.



Sorry, I am bad for that, speaking in the general context but making it sound like I'm getting personal.


> Did the community make the call that they want to see your post trend?

Isn't it like seeing an advertisement, and how is promoted any different though?  Sure, burning is beneficial to the community but just because you've burned SBD/whatever means I need to like your shitpost and put up with it being injected into my feed as 'promoted'??

I'm not really sure when something would qualify for trending because I use SteemPeak so do not even see the normal trending section.. but I could imagine that things make it to trending organically that majority of the community wouldn't agree with either. 
I used to use bots without a thought, on all my posts, prior to HF - because they were profitable.. but I'm not posting shit meme posts either, and then I was sending the bare minimum bid accepted.

 I don't think my 1 STEEM bid is going to shake things up too much, and if my post already had 200+ upvotes and making over 10 STU, I might decide to use a bot to help push it father up the reward curve, like I did recently with a post that received some attention by the right people and one vote sent it over 35 STU.. so at that point I paid booster 1 STEEM to help push it just a little more up the reward curve. Booster's vote was like 10th down my list of voters.. generally I don't use bots on brand new posts either because I want to get a sense of the impression first.  
Rarely is the bot's vote ever the largest vote, and that's not my point in using it anyways.  


---

Anything on steem-engine is marketable but for example, HLPE tokens are generally won from contests that @helpie hosts, and @helpiecake curators earn them as well each month for being active.. Their only use case is to buy upvotes from @helpie bot, at a max of 30 for a 30% vote..  Since their only use is upvotes, none have really gone up on the sell market yet..
 How do you feel about that use case?

Matter of fact, how do you feel about SBI?

Thanks for taking the time to reply.  

I have more to say and ask but it was hard enough crafting the words for this reply, don't want to come across argumentative - I'm honestly curious and trying to debate here.. Learn, I'm still new.

👍  
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vote details (1)
@kharma.scribbles ·
$0.02
You saying it demotivates creators from creating.. but see before this downvote movement thing, I already had a fear of abusing bots and getting downvotes. I was under the impression that as long as you weren't obviously upbidding ALL your posts, posting 5 times a day bidbotting them all - and worst of all posting just memes or posts with a few sentences in them..

I don't even self-vote, but I want to use as much potential for earning as I can - and since shittier posts are being bid-botted up to whale votes from the bot, I feel like I at least need the bots minimum vote to compete and again, use up my earning potential.

Maybe my posts aren't interesting to some but I spend time writing, editing, and then networking within my communities and followers for my posts to get support. I work hard trying to grow here, I feel a bot vote here and there is justified on my work.

It's like, if they aren't entirely outlawed, then anyone who doesn't use a bot is giving themselves a disadvantage against those who are using them.. know what I mean. 

My content would be my content here or any other platform. Only twice have I posted twice in a day and I think the most active posts I had at once was 10 for a day, I struggle to even keep 5 active posts up  When I post it's to produce my best work, not just to use on a bid-bot.. But I dunno this is just my story but that's what I mean by the poison that blindly downvoting can do.. everyone has their reasons and not ALL users of bots are using them in a way that should be seen as abusive in my opinion...
👍  
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