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RE: My take on Self-voting, Vote-buying and Reward Pool Rape by teamsteem

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Viewing a response to: @cryptographic/re-teamsteem-re-cryptographic-re-teamsteem-re-shenanigator-re-teamsteem-re-felixxx-my-take-on-the-self-voting-vote-buying-and-reward-pool-rape-20180102t114658111z

· @teamsteem ·
$17.60
You express yourself very well.

That being said, I misread part of your previous reply and I thought you said votes should be more equal, something close to 1 person 1 vote. 

> Those who have the most to lose, the largest investors, must have larger votes.

I mean to say proportional to their stake as opposed to 1 person 1 vote. 

Policing/flags are necessary because if they didn't exist then abusers could just vote themselves all the time and they would end up owning most of the stake. Dan has stated such and said if flags were to be removed, he would prove his point with upvoting himself all the time most probably with the use of a bot.  

As for the non linear reward, the logic is the same, under the current rule if my assessment is correct the abusers will end up making the most money because it's easier to abuse the rule than to police the abusers.  

Right now, it's easier to use a bot to create 10 posts a day and upvote those posts with a bot than to police those abusers. 

Under a non linear curve new dynamics are created which are explain in Dan's post Evil whales. 

Under n^2 it becomes more profitable to try to predict what the largest whales are going to vote on than to vote for oneself. 

On the other hand, non linear reward curve leaves open the possibility for the largest whales to abuse the system but it would be possible to police them while under the current system pretty much everyone besides the witnesses have incentives to abuse the systems and thus the system become unpoliceable. 

Under a non linear reward, the largest whales could try to abuse the system but then they would screw with their investment or be police by larger whales or group of whales. (whales can police other whales but no one can police millions of minnows) It would be really easy to monitor the voting pattern of the largest whales and thus if they have abusive pattern, investors would avoid investing decentivizing most whales to abuse the system. 

Also, the non linear reward makes STEEM harder to receive by votes and thus more valuable for those who receive   and own them. When selling STEEM which confer a squared voting power to anyone who acquires them, it's really enticing to buy those Steem instead of letting the competition have them. 

If my understanding is correct, non linear reward makes abuse harder than trying to play the game right. 

Dan isn't talking on top of his head. He is very coherent and very well thought out and people don't seem to give him enough credit for his observations and many are quick to dismiss him without rebutting him with factual observations. 

I'm not saying he's right or that I'm right but what I'm saying is that our point is not being address. 

If it's easier to abuse the platform than to create good content then that's what is going to happen and abusers will end up with the most STEEM overtime and abuse will permeate Steem.  This is a fundamental issue and can't be relegated to afterthoughts. 

Thank you for your interest in the matter. I haven't read your post yet but I will.
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vote details (2)
@cryptographic · (edited)
$11.58
Yes, we're talking about the same thing: voting power that is proportional to stake. 

I also think I'm a bit clearer now on what is being proposed - some sort of compromise somewhere between liner and n^2 complemented by negative flags - and the reasoning behind it. Not exactly perfect, but perhaps the best option at present. 

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me better understand.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@teamsteem ·
$15.57
Yep. I think some middle ground has some worth. 

This is mostly talk right now cause Steemit Inc is totally against changing the current system so it makes such change very unlikely but I'm okay with this. It can always be changed in the future if future Steem holders change their mind on the current system. 

Like I said, I'm not 100% for one of the other. It's such a complex situation. It's really hard to understand all the repercussion.
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