Viewing a response to: @softfork222/soft-fork-222
At first look, my reaction is that witnesses have gone mad. While I understand the reasoning behind this, I think it is an extreme measure that undermines the blockchain integrity. Once acquisition happened those stakes were no longer ninja-minded. If this is a negotiation tactic to bring the other side to table to work out a mutually beneficial and long term solution, I think it is smart. I donβt think this is a good permanent solution. Sounds like βwe were scared of a hostile take over, so letβs attack firstβ. Let the power battles begin!
post_id | 84,661,827 |
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author | geekgirl |
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liondani | 0 | 1,276,554,913,441 | 22% | ||
bennierex | 0 | 18,954,666,865 | 10% | ||
novacadian | 0 | 132,854,035,525 | 75% | ||
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>"...those stakes were no longer ninja-minded." This is true. The Steem community has been, as @starkerz noted recently, quite naive, lulled into trust by @ned's lack of pecuniary intent and avarice. This is a trustless platform, or should be. The founder's stake has continuously been claimed as solely intended for use by development initiatives, and this verbal (written) allegation has sufficed to preclude concerns of it being deployed to centralize governance of Steem. However, that threat has always existed, mostly due to the 30x multiplication of the influence of substantial hodlings of stake over the witnesses. It is this mechanism that made of the founder's stake a centralizing threat. As long as the substantial stakeholders could trust @ned not to use that stake, their influence on governance was dramatically increased, and they clearly benefited from this. This temporary solution but points to the need a decentralized trustless platform has to prevent concentration of influence on governance through code that enables some stake to wield more influence than other stake. Eliminating the 30x multiplication of the influence of substantial stake on governance eliminates any threat of @justinsunsteemit, or heirs, beneficiaries, or assigns to exercise instant governance of Steem. It also makes all Steem equally influential, from large or small stakeholders, in witness elections. 1 Steem = 1 witness vote is the fair and equitable way to solve the problem temporarily mitigated by this soft fork, as well as the undue influence that has heretofore inured to large stakeholders over the majority of the community.
post_id | 84,662,967 |
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author | valued-customer |
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geekgirl | 0 | 482,661,624,280 | 50% |
I think other measures like significantly decreasing amount of witness votes an account can cast would produce better results and further decentralize the chain.
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author | geekgirl |
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valued-customer | 0 | 11,640,467,449 | 25% | ||
shammi | 0 | 0 | 2% |
Some users have tens of thousands of accounts. How much does limiting the number of witness votes they can cast per account affect them? Sock puppets will get around any limitation on witness votes per account, to greater or lesser degree depending on how limited witness votes are. If you reduce the number of witness votes an account can cast to one, @justinsunsteemit can spread his stake to 20 accounts and replace the consensus witnesses at will. Frankly, equity really demands 1 steem = 1 witness vote, and you can see how the present system is inequitable and centralizes governance now if you read <a href="https://steempeak.com/steem/@valued-customer/decentralization-and-equity-the-emergency-soft-fork">this</a>.
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author | valued-customer |
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category | steem |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steem"],"app":"steempeak\/2020.02.2"} |
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geekgirl | 0 | 482,679,020,709 | 50% | ||
jaguar.force | 0 | 11,549,752,051 | 100% |
> Once acquisition happened those stakes were no longer ninja-minded. Seems like essentially if you do something bad, its ok as long as you sell it off. If I steal a car and sell it to someone, they get to keep that car regardless of what the true owner says?
post_id | 84,663,158 |
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author | netuoso |
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root_title | "Steem Consensus Witness Statement: Code Updated" |
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geekgirl | 0 | 487,418,767,453 | 50% |
Your argument makes no sense because no one said the ninja mine is okay. When it is sold, then the bad action has been done. Ninja mine for profit = bad. But the person who bought the stake is not responsible for the actions of the previous holder of that stake. If I sold you 1000 Steem and was abusing my stake, upvoting myself 10 times a day, does that mean that you should now be downvoted by spam preventers? And to answer your car example, if the car was sold illegally, then yes, it still belongs to the original owner. However, if the transaction was completely legal, then it belongs to the buyer. Other problems are not his to deal with. Tron acquired their stake fairly.
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author | marki99 |
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category | steem |
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What Netouso said is 100% correct. You even have laws in place for this exact thing. The person who bought the stake doesnt get to keep the stake no string attached. If he has a problem, Ned is the person he should get reparations from..
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author | lordbutterfly |
permlink | re-marki99-q66m7c |
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jaguar.force | 0 | 12,668,712,797 | 100% |
You're mistaken about how stolen property works, though that analogy is so strained as to be entirely irrelevant here. But as a matter of trivia (and so you are better informed), in fact if property is stolen then even a 'legitimate' buyer has to give it back to the rightful owner and then get a refund from the seller.
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author | smooth |
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marki99 | 0 | 49,627,201,889 | 4% | ||
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You have a very strange definition of fairness, and that stake came with strings attached, it swapping hands makes no difference, the strings are still attached.
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root_title | "Steem Consensus Witness Statement: Code Updated" |
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If this was really something bad, witnesses should have taken these measures long time ago. Inaction has legitimized the stakes long tine ago. Ned himself said they Steemit Inc do not owe anybody anything. Witnesses didnβt do anything then either. So justifying these measures with claims of βninja-mineβ are not reasonable. These stakes are fully paid for. I expect a fight back to protect their investment. Hopefully mutually beneficial resolution will be reached. I share the concerns of potential hostile take over, but I donβt think keeping funds hostage is a good way to achieve any fruitful results.
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---|---|---|---|---|---|
novacadian | 0 | 130,903,970,987 | 75% | ||
shammi | 0 | 0 | 2% | ||
jayplayco | 0 | 500,790,313,242 | 100% | ||
millstone | 0 | 144,172,729 | 100% |
"Ned himself said they Steemit Inc do not owe anybody anything." I don't give a damn what the guilty party has to say. It makes 0 sense that you would. Stinc stake was never legitimized, simply tolerated to a point. If it was legitimized Ned wouldn't have hidden millions of steem in exchanges. He knew he had to run. Witness inaction at that time doesn't mean anything except that they were lazy and inert when they shouldn't have been so.
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author | lordbutterfly |
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category | steem |
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coininstant | 0 | -274,314,431,285 | -100% | ||
novacadian | 0 | -182,912,105,326 | -100% | ||
geekgirl | 0 | 477,960,878,968 | 50% |
> Ned himself said they Steemit Inc do not owe anybody anything So now we are going to pick and choose which things Ned said we decide to decide are important and which are not? And we're going to do so by selectively quoting the ones that are most self-serving to Ned? I don't think so. I agree action should have been taken long ago. I also see incremental reasons to take action now. The straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.
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novacadian | 0 | -198,788,833,881 | -100% | ||
geekgirl | 0 | 471,453,529,640 | 50% |
> Once acquisition happened those stakes were no longer ninja-minded Sorry I can't agree on this point, particularly in so far as the transaction was described as acquisition of the company. I fail to see how the identity of the sharesholders of a company, or a change in the list of shareholders, changes anything about a particular block of stake that was ninja mined to support development of the ecosystem. If the stake alone was sold (not that there is any evidence of this), then I would think either there would or should have been disclosure of any baggage associated with the asset (whether legal, reputational, unrealized risks, or pertaining to strategic business considerations surrounding the use of the asset). If not then it seems like something for the parties to the sale to work out.
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author | smooth |
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category | steem |
json_metadata | {"app":"steemit\/0.2"} |
created | 2020-02-24 02:33:33 |
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ats-david | 0 | 79,341,588,348 | 100% | ||
geekgirl | 0 | 476,190,749,022 | 50% | ||
jaguar.force | 0 | 12,248,952,509 | 100% |