Introducing the Steem Defender Bot. Designed to Protect Steem From Economic Collapse and Support Minnow Growth (Article) by earthnation

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· @earthnation · (edited)
$31.00
Introducing the Steem Defender Bot. Designed to Protect Steem From Economic Collapse and Support Minnow Growth (Article)
Here in the Earth Nation, we really love the concept of Steem.

We perceive that Steem has a weakness that may dramatically effect the value of Steem on the open market and make Steem very difficult to sell. 

![ascimages25.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmcx5bcwcEXVjj8NCZ8L1Jg2wHVTdvScnjYYfneyS7d7Mh/ascimages25.jpg)

Here’s an example; 
A hedge-fund with access to billions of dollars purchases all of the Steem available on the open markets. That Hedge-Fund then places buy orders for Steem at a higher rate, temporarily artificially increasing the price of Steem to 7 dollars per. They then power up a network of like-bots to automatically engage with AI spun content to turn Steem into an automated ROI farm. They start dumping massive amounts of Steem on the market without increasing the demand for Steem or adding any value to the user/content base. Thus devaluing all of Steem. 

For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency. They then place another 50M into Buy Order for more Steem.  When the Price of Steem goes from 0.84 to 7 dollars per Steem because of this move, that 100M worth of Steem is now worth 700M. The Hedge Fund then uses this 700M worth of Steem to POWER UP. 

This Hedge Fund intelligently diversifies this Steem into thousands of different accounts to attempt to hide this move to monopolize Steem. The Fund then automates all of these profiles with AI automation and sets up a network of cross-liking and comment upvoting that hides itself from the rest of the Steem community by never upvoting posts enough to hit trending, while also never using any normal tags. 

The Hedge-Fund then uses its 700M power to upvote exclusively their own posts and comment content. They start making 70,000 dollars worth of Steem every single day by doing this. 2.1M a month. 25.55M dollars a year. 

Based on this example, it would only take a 150 million dollar initial investment to start producing almost 25 million dollars a year. What’s more, 50 million dollars of that initial investment would come back within a month after the hedge-fund drops the buy orders after powering up. That’s a 25% yearly interest bank-account. 

We know of Hedge-Funds that are just waiting for the Steem User Base to grow larger so they can safely pull this move off and milk the Steem economy for as much as they can before the increased supply without an increase in demand crashes the price of Steem beneath 1 cent per making it almost impossible to sell. 

Because of this Vulnerability we cannot yet bring Steemit to our Greater Network. 

Our Solution to this problem is a new variable attached to all Steem accounts. For the purpose of this Example, Let’s call this Variable “Influence”. Every account starts with 100 Influence. 

Accounts that consistently either like their own content, and/or continuously like the content of the same accounts, and/or continuously like the content of accounts that have been associated as “bots” will lose influence every week. Accounts that consistently like content from users they haven't liked before gain influence. 

Accounts that have an influence score less than 100 have a penalty to their upvote power. At 0 influence a 70% penalty is applied.

Accounts that have an influence score more than 100 have an increase to their upvote power. At the 200 influence cap a 30% boost is applied. 

To keep a 200 influence, accounts must engage with totally new users 10% of the time, and engage with users that they have not frequently engaged with 25% of the time. 

For users that do not want to spend a lot of time finding new authors, we strongly recommend giving some of your weekly votes towards a curation service that will automatically use your votes to find new users with the best content. 

This solution will not only dramatically reduce the ROI from Hedge-Funds seeking to monopolize steem to the point where it will collapse our economic system from flooding the market with steem without increasing the demand for steem…. This solution will also facilitate more support for new authors who are trying to be seen. Which is the other greatest problem Steem faces; It is very difficult to get started here making a noticeable income. 

We realize that steemit-upvote bots pose a similar issue. Wherein an hedge fund can inflate the price of steem, use that to get a lot of power up, then delegate their vote to mercenary bots to get the same 25% yearly Interest. However…. This potential problem is much easier to solve, as it is very easy to track these mercenary bots and who is funding them. It is a simple thing to setup a bot swarm to automatically give a 30-50% penalty to these mercenary bots, which will dramatically reduce the ROI for investors to prevent pumping and dumping of Steem on the market. 

Our Economic Team also strongly recommends that the Founders of Steem reserve at least 50M steem for the purpose of filling buy orders/placing sell orders at ranges between 2-10 dollars to prevent artificial inflation and manipulation of Steem Value.

We have 2 potential avenues to integrate these solutions into Steem.

1. Fork/Adjust the Steem Code.

2. Create a Data Service that automatically compiles all users influence and makes all Steem users influence rating and upvoting habits known to all other Steem users. Then create a swarm of bots that automatically penalize those with low influence while boosting those with high influence.  

The Purpose of this Article is to determine whether Steemians support this Solution. If we find the Steem community to be in support we will create this data service and bot swarm software free of charge and Open-source. Alternatively we are open to helping fork the code to include this upgrade. 

If you think we are somehow incorrect about our perspective or calculations, let us know. Please list sources from official steem sites to back up your perspective. If you have a better solution to this problem, please share it!

If you agree with our solutions, please show us your support!
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@dannyshine ·
$0.03
Not sure that I fully comprehend what you wrote here but it sounds sensible.
👍  ,
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@earthnation ·
@dannyshine Please let us know if anything in particular was especially unclear, or if we can further elaborate on any specific point.
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@enamul1994 ·
Dear all,
I make a facebook group for steemit Vot and Comment. evrybody can join in my group. this is the link. Click hear for join........ ill add you https://m.me/join/AbYsEkpXB2Ys7ahN
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@enamul1994 ·
Dear all,
I make a facebook group for steemit Vot and Comment. evrybody can join in my group. this is the link. Click hear for join........ ill add you https://m.me/join/AbYsEkpXB2Ys7ahN
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@leyla5 ·
$0.09
Don't give them ideas :) On a more serious note it is great article and we should think about that
👍  , ,
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@earthnation ·
:o :p Thank you!
👍  
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@josephsavage ·
$0.02
Ha! My first reaction was "thanks for the game plan," but I don't have that level of resources...
👍  , , ,
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@earthnation ·
:p
👍  
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@anforo ·
$0.78
What a marvelous excitement - people start to think ahead!
👍  ,
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@privat ·
$0.24
Sounds like you're really thinking seriously about the future! You got my support if you choose to create another similar platform. I'll try it out and look into it that is..  Otherwise the swarm of bots penalizing low influence users seems most probable at a glance!

If bad bots are used to collapse the Steem economy we just have to make the good bots stronger and evolve them with ideas like this beeing brought to the surface. I really hope you get a lot of feedback on this. Peace!
👍  , , ,
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@earthnation ·
Thank you!
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@bypaul ·
$0.13
That reads like some really reasonable solutions. Some might need a little finetuning, but all in all I like the way you are thinking. Has someone pitched this to steemit inc. ?
👍  , ,
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@earthnation ·
We have had a hard time finding a way to approach the founders of steem/steemit. 

How do we get in contact with them @bypaul?
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@bypaul ·
Im too new myself to have any connections. However I asked around a bit, maybe some people can do something
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@paulmoon410 ·
Hey Paul... I’m a
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@bypaul ·
Hey Paul ;D
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@drotto ·
$0.03
<p>This post has received a 1.96 % upvote from @drotto thanks to: @earthnation.</p>
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@iqbaallsm ·
I just posted about the introduction in steemit, I hope you can see and up vote my post thanks
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@discernente ·
$0.15
I like the idea to reward those that upvote good contents from different users, and penalize those who upvote always the same users.
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@upgoater ·
$0.10
<p>This post has received a 81.91 % upvote from @upgoater thanks to: @earthnation.</p>
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@alorozario ·
$0.04
I agree with your solutions.
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@stayoutoftherz ·
$0.29
Sounds very interesting, just it is not clear to me how you "...create a swarm of bots that automatically penalize those with low influence..." How much power need those bots to significantly penalize the Hedgefond-bots who in sum are "700M worth of Steem"?
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@earthnation · (edited)
A very intelligent response @stayoutoftherz

Yes..... we would need at least 30% of the steem power that the abusing bot swarms have to effectivley combat them. Meaning in this case use example; about 200M in steem power. 

Which is part of why it makes so much more sense to fork the code instead, if that is an option. 

However.... if steem founders themselves were to delegate power to our Steem Defender Swarm, the swarm would work. Otherwise, it is unlikely that the Steem Defender Swarm will ever be able to compete against hedge-fund abuser bot swarms.
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@votebank ·
Good content.
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@appreciator ·
<p>This post has received gratitude of 100.00 % from @appreciator thanks to @earthnation.</p>
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@sanmi ·
$0.71
What happens, if someone hacks into the Data Service ? And what is the definition of engagement ? How would you define that ?
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@earthnation ·
Wow! What an intelligent thought on how this solution could fail. Thank you @sanmi.

Well! Ultimately, our data service would be its own blockchain. However.... our developers work first by making web-based applications. 

If our web based app was hacked, we would almost certainly notice it..... and then we would recall all of the votes made by our botswarm so long as we caught the hack within 7 days. 

The definition of engagement for the purpose of this example is purely "upvoting".
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@bashadow ·
$0.25
> Well! Ultimately, our data service would be its own blockchain.

Then why do you not go and <b>BUILD</b> your own blockchain? If your group has 700 million dollars to "play with".  Oh--but then you would already have preset rules for people joining your blockchain, and people would not join because of <b>YOUR</b> rules, so you would never have very many users. Is that why you are trying to tell me and other people on steemit how to, who, when and why to vote for?
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@sanmi ·
I don't think, its going to work. I have a better suggestion for you. If you really have the ability to advertise Steem to 20+ million followers, then go to big brands, like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc. 

And ask them to reward people in terms of Steem , when someone buys their product or Service. That way, we will have more stake holders in this platform and that will create more trust. 

And they will  get direct customers so that they can pay here, in stead of what they spend in advertising.
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@qurator ·
$0.04
Quratorcomment
<center>Qurator</center> | <center>Your Quality Content Curator</center>
-|-|
![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmNzJZFNXnViq9Ebmccf3rLi7kiYrcHFnFqeKK7QnWYtRs/COMMENT.png) | This post has been upvoted and given the stamp of authenticity by @qurator. To join the quality content creators and receive daily upvotes click [here](https://steemit.com/qurator/@qurator/qurator-update-cheaper-tier-access-and-increased-registration-fee) for more info. 
<center>*Qurator's exclusive support bot is now live. For more info click [HERE](https://steemit.com/qurator/@qurator/qurator-support-bot-alive-and-active-welcome-to-qustodian) or send some SBD and your link to @qustodian to get even more support.*</center>
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vote details (3)
@myeasin ·
Very Intersting post @earthnation
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@bronevik ·
$0.28
@earthnation, you don't get the crypto economy yet.
If some entity grows in power and cripples the network for its selfish interest beyond repair then we just abandon steemit, create steemit2 and move there.

Imagine that you could create another Earth. When Hitler rose in power you just creating another planet and move there - there is no need to fight him. Just left him to build his own totalitarian hell on an empty planet.

In case of evil hedge fund, it just pump our coin 10 times and left behind in empty blockchain generating coins noone will buy on open market.
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vote details (7)
@igster · (edited)
$0.13
He also imagines someone could buy all Steem just like that. It just isn't that easy. This whole strategy is built upon a situation that is very unlikely to happen. Go try and buy all bitcoin or all tulips, you'll see what happens to the price. You can't just magically buy them all at the current price. The increased volume will be noticed and you have to take into account that there's only 70 million Steem liquid while majority is locked up in SP. But yes, I welcome every fund to try and buy all steem, good luck.

E: also if they were to get somehow "all the Steem" or in this case 60 million or so, they would be one of the biggest holders meaning they'd probably see growing Steem to be used by everyone as far more lucrative path than just milking it dry almost right after getting majority stake.
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vote details (3)
@ats-david · (edited)
$2.85
It's hard for socialists to comprehend asset markets...or economics in general. Whoever these people are, they have *no clue* about anything market-related. The entire scenario that they painted, from the very start, is nothing but a BS attempt to gain power from the uneducated/uninformed, which is nothing new for people who have adopted this type of "progressive" politics/philosophy. 

Even if we were to assume that a hedge fund would want to buy "all of the STEEM," they don't factor in how much STEEM is locked up in SP, as you mentioned, which is somewhere around 75% right now. So, best-case scenario, the hedge fund could only hold a maximum of 25% of *all* tokens.

If a hedge fund bought $100 million of STEEM at current prices (even if we assumed that the price wouldn't rise while they were buying, which would be stupid and incorrect), and the price then increased to $700 million, why would they then proceed to tank their $616 million profit rather than cash it out or reinvest it in the ecosystem or elsewhere? They would need to be "farming" accounts and posting for a *very* long time in order to see any returns that are comparable to that increase from prices rising. And the system would be dead long before they could take advantage of it...and they'd lose their massive profit. 

My suggestion for them would be to actually learn about the blockchain, economics, and some basic math, perhaps.
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vote details (15)
@earthnation ·
@bronevik and @igster. There is truth to what you are both saying about being able to abandon steemit, and that any hedge-fund who did this would be obviously invested into the continued sucess of steem.... at least until they pulled out. 

This ROI Steem-automation process would in fact happen over the course of many years.

Think about this; even if a hedge-fund does this so intelligently, that steem never crashes.... Would you still want that? 

Would you want an group that doesn't add value to steem to benefit from 20-50% of the entire steem reward pool?

Regardless of whether the hedge-funds will crash steem, We believe it is so important we reduce the capacity of the extremeley wealthy to milk our economic system. 

Do you agree that we should do our best to make Steem a fair place wherin no individual or group is allowed to reap massive amounts of steem without adding value to our community?
👍  , , , ,
👎  
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vote details (6)
@bronevik ·
$0.23
There is a reasonable trade-off between inequality and growth. Ideal asset equality is when everyone has nothing. Here and now we tolerate rather significant levels of inequality. But even whales here are pretty social. For now. In future it might become a problem then we have a few solutions in hand like sqrt-like vests curve or more complicated reward system.

I do believe that the properties of open and no-barriers crypto systems prevent extreme totlitarian scenarios by themselves. We just need to take care of rough edges as soon as they become bounds to growth and development.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@igster ·
"Would you want an group that doesn't add value to steem to benefit from 20-50% of the entire steem reward pool?" As I said before, if they'd have this big of a share, it would be in their best interest to provide value. Pulling out takes time and if that would be to happen, people would eventually scoop up enough cheap Steem to make it rise again. 
Or do you think they would blatantly use the system, making everyone else power down as well, hurting their profits immensely? 

It's good to be thinking about these scenarios. I'll think about it, but if some major player would begin to try and get all liquid Steem, let's say 50 million out of 250 million total supply. This would drive up price insanely as in your scenario they would need to power it all up. As they drive the price up, those who have the 200 million can start selling as prices go lunatic (imagine minimal liquid Steem) and buy back lower. 

These are just my initial thoughts.
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@bashadow ·
$0.70
Finally, someone with eyes. Thank you.
👍  , , , , , , ,
👎  ,
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vote details (10)
@mrwilson ·
The value of Bitcoin Cash is easy to see. But you need to look at its value from a FIAT currency perspective and not from a crypto currency perspective if you are going to see that value.

The word "cash" provides the biggest clue. It was no doubt chosen for the new currency because it invokes a sense of tangibility ( and normalcy ) in the minds of people. The target market for Bitcoin Cash is ordinary consumers...
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@dksart ·
There already is a duplicate of steemit it is https://golos.io/
Not as popular though
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@dakotakaiser ·
Does it have an English version?
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@dksart ·
I dont think so, I am not that familiar with it, but I think the point was just to create a russian version duplicate of steemit with their own crypto currency 
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/golos/
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@jacobtothe ·
The #en tag there covers posts in English.
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@steemthat ·
<p>This post has received a 37.50 % upvote from @steemthat thanks to: @earthnation.
Thank you for your support. Delegate Steem Power In 3 Seconds... <a href="https://SteemThat.com">SteemThat.com</a></p>
👍  
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vote details (1)
@preparedwombat ·
$0.07
Oddly enough, this post was upvoted by bots.
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@earthnation ·
Its not that bots are bad @preparedwombat. So long as they are used correctly. For instance, were paying a small fee to have our post boosted to trending, so that more people can become aware of us and the solutions we are bringing to the Steem Community. 

If people do not like what we have to offer, they can simply flag us and shoot us down. Which has happened a few times.... we've lost over 100 dollars to downvotes since joining. 

Mercenary up-vote bots when used in a good way help good content to rise and be seen. Bad content won't stay on top for long without being flagged down. 

Does this make sense to you?
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@preparedwombat ·
$0.15
But pretty much everybody thinks that their content getting flagged is inherently abuse.

They all have what they think are good reasons why their stuff should not be flagged but it's okay for them to flag, as with your swarm of bots.
👍  
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@shagorshikder ·
steem ..i love this..most
it changed my world
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@boomerang ·
$6.41
This post has received a 61.17 % upvote from @boomerang thanks to: @earthnation<br><br>@boomerang distributes 100% of the SBD and up to 80% of the Curation Rewards to STEEM POWER Delegators. If you want to bid for votes or want to delegate SP please read <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@boomerang/boomerang-a-new-steemit-bid-bot-for-all-steemians-whitepaper">the @boomerang whitepaper</a>.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , ,
👎  
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@boomerang ·
$0.14
This post has received a 37.19 % upvote from @boomerang thanks to: @boomerang-fund<br><br>@boomerang distributes 100% of the SBD and up to 80% of the Curation Rewards to STEEM POWER Delegators. If you want to bid for votes or want to delegate SP please read <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@boomerang/boomerang-a-new-steemit-bid-bot-for-all-steemians-whitepaper">the @boomerang whitepaper</a>.
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@mrwilson ·
The value of Bitcoin Cash is easy to see. But you need to look at its value from a FIAT currency perspective and not from a crypto currency perspective if you are going to see that value.

The word "cash" provides the biggest clue. It was no doubt chosen for the new currency because it invokes a sense of tangibility ( and normalcy ) in the minds of people. The target market for Bitcoin Cash is ordinary consumers...
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@osman28 ·
nice post, follow me
@osman28
👍  
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vote details (1)
@nokodemion ·
If a dollar had twice the buying power tomorrow, you'd only need one instead of two. Apply that concept to steem.
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@lovejuice ·
$0.03
<p>This post has received a 31.51 % upvote from @lovejuice thanks to: @earthnation.  They love you, so does Aggroed.  Please be sure to vote for Witnesses at https://steemit.com/~witnesses.</p>
👍  ,
👎  ,
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vote details (4)
@minnowhelper ·
<p>This post has received a 62.50 % upvote from https://steemitimages.com/DQmcZYv2276nr6zEDDTZY1iLcgaBiNqumAnYtmvxNtr5zrW/minnow_klein.png thanks to: @earthnation. <br>For more information, <a href="https://steemit.com/customerservice/@minnowhelper/minnowhelper-technical-support">click here!!!</a>!<br></p>

<p>The Minnowhelper team is still looking for investors (Minimum 10 SP), if you are interested in this, read the conditions of how to invest <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@minnowhelper/new-minnowhelper-investment-rules">click here!!!</a></p>
👍  
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vote details (1)
@treeplanter ·
Thanks for your donation
Good job! Thanks to @dakotakaiser you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14295.79. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP. 

Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter 
[www.kedjom-keku.com](www.kedjom-keku.com)
👍  
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@booster ·
<p>This post has received a 40.01 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @earthnation.</p>
👍  ,
👎  ,
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vote details (4)
@steemitboard ·
Congratulations @earthnation! You have completed some achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

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Click on any badge to view your own Board of Honor on SteemitBoard.
For more information about SteemitBoard, click [here](https://steemit.com/@steemitboard)

If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word `STOP`

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@pushup ·
<p>90.00% @pushup from @earthnation</p>
👍  
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vote details (1)
@noyon1122 ·
Wow
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@buildawhale ·
$0.02
<p>This post has received a 47.14 % upvote from @buildawhale thanks to: @earthnation.
Send at least 1 SBD to @buildawhale with a post link in the memo field for a portion of the next vote.</p>

<p>To support our daily curation initiative, please vote on my owner, @themarkymark, as a <a href="https://steemit.com/witness-category/@themarkymark/witness-themarkymark">Steem Witness</a></p>
👍  , ,
👎  
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vote details (4)
@brocrypto ·
Interesting information thanks for posting!
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@gokultiwari ·
This evaluations totally shocked me
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@joxus ·
$0.34
Really good thinking going on here. Amazing how much thought you put put into a solution. The steemit community is strong, we'll do whatever it takes to to take down any and all evil bots!! ;D
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@earthnation ·
Thank you! @joxus
👍  
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vote details (1)
@bashadow ·
$0.25
>  we'll do whatever it takes to to take down any and all evil bots!

Including giving up your choice of who to vote for? Of when to vote for someone? Of how often you are <b>allowed</b> to vote for someone? 
Do you remember the Nazi Party? Or how about this quote "You are either with us, or against us." I will never surrender my rights to evil.
👍  , , ,
👎  ,
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vote details (6)
@imon ·
yes,we are also love steemit.in here you just put on some news on steemit,that was very good.
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@spotlight ·
$0.64
"For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency."

If $84M came into the market, I doubt the price would remain at 84c
👍  , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (10)
@earthnation ·
Quite the Astute observation @spotlight. 

For simplicities sake, we did not further complicate this example with details such as the one you mentioned. There are in fact many additional variables that are not mentioned in this example.

We did the best we could to really simplify an otherwise overwhelmingly complicated process. 

Does this make sense to you?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@bashadow ·
$0.59
> There are in fact many additional variables that are not mentioned in this example.

Would one of those variable be exempting who has to vote the way **you** want them too, or exempting yourself from your own voting influence scheme?
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
👎  
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vote details (23)
@sneak ·
$0.44
> For simplicities sake, we did not further complicate this example with details such as the one you mentioned.

hahahahaha
👍  , , , , , , ,
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vote details (8)
@dachavez ·
$0.05
Very interesting. Hmmm. I can't say I understand it all but I'll read it another time or two. Thank you for the information.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@krazypoet ·
$0.12
I support you too, of course so hoping for the best in this situation, trying to save the system or create a new one better, wow, lets rock this boat and either sink or swim. be well and keep us posted on the progress i know you will. @earthnation
👍  
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vote details (1)
@anasir ·
a very intelligent respons bro
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@paulmoon410 ·
$0.33
This has really blown my mind. I can only imagine that the independence of crypto currency would allow for that to never happen. There’s always a chance that someone could manipulate anything given the right financial backing. There seems to be way too many smart people to allow this nonsense to occur. I’ve also got a white a few good points here in the same post so there’s only one thing left to do and that’s to keep pushing
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@earthnation ·
Yes! By proactivley thinking and embodying solutions we will protect our community from all those would attempt to manipulate the steem economy for personal benefit.
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@paulmoon410 ·
It’s kind of already happened though... too dogs kind of horde the wealth... but anything right now for me is great!!
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@bashadow ·
$0.76
Scare tactics, to get you to agree with them. To get you to give up your <b>VOTE</b> on steemit and only vote the way they want you to vote.
👍  , , , , , , , , , ,
👎  ,
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vote details (13)
@paulmoon410 ·
Huh? I mean... I vote for those whose material I like... or they act as decent beings... if anyone out there is actually reak
👍  
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vote details (1)
@statsmonkey ·
comment
Congratulations, your post received one of the top 10 most powerful upvotes in the last 12 hours. You received an upvote from @buildawhale valued at 78.38 SBD, based on the pending payout at the time the data was extracted.

If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, reply with the word "stop".
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@live-with-love ·
good post dear
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@bitgeek ·
comment
Congratulations @earthnation, this post is the  most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Hero account holder (accounts that hold between 10 and 100 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Hero account holders during this period was 283 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $2914.78. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, [click here](www.steemit.com/steemit/@bitgeek/payout-stats-report-for-13th-november-2017--part-i). 

If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, please reply stop to this comment.
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@berniesanders · (edited)
$10.87
It's hilarious that you're talking about "upvote bots" yet using them as often as possible to upvote your own posts.

I suggest you reconsider this hypocrisy.  FYI - on Friday I'll have enough SP back to counter all of your purchased hypocritical votes.

It's also hella rude for you to flag those bots comments just to try to hide them from your post considering they're the ones providing all of your rewards.

https://puu.sh/ylivW/c005e85f52.png
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 17 others
👎  
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vote details (82)
@bashadow ·
$0.27
It's okay @berniesanders, they just want to tell you who,what,when, and why to vote for someone. After all you are not <b>Smart enough</b> to do it yourself.

> Accounts that consistently either like their own content, and/or continuously like the content of the same accounts, and/or continuously like the content of accounts that have been associated as “bots” will lose influence every week. Accounts that consistently like content from users they haven't liked before gain influence.
👍  , , , , ,
👎  
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vote details (7)
@fechaugger · (edited)
If this guy is honest about helping minnows, then self voting would be beneficial since his steem power will get a boost.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@tarazkp ·
you seem to be confused about how it all works
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@mezmerizer9 ·
lol Feel the Bern?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@earthnation ·
$0.23
@berniesanders We'd like to reflect back to you the hateful nature of your perspective. Were doing the best we can to share positivity and fantastic ideas/articles and thoughts with our shared community. 

Why do you spend so much of your time and energy attacking us?
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@earthnation ·
There are many different people using upvote bots. What in particular is bothering you so much about our usage of up-vote bots?
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@inquiringtimes · (edited)
$0.43
the reason you are being chosen, is because you use a tag that has nothing to do with your post, and you are a known spammer \ tag spammer \ plaigerist \ upvotebot abuser.   that simple
👍  , , , , , , ,
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vote details (8)
@earthnation · (edited)
$0.11
@berniesanders we found that having all of the bot comments makes it difficult for this article to be used as a conversation thread. We don't see why its rude to hide those comments, will you please elaborate on why you feel it is wrong for us to clear the comment space for other peoples solutions to be more easily seen?
👍  , ,
👎  
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vote details (4)
@inquiringtimes ·
$0.83
why the heck would you use a dozen upvote bots in the first place? and then flag them?  If i sold you a service, and then you flagged me, I wouldn't want you as my customer.... it's just ignorant.

also, ignorant is hitting your post with every upvote service in the steemiverse.

upvote bots are supposed to help you get a bit of visibility, so other **people** will read your post and decide to vote it or not.  you are using them like a junkie... it's quite a bit more socially acceptable to use them sparingly, and make better content if you don't get enough natural votes.

also, you can just upvote the comments you like and then the real comments rise.  I prefer a requested bot comment to some of the bs fake comments, tbh. flagging the vote bots that you paid for? smh.....
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vote details (12)
@mooncryption ·
@earthnation, I believed censorship is a bad thing and that Steem should be an okay place for _everyone_ to get together and collaborate as a community.

You're ridiculing this principle just by _being_ here on Steemit. For the good of the rewards pool and for the good of our community, please stop milking upvote bots and promoting spammy content.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@shello ·
$1.57
Out of all the accounts, I hope that you take this one out first. People may not like you, but you are my hero for calling them out on their shit. Everyone else just sees dollar signs and stays quiet. I don't like scammers, and spammers, and I appreciate what you do. 


You are a witness to believe in @nextgencrypto

With love,
shello
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vote details (19)
@joshuatucker ·
"Out of all the accounts, I hope that you take this one out first."

The ability of a whale (or anybody bigger than you) to 'take out an account' is why A. serious authors won't invest their time/effort into steem and B. Steem will never hit mass adoption.

Applauding that behavior is not, in my opinion, in any way supporting Steemit.
👍  
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@natord ·
>FYI - on Friday I'll have enough SP back to counter all of your purchased hypocritical votes.

I didn't expect that you will come back here with power. If this is true, then that would be great :)
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@berniesanders ·
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vote details (35)
@surfermarly ·
$1.29
Thank you, Bernie!

> For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency. (...) When the Price of Steem goes from 0.84 to 7 dollars per Steem because of this move, that 100M worth of Steem is now worth 700M. 

Such a nonsense wouldn't have ever made it to the trending page without buying the position.
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@nokodemion ·
I just wrote an algorithm that naked short sells BTC. I'm going to sell the algorithm to the Citadel tomorrow, so you'd better get out today. :)
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@isacoin ·
i see what your concerns were with a post like this but you could end the bots and still have same problem with the amount of whales that sell their votes and when smts come everyone will be able to sell there voting in some way
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@i-juggler ·
$0.41
>FYI - on Friday I'll have enough SP back to counter all of your purchased hypocritical votes.

Some people fight for noble causes, to bring the Earth and its people to a better place. I see you have other priorities.

I find it genuinely interesting that you find it rude to downvote bots. I'm serious about being genuine: understanding people's value systems is something I really like delving into. What is the source of this perceived rudeness? Basically, I'm asking you directly: why are you spending your most precious resource, time, doing something that counter-acts collective goodness? That doesn't seem like something a rational person does. What do you gain/what do you think you're accomplishing? Why does berniesanders wake up in the morning/what purpose do you want your hands to work towards?

We have actually fostered a relationship with several of the bot owners, so it's not like we're taking what we can get and snubbing the owners. Likewise, we are using this to step into the forefront of Steemit to both grow the entire platform and spread the wealth with our Steemit guild; a process which we have been open and transparent about - even communicating with the developers of the site about the state, growth, and foreseeable problems of the site. From a position of knowledge, I find it very difficult for you to posit a counter argument that does not simultaneously align with the stagnation of the systemic growth of Steemit.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@earthnation · (edited)
@berniesanders @inquiringtimes @surfermarly @fulltimegeek @sneak @noisy and everyone else who is reacting negativley to this posting.... 

If you want to see the steem community grow.... we recommend trying positive communication instead of immidiantly smashing down on what you don't like. 

There is no guide to steem. No list of steem community protocols we've been able to find. No way for us to know what to and not to do.... So we're doing the best we can to figure out how to be here in a good way. 

In an move to share an interesting conversation and offer help and thoughts towards solutions for steem.... You have met us with a lot of hate. 

In the future, we invite you to be kinder to new people coming into this community offering to share. It will go a very long way towards the growth of this community. 

So. Is there a cut off limit of what is too much to boost? At what point can we use mercenary upvote bots without attracting your wrath? If any of our posts hit trending now, are you going to shoot us down? 

What will it take for us to be in peace? 

@inquiringtimes we changed the steemfest tag since you mentioned that this post is considering spam in that catagory. We'd like you to know we never post plagurized information. We're interested in what else you think were doing that is considered spam by the steem community? 

In General.... we want to be on good terms with all of the steem community. If you will just communicate with us how to best do that, that would be great! Please, consider writing a guide on standard community protocols and make that guide available to everyone so new people coming into steem don't have to learn "The hard way" by having all this emotional reactions/downvotes sent their way.
👍  , ,
👎  
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vote details (4)
@winstonwolfe ·
$0.06
>If you want to see the steem community grow.... we recommend trying positive communication instead of immidiantly smashing down on what you don't like.

In other words, drink, be merry, and nevermind the man behind the curtain? Just be blissfully ignorant while you scam on?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@acidyo ·
$0.88
>If you want to see the steem community grow...

Just stop that. Our community is growing at a healthy pace. We don't need the help of phonies like you and no we are not going to tell you how to maximize your vote buying abuse without getting flags.
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vote details (6)
@berniesanders ·
**Can you tell us about this aspect of your scheme?**

 ✅  Earn 50$ worth of steem power to get started with by joining the EN Steem Team. By joining you also benefit from the advanced academy, our trending post boosting service, upvotes, resteems and support from our entire community (including the EN whale).

✅  It costs 100$ worth of Keys or Keys Credits to join the Steem Guild. Send the Keys to avatareducationteam@gmail.com and fill out the form below to get started.

Sounds pretty suspicious to me...  

**I'm really glad you paid to have this post put on the trending page.  It's getting a lot of great visibility.**
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vote details (37)
@earthnation ·
@berniesanders @inquiringtimes @surfermarly @fulltimegeek @sneak @noisy and the rest of steem.

We love you! We're sorry if our tactics have hurt you, offended you, pissed you off or created other negative reactions. 

We don't mean to abuse upvote bots or spam steem. Were the new kid on the block trying to figure out how it all works. Based on what seems to be popular consensus we have decided to stop using up-vote bots the way we have. 

We want to engage with you and all of steem in a good way. By adding valueable content and inspiring dialogue. In the future, please be kind with us if we seem to be overstepping any invisible rules (like using up-vote bots too much).
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vote details (13)
@earthnation ·
We'd like to point out that this post has become one of the biggest dialogues on Steemit. We hope some of you appreciate this medium for conversation about the future of Steem. 

Congradulations to @dj123 for providing the most in depth and well thought out responses as to why the steem economic system is more bulletproof then we originally thought. It will go a long way for Steem to make this information (and other pieces of key informatiom, like how pissed off some people get when you use upvote bots too much) more readily and easily available. 

We will be compiling all of this information and more into our Free Steem Academy. 

To read what dj123 wrote go to https://steemit.com/steemit/@earthnation/introducing-the-steem-defender-bot-designed-to-protect-steem-from-economic-collapse-and-support-minnow-growth-article#@dj123/re-dj123-re-josephlwiess-re-earthnation-re-josephlwiess-re-earthnation-introducing-the-steem-defender-bot-designed-to-protect-steem-from-economic-collapse-and-support-minnow-growth-article-20171114t145201583z
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vote details (10)
@shello ·
$2.72
![SAME COMMENT 42 TIMES.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmddvFjDadusfgi6Ugcj4Kb1PqGYFzGzSNJyYm9AsG3WTf/SAME%20COMMENT%2042%20TIMES.png)


1- The same comment 42 TIMES IN A ROW. Changing only the name of who it is addressed to. Commented to Steemian's blogs, without a genuine comment or concern for original topic matter.

![spam comment in question.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmNkPAv2jcwEpNUE6syc8JDb2fvQWfgpnJD3GC6ttxfNS9/spam%20comment%20in%20question.png)

>"Were the new kid on the block trying to figure out how it all works."

2- How do you fix something you don't understand? This is the comment in question.

![which one is it.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmTg3ZbpTc4JrEn9YEqmGEMAq5ZqzJZn6T3bNyaKbNupCU/which%20one%20is%20it.png)

3- DID YOU KNOW... That Earthnation DOUBLED their "following" in two weeks? 20 Million people.

![this is NOT you.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmV1Jxvc3cdhpio4kppTTTDD2r45hbfuS9U4EcWxnztJba/this%20is%20NOT%20you.png)

4- On top of Facebook, Weebly, their original site linked below, they rebranded! But New Earth Nation is NOT them, only earth nation. BUT! They made a community on this site, where anyone can make a group. Like their name? This is the list of who they are trying to "partner" with.

Not them.

https://newearthnation.org/

This is them.

http://tribeofawakeningsovereignty.com/manifesto/action-plan/

![want to partner.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmTuG2kgweZCBZfzzisBNyMP1UVXam8Pi4ynGEWBR2TwYt/want%20to%20partner.png)

5- Why so secret? Earth nation wants to reach out privately to anyone they think has authority to become partners in their plan. Vote for Vote, Follow for Follow dear. Steemit is decentralized, nobody has supreme ruling over others you know? 

>"Accounts that consistently either like their own content, and/or continuously like the content of the same accounts, and/or continuously like the content of accounts that have been associated as “bots” will lose influence every week."

Stop people from voting the same authors? GOLD.

![DQmaD4z4mfxRwNHbuyTjkb73t4N1W7etZZxWXnda8QpGVKb_1680x8400.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmUysZf4GDab2gpYyRhTb4qKiXg7cJm5gpNwPbf9Cb4MGS/DQmaD4z4mfxRwNHbuyTjkb73t4N1W7etZZxWXnda8QpGVKb_1680x8400.png)

6- Screencap I have taken of the original article for written here:

https://asc.ai/2017/09/06/return-to-love/

Then a few months later copy/pasted here word for word:

https://steemit.com/love/@earthnation/what-is-love

Don't forget to buy all the upgoats for it! Only one article, nobody will notice! The others did check out, so why would people check all the articles?

![how come no cite.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmNzNykhBcBRF3tVaRNmUwuj3jQhFbsabSpNoZkXimTtsJ/how%20come%20no%20cite.png)

7- Citing articles is important, but there is no love for the original photographers or artists, whatsoever.

![no cite 2.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmVD4qmZHSdxQQwV4U8v3DAwrh8AE8u9Tcv4ZVv4CMq8vz/no%20cite%202.png)

DID YOU KNOW? That you can check to see if an image is original or not?

https://www.tineye.com/

![no cite 3.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmQnFnyrFo5jyhAaLBW2SgM1hVN9Mdk1TR1XwqtXAi5bEN/no%20cite%203.png)

Surely, no one will check this out, and realize that we didn't credit anyone for these.

![no cite 4.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdrGCLgxF8TLk4Yfa73NN6DMA8tBLRfwkpqKGYCrAQJf7/no%20cite%204.png)

We used to cite, but it's not important for images anymore. Everyone forgot.

![no cite 5.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmRFCGbXGT7Dcdwu9hTV6zSfZtZevFA1BJYcbWVvCYwniS/no%20cite%205.png)

---

>"There is no guide to steem. No list of steem community protocols we've been able to find."

If you actually use the site, and browse for a little while, you will find many guides to help new people on Steemit. They are everywhere. This is one of my favorite ones, please enjoy c:

https://steemit.com/welcome/@inquiringtimes/333-welcome-to-steemit-333

8- DID YOU KNOW? That we can freely see all of everyone's interactions with each other on Steemit? True transparency! So, we know that you only vote and comment those who support your agenda. You don't care about any other people and their own projects,  but yourselves and what you are trying to achieve. 

https://steemd.com/@earthnation

Why should we care about you?

What in the actual Christopher Columbus are you guys trying to pull? 

9- The "invisible rules" you may be concerned about is called "etiquette", and "culture", you should look up what those words mean. You don't just go to another place, and try to take over. You are not the solution to everyone's problems, especially if you don't even know what they are.

All you had to do was apologize, and try to fix your own problems instead of trying to justify every single thing you do, people are people. 

We don't need you guys to "help us grow Steemit", actually- I don't think we need you guys at all.
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vote details (26)
@mooncryption · (edited)
$0.05
Thanks @shello for bringing these points up. 

Unfortunately, in my view, @earthnation is no different from the spam bots and follow-for-follow beggars I see every day at Steemit and Steemit Chat. Those bots make no effort to conceal themselves, and their true intent is obvious at first glance.

But with @earthnation, things have been concealed with some kind of "effort" to help grow Steem, or spread Steem to some 20 million "followers". It's a problem that these kinds of pleas can get so many votes to boost them onto the Trending page.

@berniesanders, when you're through with @earthnation, thank you for paying attention and taking action when it matters.
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vote details (5)
@mooncryption ·
$0.05
> Here in the Earth Nation, we REALLY LOVE STEEM.

Sorry for this extra comment, but I just noticed that @earthnation is currently _powering down._ Pretty contrary to their 'we love steem' attitude. But then again, I guess their spam, abuse towards voting bots, and reward pool destruction don't help their 'we love steem' views as well.

Oh well.
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vote details (5)
@marcovanhassel ·
Just wanted to let you know I can't wait until you start the destruction. Happy to see that somebody is stepping up to take care of business. Good luck come friday 🤘
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@btcvenom ·
$0.28
I am glad you are going to take action against this page. They even had the cheek to reach out to my project @paywithsteem asking for a partnership and asked me to send them SBD for it!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@anarcho-andrei ·
Get 'em!  I don't have much else to contribute, since it's already been said, but this needs to be nuked into oblivion.  *They* need to be nuked into oblivion.
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@naya001 ·
Nope!!! For months
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@dakini5d ·
$0.10
Thanks earthnation, as a minnow, I am always thrilled to see the brilliance people are using to develop Steemit!  upvoted and following
@dakini5d
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vote details (2)
@mosarraf ·
Give me vote and comment and follow i am back vote,comment, follow you https://steemit.com/steemit/@mosarraf/how-to-increase-steemit-followers-2017-or-earn-money-with-steemit-2018
👎  
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vote details (1)
@bashadow ·
$0.31
I have a question. Why is it on the few post of yours that I have read, there is always something in it about <b><i>"Redistributing Wealth"</i></b>, or <b><i>"telling people who they can and cannot vote for"</i></b>. 

> <i>"Accounts that consistently either like their own content, and/or continuously like the content of the same accounts"</i> 

If I want to vote for the same people over and over and over again, that is my business not yours or anyone else's business.

Oh and that 700 million powered up Steem - - - You do realize that once powered up it takes quite a bit of time to power down.  

> If you agree with our solutions, please show us your support!

I don't, and won't.
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vote details (6)
@jeff-kubitz ·
$0.07
Interesting scenario but the problem is there really isn't enough steem for sale for a hedge fund to do that.  Plus, if steem went up to $7 a lot folks would sell and be happy @earthnation.  You might be right though.  Still one thing about the influence if people like me with a 14.4k modem half the time have a hard time voting on many posts.  There are a lot of people like this throughout the world and on Steemit.   They are excellent posters, trying make money and build Steemit with excellent quality posts but...influence?
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vote details (3)
@mammasitta ·
$0.05
I resteemed for visibility and further discussion. Not sure if this could be a valid solution.
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vote details (3)
@achrafbenz ·
Great informative post
Please up-vote and follow me @earthnation
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@hatimbenya ·
I simply like your information @earthnation 
Please up-vote and follow me @hatimbenya
Thank you
👍  
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vote details (1)
@williambailey ·
I like the idea to reward the upvotes for good contents. It fits with the main vision.
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@josephlwiess ·
$0.07
I have a problem with this.  You are telling me that I can't vote for the people I like.  I have several people that I like to vote on, mainly because the quality of their content is consistently excellent.  
In my opinion, what you are suggesting is tyranny.  If I want my influence to increase and be able to vote, I would have to vote for people that have content that is no better than cat posters on Facebook.  
If you really want to fix the problem, then get rid of the damn bots and make it impossible for bots to work.  Make it to where you have to use your own votes and power to actually vote on good content.  

Here's how this works.  I vote for things that I like, and that's why I don't vote for all the bitcoin, litecoin, etc posts and vote on art, science, creative writing posts.  
I'm sorry, @earthnation, but I really don't like your idea.  I think it's a makeshift patch at best.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@earthnation · (edited)
If you have a better solution.....
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@josephlwiess ·
$0.07
I'm just a steam user, and I enjoy this platform, and while I have a problem with it from time to time, but I'm not about to go the extreme of punishing people for liking what they like.  
I still believe it's tyranny to tell someone what they have to like and how they have to like it.  
In my opinion, banning bots would be a good place to start.  In addition, if people treated this like a content site, not an investment center, it would also help.  
But people will be people and people with money will always seek a way to make more money.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@rocking-dave ·
$0.30
I'm not sure I can properly assess the scenario you are talking about, not the solution you are suggesting. To gain my support for something like this you'd have not only to convince me that you are correct, but also to somehow gain my trust.

I actually decided to drop a line to point out that you asked for sources for the people disagreeing with you while you didn't cite any yourself.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (14)
@geekpowered ·
$0.22
While I agree that there should be a system where voting is weighted based upon activity, I don't necessarily agree with your specific solution. You have raised some interesting issues. It should be discussed and debated by the community and the developers.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@jaki01 ·
$3.30
Very interesting article! I had a similar idea to make self and circle voting less attractive <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@jaki01/ideas-for-more-justice-on-steemit-ideen-fuer-mehr-gerechtigkeit-auf-steemit">by implementing diminishing returns</a>, but your post opens a completely new perspective on the possible scenario of hedge-fund attacks.
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@earthnation ·
$0.46
Super smart solution @jaki01
👍  
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vote details (1)
@minnowpowerup ·
@MinnowPowerUp summary from November 14, 2017
You have collected your daily Power Up! This post received an upvote worth of 0.62$.
[Learn how to Power Up Smart here!](https://steemit.com/steemit/@minnowpowerup/introducing-minnowpowerup-a-paid-subscription-based-daily-upvote-bot-that-draws-its-power-from-a-delegation-pool)
https://steemitimages.com/DQmQxdQrRLJQjMQFKJgGLQT8tnub5SogfuvUNmkmNyqLrbd/logo.png
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@aasik ·
Nice post...
bcak me vote and Commenta...
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@aasik ·
Nice post...
bcak me vote and Comments...
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@pandorasbox ·
$0.43
You raise valid points with regards to risks of corporate takeover and abuse. If it is possible, then one day some faction _will_ do it. 

I am hesitant to _completely_ get behind this idea, although I _do_ like the principles behind it. What makes me hesitant is that it _further_ confuses the already confusing Steemit platform. I immediately wonder if I'll end up being 'punished' by the system if I end up interacting with the same people too often. It seems like it's just another fine line to learn to tread on, which makes the learning curve potentially even steeper.

To solve this I would recommend having a fairly large 'grey' area in between good and bad influence, and keep some leniency in there. Focus the actual punishments on those who really abuse, but keep in mind that most n00bs make mistakes that they may end up getting punished for. An example is the cheetah bot or Steemcleaners, which frequently visit all kinds of posts which are 'maybe' abuse but most likely n00bs not knowing what the etiquette and way to go is. We need to be soft on the n00bs, and keep in mind that those with super low steem power don't really have any ability to game the system, and perhaps they shouldn't be punished as severely as whale accounts doing something abusive. Maybe the stricter rules start at a certain SP level, or something like it.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@contentking ·
$0.13
That's a really scary scenario. I'll admit I don't know near enough about how the Steem blockchain works to know whether or not something like that would ever be possible.

I just love the concept of being able to get paid for putting together content.

I know that SteemIt has changed a ton since I joined last October.  I don't know if it's become exactly what the founders intended, or something else entirely.

One thing I will say is that it's an exciting ride, and there are lots of cool people here.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@reactivator ·
What is my path? Send me the SBD and vote for me.
👍  
👎  
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vote details (2)
@skycranehandwork ·
$0.42
I am pretty sure this is already happening.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@earthnation ·
We think so too @skycranehandwork and it will only keep happening in greater scale unless its fixed.
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@tomj ·
$0.10
I really love SteemIt and the community as well.  I agree that this market can be manipulated, but at the same time, all markets can be.  There are some unknown variables in this situation that is not being accounted for, but it does definitely show some vulnerabilities!
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@rocketsteem ·
$0.10
I love the SteemIt community, I just want to be sure that the community is secure for years to come!
👍  
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@joele ·
Increasing the price of Steem is much better, why suppressed it.
We should invite more hedge funders in that case.
👍  
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@mhsiamkhan ·
tnx
👍  
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@mhsiamkhan ·
tnx
👍  
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@kaleem345 ·
$0.08
Nice dear
👍  ,
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@akilasultana373 ·
$0.08
May be this is already happening.
👍  ,
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@beingsamadhi ·
$0.23
Excellent work and solutions to prevent corporate takeover
👍  ,
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@geekgirl · (edited)
$14.77
I think your argument is flawed from the start. If any hedge-fund decides to go in, you would see many more follow the suit. So a single entity wouldn't be able to do the damage, because now they have to compete against other hedge-funds and financial entities. 

Besides the fact that, it would be much more beneficial for any financial entity to implement win-win strategy, and find out being in on Steem would give them financial advantage over others.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (14)
@sneak ·
$0.90
> I think your argument is flawed from the start. If any hedge-fund decides to go in, you would see many more follow the suit.

Not only that, but as you buy up the STEEM order books around the internet, the price will rise very, very quickly and you reach diminishing returns, like any other thing traded on open markets.  This whole post is fantasy.
👍  , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (9)
@earthnation · (edited)
@geekgirl @sneak its apparent you missed the entire point of this dialogue. It's not an arguement, its a conversation. A thread to discuss various possibilities and to reach a higher point of community clarity on how steem and all associated mechanisms REALLY works. Since well sourced information on it seems difficult to find.
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@dbzfan4awhile ·
$0.75
The problem here is that you essentially imply that STEEM is doomed b/c this can happen; however, this same scheme could be done in so many other markets. What I've seen is that if they were to buy up all the STEEM (or fill-in-the-blank) then there would be none available for anyone else to buy and/or it would be too expensive to sell. Besides, the fact is that probably 75% of STEEM owners won't specifically sell their STEEM (I know it's a grand exaggeration, but if anyone caught wind of such a buy-up then more would HOLD). That's my 2-cents-worth at least.
👍  , , ,
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@inquiringtimes · (edited)
$0.05
so... you came up about $1000 in 22 days by paying for votes... did you really think that's the way this is supposed to work?  and now you power down?  because we called you out on your behavior?  but, you really love steem?
👍  , ,
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@mooncryption ·
$0.18
Thanks @geekgirl for bringing this up. Not only is your argument flawed, @earthnation, but you're also completely skewed morally.

As @inquiringtimes and many others brought up, you summoned every upvote bot there is and used them to push your undeserving content to the top of Trending. And _then_, you flagged the comments these bots sent to your post.

After paying for the upvotes, why would you _ever_ flag their comments? This is one of many reasons I'm hoping bot owners will take the time to add a blacklist of people who do abusive things like this.

Please stop abusing the rewards pool and promoting scammy content that frankly, will never work.

Thank you,
a concerned Steemian.
👍  , , , , ,
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@schufa ·
$0.08
Fork it! 🙂
👍  
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@alamin007 ·
nice post
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@nasirlove ·
hy
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@kawsar11 ·
What happens, if someone hacks into the Data Service ? And what is the definition of engagement ? How would you define that ?
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@earthnation ·
we discussed this earlier in the thread @kawsar11
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@skrulle ·
uhm waow 0.o
👍  
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@ruzindana ·
The post has been liked by bots which apparently isn't bad like you say "if used correctly."
I up voted because some thought was been put into a solution.
But describing bot usage as right and wrong just from one side of things will not be the answer.
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@sakilanwar20 ·
VERY HI REGULATION PICTURE.
👍  
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@andrew009s ·
thank for your information ...
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@abdulsalim ·
nice good follow me and vote me
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@ghorardim ·
I think your argument is flawed from the start. If any hedge-fund decides to go in, you would see many more follow the suit. So a single entity would be able to do the damage, because now they have to compete against other hedge-funds and financial entities.

Besides the fact that, it would be much more beneficial for any financial entity to implement win-win strategy, and find out being in on Steem would give them financial advantage over others.
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@yeasin111 ·
nice
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@steem111 ·
Hope this to be secure enough
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@surfermarly · (edited)
$0.07
> We perceive that Steem has a massive weakness that will destroy the value of Steem on the open market and make Steem almost impossible to sell, even for a single penny.

Correct. Vote buying is the no. 1 weak point and value killer on this platform and you perfectly demonstrated that with your own post. 

EDIT:
> If Steem wishes to continue on this path of destruction, we will be creating another very similar platform based on the Steem Blockchain that integrates our solution or another even better solution.

People like you who promote "minnow support" while they buy attention for themselves are the ones that are destroying this eco-system. Why did you flag the bots that you paid (at the end of this thread)? To hide that your payout was not earned but purchased? Why don't you practice real minnow support instead of just talking about it? 

> For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency. When the Price of Steem goes from 0.84 to 7 dollars per Steem because of this move, that 100M worth of Steem is now worth 700M. 

Where do you live? In La-La-Land?
👍  
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@earthnation ·
Hi @surfermarly we covered these points earlier in the conversation thread.
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@morwhale ·
This post received a 4% upvote from @morwhale team thanks to @earthnation! For more information, [click here](https://steemit.com/@morwhale)! , [TeamMorocco](https://steemit.com/@teammorocco)! . 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@riorinaldy ·
Oh nice blog man nice very nice yeah
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@krishnabhusal ·
Follow me and I will follow you back @krishnabhusal
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@sany05 ·
oh.great for us
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@andrejprochazka ·
Very interesnting.
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@erh.germany ·
$0.38
you get my upvote because you are raising a debate and seem to be open to discussion and objections. As this is a proposal it should be treated as one and I think peoples answers will give you the feedback you ask for. This altogether should be welcome from all who are interested. 

For me this steemit cosmos is like real life starting a community from scratch in the Wild West. Democracy is not easy to take. It has aspects of regulation as well as aspects of freedom. Those are very sensitive and always on the brink of becoming out of balance. 

What happens here in my view is that people struggle for regulation as much as for freedom. Exactly as in real daily life only on a greater scheme. Here it boils down and in particular the ugliness as well as the beauty can be seen. 

This is the great search politicians and economic members and all the rest are having great difficulties with. Once a system is too much restrictive it fails and if it is unleashed, it fails, too. 

What to do? I have no idea other than that ethics have to be put in perspective as the ground base of human action and interaction - we already have guidelines and people were telling us for thousands of years. Technical solutions alone will never bring a system to a flourishing life in the meaning of cooperation. Technical solutions have to go hand in hand with manual observation and enough freedom.  

In the end no one will be truly freed from doing handy work. I myself have thought of auto-voting for those I prefer to read. I cannot have a daily overview of the people I would like to support. It is in the human core that you want to be loyal to the ones you got to know first und who treated you well. So you vote them even though the content was not very qualifiying itself. 

I guess you actually know where your weakness lies as well where you can gain strength. To go outside and check your concept I call good.

I must admit that I feel backed away when I hear those big numbers like 20+ Million. I never feel attracted to them. 

My position is easy. I have nothing to lose. My "minnowness" makes me quite uninteresting and if this whole thing would blow up I wouldn't care that much. Even though I put hell lot of effort in here. 

It is a very personal decision - If I have a lot to lose then I would probably care much - about money, of course. So when does one reach the point where he or she doesn't care about money as well? I do not want to see a "fast grow" - but I do not know if it is a relatively single opinion here. 

Last words: When I see a system fails for ethical behavior is only wanted from others but not my very first own priority in every interaction, I think it would be time for me to move on and not bothering anyone with my "opinion".
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@ilyastarar ·
$0.03
Let me share where I see the flaw.

>For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency. They then place another 50M into Buy Order for more Steem. When the Price of Steem goes from 0.84 to 7 dollars per Steem because of this move, that 100M worth of Steem is now worth 700M. The Hedge Fund then uses this 700M worth of Steem to POWER UP.

While temporarily that 100 M Steem would be worth $700 M, it does not mean that the hedge fund has 700 M Steem Power.

For general understanding, here's one simple equation we are forgetting may be.

* 1 Steem Power = 1 Steem frozen until powered down.
* So, 100 M Steem = 100 M SP

The whole argument is based on the assumption that the fund has 700 M SP, which it does not have.

**Secondly**, Steem is a blockchain and nothing of that magnitude can stay hidden. Anyone with programming, coding knowledge can retrieve data from the blockchain (it's open source) and display. I know a friend who used to list self-voters as per number of self votes, their worth, frequency etc.

**Thirdly**, who are you kidding? A bot upvotes your post and then the comment from that bot is upvoted by the same bot sponsored by another account named similar to the bot that upvoted in the first place. Seems like someone has a farm in place.

 ![image](https://img.esteem.ws/qc2ff0jbqe.jpg)

### STEEMIANS, HELP MY COMMENT RISE ABOVE THE BOT COMMENT

> WHICH I THINK IS BEING PROMOTED THROUGH THIS POST IN DISGUISE OF STEEMIT's BETTERMENT.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@earthnation ·
Hi @ilyastarar. Our understanding is that when steem is converted into steem power, its converted at the rate at which steem is worth. 

Meaning, 1 steem turns into .84 steem power if steem is worth 84 cents. 

Also meaning, 1 steem turns into 7 steem power if steem is worth 7 dollars.
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@ilyastarar ·
Hi @earthnation, 

Then please be informed that your understanding flawed as I pointed out. SP is basically frozen Steem and its value is same as that of Steem because **it is Steem**.

 ![image](https://img.esteem.ws/3r30wnsryl.jpg)

If you look at the image above, you will see that I bought 5.960 Steem by paying 6 Steem Dollars. Then, the amount of Steem I received was immediately powered up. Exact same amount of SP I got.

Hope you understand. I am a minnow but I did put in a lot of effort to learn about Steemit.
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@nasimmd ·
we are follow me.i well follow you.
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@gotgame ·
$0.13
I'd suggest you try both solutions. First, we have to maintain the steemit platform and keep it from any form of discrepancies.

And it'd be nice to have another steemit like application/platform running on the steem blockchain
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@arcange ·
Congratulations @earthnation!
Your post was mentioned in the [hit parade](https://steemit.com/hit-parade/@arcange/daily-hit-parade-20171113) in the following categories:

* Upvotes - Ranked 5 with 613 upvotes
* Comments - Ranked 5 with 166 comments
* Pending payout - Ranked 5 with $ 181,71
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@ak47balasbolin ·
Amazing
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@ak47balasbolin ·
Amazing
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@sneak ·
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmDVHs-juPo
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@sneak ·
$3.32
Downvoting for significant disagreement with rewards.  Nonsensical FUD does not warrant the pending reward.
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vote details (12)
@surfermarly ·
$0.07
Awesome! I was waiting for someone with power to stand up here and stop it.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@acidyo ·
$1.11
Where are these 20+ million followers? If you really had that much followers your website would be used even a little bit, not look like this: 

![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmXXNNbtASpnwd7vzCgvqS37SutvWk2aYcEiuE9GP31dkQ/image.png)
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vote details (13)
@ats-david ·
$0.18
They seem to be about as "popular" as @matttrainer.
👍  
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@surfermarly ·
Haha, nice comparison :-)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@earthnation ·
The followers in our extended media alliance are part of the Concious Media Alliance. https://www.consciousmediacoalition.com/ Most notable is collective evolution with more then 5 million followers. https://www.facebook.com/collectiveevolutionpage
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@igster ·
I have an easy fix to your doomsday scenario, first, stop powering down or hedge fund will get them. Then buy some liquid Steem, there are many of us doing so and I'm sure many are planning to hold them for a long time. Second, tell your 5 million followers to get some too. If each of them would buy only 2, it would instantly be 10 million Steem off the market and out of reach for any single hedge fund. 

That's a fix to your problem you should be advocating and actually is doable.  So let's try that.
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@jrcornel · (edited)
$0.13
If something like this was attempted, and the price started to rise I think we would see many more people (and possibly funds) flock to steem and buy steem as well, which would further drive up prices which would attract more attention and more people would buy etc etc etc. I get what you are trying to say here, but I don't think the scenario would work out quite how you are portraying it to in your example. 

The other thing to keep in mind, once that hedge fund has $700 milllion powered up and can make $25 million per year, they have to keep that 700 million powered up to keep making that amount. Them dumping all that steem on the market couldn't happen for at least 3.5 years for them to even make a tiny profit on their original $84 million invested...

Unless the plan was simply to run the price up and then cash out based on the capital appreciation, but that is more along the lines of a simple pump and dump and very different than what you are talking about here in regards to powering up that $700 million...
👍  
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vote details (1)
@personz ·
$0.05
> They then power up a network of like-bots to automatically engage with AI spun content to turn Steem into an automated ROI farm.

I hate to break it to you but this is already the MO of many on Steemit 😂  You included by the looks of all the vote services you're using.

I don't buy it, I don't think it's as vulnerable to that kind of attack, there's way too many variables for your scenario to play out and also it looks like your math is off.

💩
👍  
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vote details (1)
@fredrikaa ·
$1.32
My thoughts, having read and examined your post closely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
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vote details (8)
@surfermarly ·
Haha, you summed it up perfectly! :-)
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@ats-david · (edited)
$12.15
>A hedge-fund with access to billions of dollars purchases all of the Steem available on the open markets.

Why would and how could a hedge fund do this in an "open market?" 

>That Hedge-Fund then places buy orders for Steem at a higher rate, temporarily artificially increasing the price of Steem to 7 dollars per.

That wouldn't increase the price. They would actually have to buy the STEEM...from themselves, since they bought it all already, right? Or are they buying it from other people who are selling the STEEM at the new, higher price?

>They then power up a network of like-bots to automatically engage with AI spun content to turn Steem into an automated ROI farm.

Assuming they could pull off the previous purchases, this would almost instantly create a pretty horrid environment and would quickly cause many SP holders or STEEM traders to sell their STEEM, causing prices to fall precipitously as people look to exit at the then extremely overvalued asset price. 

>They start dumping massive amounts of Steem on the market without increasing the demand for Steem or adding any value to the user/content base.

Yes, as will everyone else. 

>They start making 70,000 dollars worth of Steem every single day by doing this. 2.1M a month. 25.55M dollars a year.

This wouldn't happen if they and everyone else were dumping STEEM. They cannot earn those projected numbers if the price is tanking.

>Based on this example, it would only take a 150 million dollar initial investment to start producing almost 25 million dollars a year.

This would never happen. Your scenario is entirely unrealistic, as it is based on a complete misunderstanding of markets, economics, behavior, how the Steem blockchain works, and...*math.*

>We know of Hedge-Funds that are just waiting for the Steem User Base to grow larger so they can safely pull this move off and milk the Steem economy for as much as they can...

Please name them.

>Accounts that consistently either like their own content, and/or continuously like the content of the same accounts, and/or continuously like the content of accounts that have been associated as “bots” will lose influence every week.

So, you can't follow and support people that you like...on social media? What about friends or family members? Are we to ignore their posts and not support them?

Why do you think that *you* should be the arbiter of what is good or bad for social media and for this platform in particular? How does this factor into *decentralization?*

>For users that do not want to spend a lot of time finding new authors, we strongly recommend giving some of your weekly votes towards a curation service that will automatically use your votes to find new users with the best content.

The "best content" is subjective. How does delegating your votes to a "curation service" improve content discovery and filtering? Are you aware of the history of "curation services" on this platform, or is this just another assumption based on zero facts of social media behavior and, in particular, behavior on interfaces using the Steem blockchain?

>If Steem wishes to continue on this path of destruction, we will be creating another very similar platform based on the Steem Blockchain that integrates our solution or another even better solution.

OK...bye. You're free to create whatever you want. If you think your centralized and authoritarian social media platform will work better, go build it and prove mankind wrong.  

Since the hedge fund scenario would never actually happen, your "solutions" are not needed. You're offering solutions for problems that will never exist. And I have a feeling that this post is designed simply to attempt to scare people into unwittingly supporting your cause. And from the looks of it, your cause appears to be some sort of socialist/UBI distribution scheme. Good luck finding much support for that here...and actually pulling it off successfully *anywhere.*
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vote details (24)
@winstonwolfe ·
And before @earthnation jumps on here to say how negative you're being, I'd like to point out that @ats.david's reply here is probably the most intelligent one on the page right now.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@earthnation ·
Clearly @ats-david you do not understand how the currency exchange market works. 

We don't have enough time in the day to educate people who don't want to be educated.
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vote details (8)
@ats-david ·
$3.86
>Clearly @ats-david you do not understand how the currency exchange market works.

I literally just explained to you how your scenario could not work in the "open markets." And your response is that I don't understand how currency exchange markets work. 

This is one of those times where you shouldn't speak unless you actually know what you're talking about or who you're talking to. I have a very intimate understanding of how currency and asset markets work. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated very clearly that you don't even comprehend how buy orders work, how asset prices on exchanges fluctuate according to buy/sell orders and executions, and have no clue about the fundamentals of the Steem blockchain. 

If you're going to run your filthy socialist mouths on a new platform, at least take a minute to get to know who the people are that you're trying to dismiss or denigrate. But if you insist on continuing with your piss-poor behavior and ignorant posts, I'll be more than happy to downvote you and them, as will *many* other users.

Maybe try a new tactic? This one appears to not be working very well, based on the comments from quite a few high-rep, long-time users.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (12)
@igster · (edited)
Why wouldn't you want to educate people? I'd be interested to hear. You could make one post about this topic and use it to educate thousands of people because it will always be here, on the blockchain. And please, no need to simplify. I think that hurts your case.
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@tuck-fheman · (edited)
$1.53
<blockquote>We don't have enough time in the day to educate people who don't want to be educated.</blockquote>

What you've said is, ***YOU*** don't have time in your day to bother educating ***yourself*** and want to continue thinking what you're currently thinking, no matter what anyone else says.

On top of that, you've stated that you want to push your, clearly demonstrated by your own words, closed minded view onto others who will only accept your closed minded view.

What you're doing is not "education" it's indoctrination into your belief system, for you do not have time for any opinions that differ from your current opinions.

On top of all that, you come here using doom scenario hype marketing projecting yourself as the saviour with all the answers, yet you appear apprehensive when it comes to interacting with differing opinions or implications that what you're doing is  frowned upon here.

You use an excuse of not knowing how the platform works, yet you've devised a plan for Steemit in great detail, using tools many of us, including myself, have never heard of or used in our time on this platform, thereby indicating that you and your team have put a great deal of time and research into exactly how this platform not only works, but how it can be exploited for gains.
👍  , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (11)
@igster ·
> For simplicities sake, we did not further complicate this example with details such as the one you mentioned.

It feels like the whole scenario that they've come up with in their minds has faced a lot of simplifying and by doing so has ended up with a product of fantasy that has nothing to do with reality anymore. But the post stirred some conversation and that's always good.
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@ats-david ·
>But the post stirred some conversation....

Yes, mostly about their ignorance of how markets work and why their solution is a non-starter. But I guess negative attention is still attention, right?
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@uwelang ·
Not that my opinion would be of any relevance here - but just as an announcement I am starting a series on how to be successful on Steemit - Edition 1 is about to start probably this week, to be defined. You might be featured in edition #6 - more on that revealed soon!  Good luck until then - we will watch your improvement
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@jacobtothe ·
Your hypothetical scenario betrays your ignorance of basic economics, and your hypothetical solution is totalitarianism. If I want to consistently support a handful of writers who I believe produce quality original content, that is none of your business whatsoever.
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@parraccianni ·
I very much agree with you, brother. Keep going that you are doing a great job, I love Earth Nation, I REALLY LIKE STEEM.
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@godcomplex ·
Steemit is collapsing because the community is breaking down. The community is breaking down because Steemit is too centralized and frankly the experiment didn't work. The experiment isn't likely to work unless dramatic changes are made not cosmetic.

Why should anyone want to buy and hold Steem right now?
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@minnowpond ·
@steem-marketing has voted on behalf of @minnowpond. 
If you would like to recieve upvotes from minnowponds team on all your posts, simply FOLLOW @minnowpond. 

                To receive an upvote send 0.25 SBD to @minnowpond with your posts url as the memo
                To receive an reSteem send 0.75 SBD to @minnowpond with your posts url as the memo
                To receive an upvote and a reSteem send 1.00SBD to @minnowpond with your posts url as the memo
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@coincheckup ·
### Interesting blog. 

<hr>

https://nexibeo.com/coincheckup/logo-signature.png

[Visit CoinCheckup.com](https://coincheckup.com/?utm_source=comments_on_blogs&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=Steemit_comments_on_blogs) | [SteemIT - Daily Technical Analysis](https://steemit.com/@coincheckup)
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@steemasia ·
this is new... nice initiative!
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@kawsar11 ·
I think your reason is flawed from the start. If any hedge-fund decides to go in, you would see many more follow the law. So a single entity wouldn't be able to do the loss, because now they have to compete against other hedge-funds and financial entities.
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@kawsar11 ·
nice post
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@possiblememes ·
Steem has so many levels of understanding that for a newly minted minnow swimming in an ocean seemingly filled with tiger sharks and the occasional dolphin whale that who knows what the meaning of anything is I look forward to knowing more about this as time goes on and I read more posts and find myself more deeply down the whirlpool of the rabbit hole ☺
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