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Join Me In Discussion To Build a Better Platform. @pawsdog by pawsdog

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· @pawsdog · (edited)
$12.47
Join Me In Discussion To Build a Better Platform. @pawsdog
<center>![9eed471ac8aead690609afd1fb40fa56--presidential-history-presidential-quotes.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmeHm3j51B4JbpwTaZqRvJycSapf83XZefmuiAmvxKcVLa/9eed471ac8aead690609afd1fb40fa56--presidential-history-presidential-quotes.jpg)</center>


I have often been accused of thinking beyond my reach, or to put it in simpler terms trying to emulate Icarus minus the hubris, as I do not consider myself to be prideful; adamant and aggressive as required by the situation, but not prideful.

To that end I am stepping way outside of my Steemit socioeconomic class (Minnow here) to look at the platform as if I were its curator. In so doing I want to draw from my recent observations, experiences and interactions with other users.  

So what are the problems with Steemit and what will prevent it from reaching the next level?

I have pondered this for a couple days and more so since my recent, both positive and negative interactions with a few power users (whales). This is such a difficult question to answer, as in many ways Steemits weaknesses are also its greatest strengths.

Steemit, from my understanding as a lowly minnow, is a platform as much about financial incentive as it is about the free exchange of ideas in an entirely self policed community free of content Nazis such as those found on Facebook and the like. It is, in theory, a place to express your ideas and opinions (so long as they do not constitute hate speech or violate any laws) free of recourse in an effort to attract others that share the same interests and ideals. 

That said, the financial benefit of the platform brings with it the inclusion of greed, jealousy and the need to begrudge or bring criticism to the success of others. In many ways the financial benefit has created an environment that encourages us to cherry pick the platform features we like and use those as justification to villainize the features we don’t. 

We like the idea we can be paid for creating meaningful content; we don’t like the idea that others may be paid more for content we view as not up to par. We like the idea that our posts are gaining an audience and that our efforts are proving profitable; we don’t like the idea that others may earn more, and potentially deprive us of our share. That said, we hold this ideal of social righteousness, up to the point that we are viewed as the one earning too much. At which point our views shift and the payouts are just compensation for our hard work and dedication; anyone who says otherwise is just bitter, hateful or needs to put in more work.  

We hate the idea of moderation or content control as this is a decentralized platform built on free thought devoid of censorship, yet we scream for governance when we feel as though others are earning too much or their content is offensive, not valuable enough or we have been slighted. The inclusion of money does tend to add an entirely new dimension to things and lends credence to the age old adage that “money is the root of all evil”.

<b>To that end what are the problems? What needs fixed? </b>

Looking at it objectively as is my nature I can certainly see a post reward cap being a good thing, both on a per post basis as well as a per time frame basis (no more than $X in 30, 15, 7 days etc.). What that limit should be I have no idea. Perhaps we could even add performance incentives for authors to decrease the cap over time based upon average user up votes of reputation 50 or higher. To state it clearer, everyone starts with a cap of say $50.00 per post, each month a calculation is applied to determine the number of high ranking users that upvoted the post and a percentage (say 10%) is added to that users earnings ceiling, the percentage decreases accordingly as the amount increases with a max of say $200 per post. This would eliminate the benefit of shill accounts as their 25 reputation would provide nothing towards increasing the author’s earnings ceiling and at most would be of minimal benefit to the authors reputation in accordance with the current system.    

Another idea would be a multiplier that weights a user’s potential impact not solely on their SP (the amount of money they have), but on their reputation as well, tying the two together in a fashion so as one depends on the other with reputation being the more heavily weighted of the two. This I think would avoid situations wherein a user with questionable or negative reputation is allowed to, negatively or positively impact posts based solely upon their wealth. 
As it stands now, and correct me if I am wrong, I could have a reputation of 0, invest $1,000,000 towards my SP and go on a terror spree if I so desired. I feel this is a flaw in the current system and both your impact and potential earnings should be limited based upon your reputation regardless of how wealthy you may or may not be.

Another idea would be limitations on down voting, in that you are only allowed to down vote a specific user a maximum of X times per week, month etc. This would likely put an end to flag wars and provide a period in which cooler heads could prevail and let time heal the wounds. At current it seems as if it is common practice to go on crusades that last an inordinate amount of time as users are allowed to continually damage the accounts of others and receive instant gratification time and time again for doing so with no cooling off period.   

Conversely this could be applied to upvoting as well to further limit the benefit of shill accounts and users with a network of bots at their disposal. This would prevent them from abusing the system by consistently upvoting themselves or only one person. It would also eliminate the pay for vote industry that has found roots in our community and only serves to dilute the true curation of good content by readers that actually value that content. This industry has perverted the ideals of the platform by allowing content of questionable worthiness to make its way up the ranks based solely on how much the creator is willing to pay for it to be noticed. It is not true curation, does not gain status based on its merit or value and most likely pushes down potentially more valuable content from authors with less financial means.       

Lastly and perhaps the most controversial point we vote a delegation of 5 that have authority to rule impartially in much the same way as an appeals court. We set standards for the panel, a peer review process and ensure that the members represent an equal cross section of the community. Say one of Rep 30-40, two of Rep 50-60 and two of reputation 60 or higher, all with equal say and power by consensus on issues brought to their attention. We also apply  a wealth restriction of no more than $100,000 per account to avoid implications of self enrichment.  I have often looked at politicians whom make $500,000 for giving a speech as hypocrites when they claim to be my peer or understand my needs. A government of the people, for the people and by the people means you need some “average people” in charge as only they can bring true understanding and empathy for their socioeconomic peers. 

I will end this here as I have covered a lot, some of my ideas may be dumb, some may not but I certainly appreciate input and community involvement when it comes to making this a better platform for us all to inhabit. 

<center><b>The issue today is the same as it has been throughout history. Whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite -Thomas Jefferson</b></center>


 

<p><center><a href="http://steemit.com/@pawsdog"><img src="https://steemitimages.com/DQmSgvWb7SsQm8TMfvUiyEsbfd7sH3M5YZZa7QRsqV2Q5vk/DQmSgvWb7SsQm8TMfvUiyEsbfd7sH3M5YZZa7QRsqV2Q5vk.gif"/></a></center></p>
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vote details (25)
@ododah ·
I like your sense of reasoning @pawsdog.
Your caption reminds me of similar quote... 
"A man is said to have changed his character when you give him the same opportunity he had much earlier but does otherwise".
Let's together make steemit a home for quality..
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@pawsdog ·
I agree and I'm all in.. Where do we start..
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@pawsdog ·
Yes, I think making the decision to act differently than one has acted previously is a reflection of time and wisdom gained through experience. Some will never change and will fit the saying that "the definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over while expecting a different result"
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@cryptographic · (edited)
$11.65
All good and positive suggestions marking a starting point in the search for essential changes needed to make Steemit even better than it is now. 

A widely distributed, decentralized community needs some sort of logarithmic/multiplier capping of both upvotes and downvotes, as well as some sort of internal arbitration for extreme cases that require real human interaction. 

And the best part of these proposed reforms would be the obvious increase in the rest of rewards received by lesser well known contributors getting fewer upvotes since the percentage lowered on the bigger rewards would automatically be distributed equally to the rest of upvotes not having reached capping thresholds (or proportionately up to said thresholds, etc.).

Good job. I'm a big believer in moving forward in the positive, and this certainly looks to be exactly that. Looking forward to seeing everyone else's opinions and suggestions!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@pawsdog ·
$11.40
I figured these points would mark a good place to start a conversation into needed reform as I see multiple areas in need of improvement and have noted abuse from the rich and poor alike. I think that in order for this platform to make it the next level each and ever member should fee as though they are valuable, a part of the community and if they matter. At current I see much disparity and feel as though those in the lower echelon feel a bit left out and or abused. 

I am highly in favor of a capping system of some sorts as like you said it would leave more available to spread around to other users and improve the platform
👍  
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vote details (1)
@therecantonlybe1 · (edited)
$0.05
I feel you on a lot of this. There are times when I see a comment say something like "good job" and that comment has a couple of upvotes that translate to $5 or $6 and I am like that comment is worth more than my earnings for the entire day or even the entire week.
@originalworks
👍  
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@originalworks2 ·
The @OriginalWorks bot has determined this post by @pawsdog to be original material and upvoted it! 
<center>![ezgif.com-resize.gif](https://steemitimages.com/DQmaBi37A5oTnQ9NBLH8YU4jpvhhmFauyvgg3YRrEJwskM9/ezgif.com-resize.gif)</center> 

To call @OriginalWorks, simply reply to any post with @originalworks or !originalworks in your message!
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@pawsdog · (edited)
Yeah that does suck and I feel your pain. I also don't like the concept of self voting or upvoting your own stuff for profit.. There are times I can see it being useful if you are adding a valuable opinion to a post with 100 comments that are garbage and you want to start a discussion, but for the most part I think self voting is somewhat tasteless.. For what its worth.. here are my 3 cents..
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@therecantonlybe1 ·
$0.05
I agree with you on the self-voting. The problem is that it is a community norm here to self-vote your own content. I first noticed people voting up their own content, so then I searched it and I found that it is generally accepted to vote up your own content. 

I don't think it should be allowed at all. To me, that is like going to your own store and buying your own products in order to inflate your sales numbers and trick your shareholders into thinking that you have a ton of sales.

There is also a controversy about voting up your own comments. I have seen mixed answers to that questions, so I have not voted up my own comments. I do vote up my own content only because the general consensus is to do it.  I don't mean to say that it is right just because everybody else is doing it. It is something that I am torn on, but I also see that people are voting themselves up, creating bots to vote themselves up, buying votes from bots, and creating jointly owned bots to vote themselves up.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@joe.public ·
I could not read all of this.
Please stop calling for more governance. 
There is no need to change the rules. We have everything we need to already, we just need to use it
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@pawsdog ·
That I think is the problem, is that due to the financial incentives many items that could be used never will regardless of whether we have the tools or not as any change will negatively affect some while benefiting others and whales live on both sides of the spectrum. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of long term platform health and building a solid brand that helps everyone. In order to do so, changes are going to have to be made to some degree. Changes to design as well as changes to help smaller members and limit the ability of whales to abuse members, or promote their own agenda. Thank you for your comment.
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@valued-customer ·
What whales will agree to limit their power?

Eliminate power.

It cannot be done here, where power already is.
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@indurkin ·
$0.96
I think if a whale was to just decide he/she doesn't like you and downvotes all of your posts you might see it differently.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@pawsdog ·
This is likely true, I certainly did not enjoy it.
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@joe.public · (edited)
$0.10
hey @indurkin I have been attacked unjustly and know exactly how it feels. 

And i do not condone the bullshit witch hunts that go on all the time. 
The thing is, we need people to take the time, use the available tools, find out what the fuck is going on for ourselves, support each other in our efforts to stack some steem, do the math and shut the fuckers down
👍  
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vote details (1)
@valued-customer ·
$0.17
Code is governance.

The extant code is broken.

I agree we don't need more code--we need less.

>"We have everything we need to already, we just need to use it"

Sooner or later you will be forced to acknowledge this is not true.  

![authorrewardchart.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmaB7VhuLwRvAHX9rahRCA18RZx5Q9A9VZTUsDSqgvueXG/authorrewardchart.png)

This is not the result of failure of everyone on the platform to fail to use the extant tools as they're supposed to.  It is the result of that.

![2017-11-24-LevelShares-EN.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdAV147qVLnv6rDqUT98mCTb4Pc67tDZsvM2jPdsvCmNs/2017-11-24-LevelShares-EN.png)

This is where all the power on the platform lies.  Nothing can change that except different code.

You may feel like @haejin needed to be flagged.  What about any completely innocent user that didn't?  @haejin at least has generated an adequate force to cause @berniesanders to have to forego his ROI to counter it, or forego countering it.

He'll forego countering it, because the only reason he flagged @haejin is so that @berniesanders could capture the rewards that were going to @haejin.  He only does it for his personal wealth rewards.

You, or I, and many, many others, practically every other account on Steemit, would simply be crushed into oblivion, and probably ragequit.  Ask @skeptic.  He can explain it to you, and all the things he tried, including pandering, self-censorship, and more, to keep from being crushed by a whale.

In the end, he couldn't.  He didn't ragequit though.  He came back up to positive rep.

Because he self-censors, and has proved to be highly resistant--and expensive--to cause to ragequit, his persecutor has quit flagging him.

Ask him if we have adequate tools.

We don't.

After 1 year, user retention is under 10% on Steemit.  Nothing anyone can say can counter the mathematical certainty that if that isn't changed, Steemit will wither away to nothing in a short time.

For now, influxes of new users counter the churn.  That's a temporary fix, as most of those folks aren't ever coming back, and most people won't even open an account here to begin with.  The market for Steemit is limited, and being shrunk by disaffected former users.

Think about how losing 90% of accounts year on year will certainly destroy the platform, and reconsider whether we have what we need.

We don't.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@joe.public ·
$0.17
We are on the same page brother, well mostly.

And I know @skeptic he is a great guy even when he is a bit crazy. He was still being attacked at the time I first came into contact with him. 

I do not believe we are incapable of turning this shit around. Not all of the whales share a witch hunt mentality. Actually it is only a very few, but they do hold lots of accounts which are mostly empty. At the moment its great because bernie is starting to use his smaller accounts usually used for Mining the Reward Pool with bots. If the pressure continues he will be revealing more.
That way we understand how much SP is needed to subdue his activities
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@live-and-learn ·
$10.45
I upvoted this even though I do not entirely agree with you. What I am excited about is the quality of you writings and the fact that you are always willing do debate others in the comment section while staying level-headed!

Keep up the good work and you will grow fast!
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@pawsdog ·
No worries, thank you so much for the comment. I think that people matter and are worthy of my time. I think that it would be shallow of me to write an article for people but then ignore them if they ask about it. Opinions matter, people matter and I can be nothing without supporters. So I will support them as well.. Thank you for the comment
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@live-and-learn ·
Your attitude is refreshing and much needed on Steemit :)
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@revo ·
$0.06
Yep, he got a new follower in me because of his writings over the last few days.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@live-and-learn ·
$0.12
I think he has gotten a few :) 
Not many in here would write about the subjects that @pawsdog has chosen out of fear of being unpopular, downvoted, etc., glad that someone here has journalistic integrity!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@pawsdog ·
$0.13
thank you, I try to touch on tough topics and be just aggressive enough that I don't burn this account and make to many enemies but at the same time get the info out there. I'm going to give it some time to be forgotten about before I get more interesting again on the hot button topics that can piss those off in power. I am happy the community stepped in and helped. Really gives one faith.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@indurkin ·
$12.53
Good post, here is my opinion on your suggestions.

I wouldn't be in favor of an arbitrary cap on rewards, I think that would be a bit too blunt. I can also see it being a thing that would require regular adjustment based on the value of steem/SBD/USD etc. However I think a system of diminishing returns could work well. ie a relitavly small amount for voting power would be required to get a post from 0-10 dollars but a much larger amount of power would be required to get a post from 100 to 110 dollars.  IMO this would not only ensure that any given user does not get too much of the reward pool but would also help to direct more net rewards towards minnows and new users.

On the idea of a post cap, I don't like that at all, again it's rather arbitrary and dependent on the type of content a given user is producing.  The recent disagreement points to this a lot, but as a follower of @haejin I always found it useful to be able to ignore or just scan through the posts relating to coins I'm not interested in.  However going back to the previous point, if we had a system of diminishing returns on a per user basis rather than a per post basis that would allow for content types that favor high post count without it making any difference to the overall payout for a given user. 

For outgoing voting and flagging, diminishing returns on a per user basis could also work.  For example lets say I upvote user A and it gives $1, if I vote for him again he only gets 90c but a vote for user B would still be worth $1. 

Adding reputation to calculations could help to discourage the use of bots and multiple accounts but this would be far more complicated imo.  At the very least I think some kind of exception would be necessary for the likes of steemcleaners.  Maybe the witnesses could be empowered in some way to police that.
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@pawsdog ·
$0.10
Solid idea about diminished returns on voting and flagging I never thought of that but it is a really solid idea and tailors well into what I offered without being so definitive.  We will  for the moment have to agree to disagree on a post cap or combine the two ideas yours and mine, but diminished returns is an excellent idea. I suppose in essence you could could apply a post cap through your method wherein the amount of SP to push a post from say 100 to 150 would be prohibitively expensive in terms of SP. We may be on to something..
👍  
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vote details (1)
@indurkin ·
$1.11
Well if you don't have a post cap and base the diminishing returns around the user instead of the post then I think you can kill two birds with one stone.  Of course you would have to base the visibility of each individual post on something other than the payout amount.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@vimukthi ·
$0.10
I'd rather have a simpler and elegant system where it's easy to calculate everything. Let's say you put a cap of max rewards per week = number of unique upvoters per week X 5

No other arbitrary limitations and codes where you can find a loophole to game the system. The only way to game the system would be to make hundreds of bots which would be easily noticed and will also require much work to create and maintain bots.

As for flagging I think 100% flag should cost 3% or even 4% VP instead of 2%. Naturally the flags will be focused on negative content and flagging wars would end faster and will be costly.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@indurkin ·
$1.12
Yeah, simpler is better.  I'm not talking about anything too complicated, just a system similar to leveling in games, the higher you get the more xp is required to gain another level.  It should be fairly easy to follow and it only needs to apply to author rewards, not curation because you don't want to discourage curators from upvoting a post just because others have upvoted to a particular level already.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@pawsdog ·
I have come to think that the "flag" in an of itself sends the wrong message, as well it is positioned incorrectly on the page. If we are to keep a "flag" then let it be for content that is egregious or violates policy (hate speech, illegal content etc.) It should serve to notify a super user or delegation of content that should be examined further.

Along the bottom of the article simple add a downvote option to offset the upovote option as they essentially carry the same weight. Much like thumbs up or down on FB.. 

In regards to the flag, leave it in its current place but limit its use to egregious content and apply a penalty if it is deemed to have been used in a malicious fashion. 

As to the cost in SP, making it more expensive to be a dick.. I agree.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@abhicrypto ·
You are doing a lot for the Steem community @pawsdog !!!! Thanks for your effort , respect to you !
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@pawsdog ·
Why thank you.. I don't feel like anybody yet.. but maybe by working together we can all become something.
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@valued-customer · (edited)
$11.81
I'm gonna pick on you, because you'll only get better for it.  That's the core of the scientific method, after all, and you seem to be actually capable of reason, unlike a lot of folks.  That's about the highest compliment I can give, BTW =p

>"...the financial benefit of the platform brings with it the inclusion of greed..."

This isn't true.  You're conflating money with the love of money.  Separate more carefully assumptions from facts, please.

>"money is the root of all evil.”  

Look up the original quote, rather than your misquote.  It is actually 'The love of money is the root of all evil.'  There is a difference, and it is subtle, but deeply profound.

>"...payouts are just compensation for our hard work and dedication; anyone who says otherwise is just bitter, hateful or needs to put in more work."

Complete hogwash, that completely ignores the extant financial structure of Steemit.  Most Steem was flashmined by few individuals, who still own the vast majority of Steem extant, and completely control the platform.  

The witnesses are elected via stakeweighted votes, just as all votes on Steemit are stakeweighted.  This means that Steem controls the witnesses, and if they don't perform as those possessing the majority of Steem want, they can be immediately replaced with others that will.  

About 30% of Steem presently votes for witnesses.  Almost every bit of that Steem that elects the witnesses was born of the initial flashmine, that occurred before Steemit was public.  There are 39 whales who own the majority of Steem, and because of this extreme imbalance in distribution of Steem, which weights votes, they essentially hold ALL the power to determine how the platform operates.

Those 39 accounts are the actual market for Steemit--not half a million accounts.

A userbase is necessary to provide upwards pressure on Steem.  If all Steem was held by 39 accounts, it would still be worthless, completely imaginary.  No individual non-whale matters much, it is the size of the userbase that actually matters.

>"...a multiplier that weights a user’s potential impact not solely on their SP (the amount of money they have), but on their reputation as well..."

Something like this is true.  Calibrae was an attempt by @l0k1 to do exactly that, though I attempted to convince him to avoid weighting VP with SP at all.  Further reputation as structured on Steemit is just a game.  

You can buy reputation by buying votes presently.  That makes it largely useless.  Since it is largely useless, no one bother to game it much.  @skeptic, who has been repeatedly flagged into negative rep, and recovered from it, can provide more information about how this is done.

Delinking VP from SP, and preferentially weighting it with non-gamable rep that actually represented community vetting, would, all by itself, fix almost all problems Steemit has.  It will never happen, as it is counter to the financial interests of the 39 accounts that own Steemit, by owning almost all the Steem in the world.

About the only other changes that needs to  be made, are eliminating bots voting, and curation rewards.  I can suggest a mechanism that can virtually eliminate bots, if not actually and completely.  Ending curation rewards is a simple deletion of code.

These, too, will never happen, for the same reason.

Author rewards is the heart and soul of Steemit.  Stakeweighting, OTOH, is destroying it, and mostly by using bots to do it.

With these three changes, all of the financial manipulation is eliminated, almost all of the spam, and scams, and none of the other mitigatory and desperate measures to try to make what Steemit has become work are necessary.  Mitigations to the extant imbalance of power merely make it more complex, less opaque, and harder to fix.  It is the imbalance of power that needs to be fixed directly, eliminating financial manipulation.

Thanks for bringing this topic up, and doing some clear thinking about it.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@therecantonlybe1 ·
$0.05
What you posted here about most of the steem being flash mined and held by a small handful of individuals is something that I suspected, but didn't have information to confirm. Even if the steem was initially distributed more broadly, the system of stake-weighting will promote a widening income and wealth gap.
👍  
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@valued-customer ·
>"...the system of stake-weighting will promote a widening income and wealth gap."

Your prediction is correct.  Steemit's GINI (measuring the disparity between the wealthy and the rest of us) is worse on Steemit than any nation on Earth, and getting worse at an accelerating pace.  Good insight!

![2017-11-24-LevelShares-EN.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdAV147qVLnv6rDqUT98mCTb4Pc67tDZsvM2jPdsvCmNs/2017-11-24-LevelShares-EN.png)

We gained one whale, and ~about 30 dolphins in the last month or so.

The skewing of Steem holdings is profound, and seems not to be inadvertaint.

After all, actions do speak louder than rhetoric.

Thanks!
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@cryptographic · (edited)
$13.98
>Delinking VP from SP, and preferentially weighting it with non-gamable rep that actually represented community vetting, would, all by itself, fix almost all problems Steemit has. _**It will never happen, as it is counter to the financial interests of the 39 accounts that own Steemit, by owning almost all the Steem in the world.**_

We need to distinguish between short term interests and long term interests and present them with their "feast today, famine tomorrow" dilemma. Perhaps there might be a change in attitude, at least with some of them, and they might also get more active when it comes to preserving their long term wealth. 

In any event, I disagree with complete delinking from SP - that would destroy practically all incentive to convert to SP and would severely limit larger investors from playing the more active role they want to play in the day-to-day functioning of Steemit.

Happy mediums are my best friends. My favorite suggestion at present is the logarithmic/multiplier "diminishing returns" idea for both upvotes and downvotes (I would go one step further and completely eliminate downvoting and thereby force everyone to think in the positive). That would go a long ways in the right direction with a minimum of negative fallout . . . I would think.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@valued-customer ·
>"I disagree with complete delinking from SP - that would destroy practically all incentive to convert to SP and would severely limit larger investors from playing the more active role they want to play in the day-to-day functioning of Steemit."

Which large investor will you show has been playing a larger role in the social intercourse on Steemit?  

More importantly, which investors can you show that might be willing to give up their profitable mining of rewards?

Steemit is open source.  @l0k1 attempted to make Calibrae from the model of Steemit, using modified rep and limited stakeweighting, and then @berniesanders attacked his pages offchain, and I have not heard from @l0k1 since.

I ask you to propose some reason that power to control the flow of rewards to their wallets might be even partially eschewed by those whales that now own all of it?

They aren't unaware of capital gains.  They do not pursue them for reasons.  They didn't tell me what those reasons are, but I am confident they have them.

I reckon simply cloning Steemit, while eliminating stakeweighting and curation rewards can be done quickly.  Making additional clones with such limited stakeweighting as you propose can be done quite quickly based on that initial clone, as can myriad other clones.

Rather than wrangle, and suppose fantastically that Steemit itself can be cajoled into fairness, let's just do that, instead.

Make some clones, and test them.
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@vimukthi ·
> (I would go one step further and completely eliminate downvoting and thereby force everyone to think in the positive). That would go a long ways in the right direction with a minimum of negative fallout . . . I would think.

I like your thinking but I don't fully agree. There should be a way to deal with negative content like Plagiarism, Spam, promoting terrorism, encouraging crime (violating NAP) etc. 

>logarithmic/multiplier "diminishing returns" 

I agree to this on downvotes + a separate section for the community to see downvoted content/authors and decide to downvote if they too deem the content as negative. 

I love the fact that you want to keep things positive. I've extensively written about this here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@vimukthi/a-philosophical-and-economic-outlook-at-steemit-sbd-and-flagging-and-suggestions-for-a-better-future-based-on-positive
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@pawsdog ·
$0.06
I understand the original passage from 1 Timothy 6:10

The Bible makes it quite clear that sin is the root of all evil in the world (Matthew 15:19; Romans 5:12; James 1:15).Wealth is morally neutral; there is nothing wrong with money, in and of itself, or the possession of money. However, when money begins to control us, that’s when trouble starts. To that end I see the "control" aspect being the issue on this platform with some, not all users. 

I agree with you in that the bots have to be eliminated, as they remove the human aspect from the platform and create an environment conducive of buying popularity with no correlation as to quality of authorship. 

The question is where do we start? We see the problems, we have identified the problems, who needs a foot in the ass to begin creating change for the better? Is the system broken or is the system that manages the system flawed?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@indurkin ·
$1.12
That is very interesting but unsettling information, assuming what you are saying is accurite, (I have no reason to believe otherwise).  I knew about the ninja mine and always felt the power imbalance.  I didn't realise it was that profound though.  In all honesty, if the bulk of that steem is not gradually divested this platform is doomed.  Someone will take the good bits and start something new.  It's not a question of if, just when.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@bitfiend ·
I like the freedom of the earning potential here but I see the problem you bring forth.  It almost boils down to it's not what you know, it's who you know.  Meaning if you've got a whale on your side, someone with upvote bots, a network of friends / backers / followers or Mr. Benjamin Franklin himself you can post literally anything and generate hundreds.

As someone who's dealt with plenty of limits and hard caps in my life I somewhat disagree with any sort of hard cap but I would like to present what I feel might be a better idea.  That is to put a hard cap on the potential rewards percentage.  The main problem is the rewards pool.  Not necessarily a USD amount, as it was more or less used as comparison to the argument.  This was the 6.7%. Accurate or not it caused quite a stir.  While the new number was still at over 1%, and whether or not the flags caused the 6.7% to drop to just over 1% is unknown to me but the question is *What percent of the rewards pool in a 7 day period is considered too much for one user to suck up?*

We would have to see what percentage other whales are taking up on a 7 day basis, however the earnings probably fluctuate so 1% this week might only be 0.2% next week for the same creator.

I can use @exyle as an example because he is delivering a lot of good for the platform with Steemify.  I usually try to catch his videos and I would say with the work he's done I think his earnings are well deserved.  Over the last 7 days he's sitting at just over 11 grand in potential earnings holding about 0.57% of the rewards pool and no one bats an eye.

*I am most certainly not batting an eye.*  Like I said, I feel his earnings are just based on the observation I've made that he's contributed a lot to this platform.  These numbers are simply used as an example so we can all be on the same page.  

What percent of the rewards pool is *too much* for *any* user?
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@valued-customer ·
>"...if you've got a whale on your side, someone with upvote bots, a network of friends / backers / followers or Mr. Benjamin Franklin himself you can post literally anything and generate hundreds."

No.  @ranchorelaxo was on @haejin's side.  
Many were on @krnel's side, once.

These rogue upvotes of the plebs were a threat to the entire purpose of Steemit, and were crushed.  Their rewards were returned to the rewards pool, where the 39 whales could get them, as is the purpose of stakeweighting.

As long as plebs impact the rewards pool insignificantly, they're fine.  When they threaten the ROI of whales, they need to be crushed. 

Wise dolphins know this.  They post their $hundreds earning posts but rarely, and thus are permitted.

This is the Steemit way.
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@revo ·
There's some good points for further discussion here.  Although I don't agree with your last more controversial point.  Thanks for contributing this.  Resteemed.
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