... by rok-sivante

View this thread on steempeak.com
· @rok-sivante · (edited)
$6,962.58
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vote details (430)
@crazysmile ·
good
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@ajayseervi ·
Nice post keep it up i was planning to create but good that u created it :)
upvoted it
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@nippel66 ·
Yes it is cool.
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@the-future · (edited)
That's the beauty here on Steemit.You can choose which post to upvote or downvote, nobody is telling you to do that. Who is using wisefully  they're votes will have more to win on long term.
I don't have much Steem Power,so I can't upvote everyone like someone else is doing,I choose you because I really enjoyed what you are writing and is very helpfully.
I hope one day to make posts like you do... and when I leave your post I feel like I learn something. That's the real purpose.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@cryptobarry ·
$0.28
Should I continue to downvote spam comments? The comment ratio on Steemit is very low and when there are comments, it's the same people spamming gifs for pennies.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@spiz0r ·
$0.59
I think instead of downvoting useless comments, we should UPVOTE good comments. In this way we will get the same result and we wont censor comments.
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vote details (12)
@dana-edwards ·
$2.29
I agree with you and follow that policy. I don't downvote to take money away from people. I upvote to give money to people. I don't like the strategies which are based around punishing people for success. I would say reward a competitor if there is one.

If you don't like the makeup tutorial then vote for another new person doing something similar so the rewards are spread out. The point is people have to get big rewards and the days when an ordinary person gets a $100,000 reward for a post then this is the best kind of marketing for Steemit possible.

People all over the Internet will see that this happened and rush to join Steemit.
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vote details (8)
@wingz ·
$1.19
Im not sure but I think the drop to 26k was due to the 75% posting rewards payout... or maybe something to do with the price fluctuating.

I agree with you to a certain extent but I think these kinds of posts serve as potential advertisement for mass adoption. I recently convinced a friend of mine to join the platform (once sign ups are open) she's been hustling trying to create a cooking show on Youtube and then leverage that to start a catering business.

Even though she has 45k subscribers she gets paid peanuts. I tried to convince her with my geeky articles, but she only really showed interest when she saw the makeup video and then the cake baking video. She saw where she could offer value.

It's about getting people like her involved that will push the user adoption rate up explosively. I think the whales know this, which is why we're seeing article or videos that can 'advertise' mass adoption so heavily upvoted.
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vote details (9)
@rok-sivante ·
$0.16
yes. different forms of value. alot of users might not personally be into certain content themselves, but highly rewarding certain niche stuff could potentially prove very valuable to different aspects of Steemit's growth...
👍  ,
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@dana-edwards · (edited)
$0.20
Exactly! People want to see that people like themselves are getting big payouts on Steemit. It's not going to be attractive if people only see nerds shuffling money and paying each other but when they see it's a person like them getting the big payout? That will change everything for crypto.

The problem with crypto has been that only geeks could get Bitcoins. You had to either know how to mine, or know how to write C++, or be a hardcore anarchist or libertarian. In reality most people aren't like that and for every person like us there are probably a hundred or a thousand people who don't have those interests.

When Steemit is successful the most popular posts probably will be posts about stuff ordinary people are interested in. It probably wont be tech related but that doesn't mean it's not making people happy or providing value to people.
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vote details (6)
@spookypooky ·
I think the biggest missing link that many people are not seeing is the 'social value' and the capital of having friends and connections on this platform. Quality comments go equally far as quality posts in connecting with others, which is the REAL value of this network

I've elaborated on my views toward Steem marketing and social capital here: https://steemit.com/value/@spookypooky/posts-on-steemit-aren-t-valuable

Let me know what you think of it, I've seen the discussion pop up in MANY threads and posts over the past days and I think it's a very adequate topic to discuss deeply.
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@dana-edwards ·
Social capital is exactly what I meant.
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@clevecross ·
I saw Alla post just a bit ago. Good job bringing her on board and I hope she finds success beyond her other ventures here!
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@prufarchy ·
So far, I've really only down voted chesters or abusive posts, I hadn't considered the down voting trends, you're giving me a lot to chew on haha. 

I have to say that I agree that it's hard to identify when to down vote sometimes. For example, check out this gem of a conversation that I did not down vote because I believe the OP was being genuine, even though I can't stomach his line of thinking: https://steemit.com/homosexuality/@miguel12/the-cause-of-homosexuality

So I've determined how I'm going to respond to genuine OP's who's views I disagree with, but now I have to consider trending topics. This Steem addiction isn't easy
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@burmik123 ·
i think a lot of people just look at others and upvote top posts. Taras crap-post is a good example. There is a simple guide here on Steemit How to be a populat - just born with boobs and pussy. it is a pity.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@getssidetracked · (edited)
$1.25
Wonderful post! Sorry to hear you were locked out of your account during the hack.

" am I the only one who had higher hopes for this platform to become something game-changing and revolutionary - a socio-economic catalyst transforming the nature of social media"
 This. 100 times this. I have been everywhere from beginning of reddit, 9gag, funnyjunk, voat, etc and this is the first time I am so excited about a new one popping up and showing more promise than anything ever has before. Not that I had invested in any of the previous ones, and I doubt most people even had the possibility too. Steemit makes everything possible, and I am 100% that no matter how long it will take for mass adoption, with bigger userbase and more balanced voter-value in time it will all become golden.
Not to mention Steem can do so much more than just being a social platform, it can do what augur (crowdvoting) and any marketplaces and many other apps that are being developed by the Ethereum team. 

Usually I liked to compare eth and btc to Apple and Microsoft, now its more like btc being Internet Explorer, eth being firefox and Steem being the beta version of google chrome.

I have been into altcoins for some time, and have been promoting Steemit on my instagram: www.instagram.com/crypt0trader and the userbase is growing there every day too! Would love it if you could take a look at my post: https://steemit.com/steemit/@getssidetracked/the-steemit-community-on-instagram-is-growing 
where I warn people about suspicious activity from user: steemit on Instagram, and to make sure not more users get their accounts hacked/phished

Thanks for this blogpost! I also want to take the time to mention not to forget the comment sections of posts! If there is anything I've learned on reddit its that the comments can be a place of originality and most unique stuff you could read, most times leading to them being of more quality than the uploaded content, and that's the real beauty of quality reading!
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vote details (7)
@rok-sivante ·
thanks for the thoughtful comment.

I'll be looking forward to reading more of your input later, especially on the comparisons between Steem & ETH blockchains - a topic I've been curious about. sounds like you may have some interesting insight on this...
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@busser ·
$0.24
If I don't like post, I don't read it. That's all. Thee's no need to downvote. If it's written by some disgusting hater, hardly it'll get many votes. I've never downvoted (maybe accidentally clicked this flag)
👍  ,
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@saulius ·
@rok-sivante Great write up! As @wingz mentioned the drop from 32k to 26K might be caused by the price fluctuating and not only downvotes. 

I'm not heavily invested as you are. In fact, I've only discovered Steem several days before but 26k for a simple make-up video makes me question the reasoning of people who voted. 

As I understand, a number of whales  must upvote to accumulate such huge amount. They might try to justify the vote as and attempt to expose Steemit to a wider  audience, specifically, women. But is it truly the best you can think of as an investor? By now the make-up tutorial has roughly 1.6k views... 1.6k views for friggin 26k? It's $16 per view. And I can guarantee, the video won't magically become viral overnight and gather additional 100 000 000. That being said, I have nothing against the make-up girl (she's lovely), I question the whales action for upvoting content that represents Steemit.
👍  
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@saulius ·
Fuck, Steemit has so much more potential than becoming another Youtube make-up channel or TMZ. We could literally finance independent journalists, send them to Rio to cover issues that Brazil's government don't want to talk about. Steemit could finance documentary creators... "Sponsored by Steemit" in opening credits. How does that sound? Steemit, as a brand, should be that cool guy in a bar, who always tells stories, you won't hear from anyone else.

In my opinion, if you produce original, captivating content, you capture people's attention. If you have people's attention, you become valuable. Whales, who upvoted, should ask themselves.  Is make-up video tutorial a ground-breaking piece of content?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@rok-sivante ·
perhaps, in a way it was, as it was truly marketed as the first in a potentially significant niche - and it was done well. is was a success story of its own, though not something that's gonna happen every day...
👍  
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@steemgrindr · (edited)
$0.25
I actually agree with this use-case of downvoting. It's another way for high-value SP members to exercise their ability to curate and influence the site's content. 

Since the whales have the most to lose if the quality on Steemit degrades to the point where people start losing interest and leaving,  I think it's fair and that they have the right to make these kind of downvotes. 

I've definitely seen a fair number of posts earning ridiculous amounts of rewards for the type of content they've added, but overall I think the quality of the trending page's posts has been getting better and that makes me optimistic that the Steemit is improving and on the right track.
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@rok-sivante ·
i think it's also an honorable approach to take that if you DO downvote/flag anything, to include a comment as to WHY the choice was made - so as to provide feedback for the offending user. that may be a valuable gift that they straighten them self out with in the future.
👍  , , ,
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@dtbahoney ·
That's a good point and not one I had considered.  I'll definitely be doing this more, explaining why I downvote.
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@jugg ·
I guess if's it fake for sure or in bad taste.
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@oneyesoneno ·
<b>Steemit Quotes Of The Day – 
Sometimes life is tough. 諦めない</b>
<img src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0xgYvmGLJ7Y/V5ED8rd8lwI/AAAAAAAALF8/rWrcjfjBCQEAxXigwsQwwGA_Zbm0WcIKACLcB/s1600/steemit-quotes-of-the-day-oneyesoneno-11.gif" width="632" height="248"/>

Btw i upvote your post because it is a great sharing :)
👎  
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@sauravrungta ·
What a refreshing post! I totally agree with you that the rewards should be fair and not excessive at all.

But due to the very nature of creative writing, it is difficult to gauge just how valuable something is. What I am trying to ask is....how do we determine at what point something becomes too excessively rewarded. Is a $10,000 reward on an original content more excessive, or is $11,000 reward on an analysis of something more excessive?

These are matters that will get solved automatically in as the platform matures and the users "settle in".
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@dana-edwards ·
$0.26
I have no concept of excessive. It's whatever the market says it's worth. If a post gets $100,000 and it's just a piece of art work which looks like paint thrown on a canvas then that is what the community views the value of that art at that time.

The question is whether or not it's ethical to interfere with the market in this instance? I don't think it's ethical to interfere.  I don't understand why people are obsessed with Sneakers or with Pokemon Go but I do understand people value it a lot and would probably vote these topics up a lot. I wouldn't vote it down just because I don't want some other person to make money and I don't understand the attitude of blocking others from making "too much money".

To the girl with the makeup tutorial, I'm happy for her. Same for the African guy who made enough money to get out of poverty. These are success stories of the Steem platform and do more to market Steem than anything else.
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@sauravrungta ·
$0.24
Yeah, you are right! is sth is receiving value, then it means that the community deems it as valuable! good point! :))
👍  
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@dtbahoney ·
That's the thing, though, your vote is only one out of many, and you help to determine what the market will bear in this regard.  Don't like sneakers and Pokemon Go you should indicate this with your voice.  Just my opinion.
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@justtryme90 ·
$0.32
I only downvote something that I think is either plagiarism or a compromised account.
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@hastla · (edited)
$0.03
The issue here is that tag-spamming problem - people upvote this in masses and then all top 20 topics are dominated by the same posts. So you need a whole armada to downvote a more or less spammed post and even then the whales have to join. The problem now is that all whales upvote spammed posts - so in general they risk their whole investment as nobody is interested to search for relevant content between some other stuff. It can not be that the same 6 articles what are even top earners are in 18 of top20 topics.... then whole steemit is failed. I even wrote a post that editorial work must be done by whales to protect their investment:

https://steemit.com/money/@hastla/why-whales-and-dolphins-have-to-start-work-for-steemit-or-lose-their-whole-investment
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@jsteck ·
This was the info I was looking for when I was writing my post for the minnows this morning!  

https://steemit.com/steemit/@jsteck/minnow-code-of-conduct-how-one-minnow-would-like-to-see-the-rest-of-the-school-behave
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@recursive ·
$10.21
It's courageous to take the stance of addressing the taboo around downvoting. Indeed downvoting should be used as liberally as upvoting: as a mean to steer the plateform in the right direction. 

Another thing that would be even more effective would be to soften the payout algorithm to use a function that grows less fast. Currently, payout growth is quadratic. This is the reason why there is no middle ground between a good payout and a ridiculously excessive payout.
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@jsteck ·
$3.85
Interesting.  Perhaps you or @rok-sivante could add to the comments in my "Minnow's Code of Conduct" post from this morning. I suggested that we (minnows) not use it as an 'I disagree' button but called out my lack of knowledge on the user base's overall consensus. 

It being a flag (as opposed to a thumbs down) made me view it as something to be used cautiously.
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vote details (5)
@recursive · (edited)
$3.67
It's true that the flag is setting some particular context that becomes difficult to ignore afterwards. The choice of using a flag was meant to discourage the type of vote brigading that we find on Reddit. The Bitcoin blocksize debate with wars between /r/btc and /r/bitcoin where opposing views were systematically downvoted into oblivion participated to the creation of echo chambers. We want to avoid this kind of thing happening here, but we may not have to do anything to prevent it because of the economic incentive stake holders have to ensure that the platform remains an enjoyable and user friendly space, which implies that downvoting should be done wisely.
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@jacobt ·
$0.07
"Currently, payout growth is quadratic. This is the reason why there is no middle ground between a good payout and a ridiculously excessive payout."

This is because the only votes that matter are whale votes currently.  It's not the algorithm, it's the distribution of SP that's the issue.  Obv there could be ways to curb this, but that's not seemingly being addressed.  That's the real issue.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@samtoland ·
I think this is a really interesting post - that demonstrates the different viewpoints of what Steemit is all about.

Personally I would fall into your camp, of an interest experiment and platform, that would offer a social network which rewards content-creator rather than a some group of shareholder.

There are however many here, you see the social media platform as being totally subservient to Steem and Steempower as an invest. This people tend to advocate the pumping of 'sensationalist' content in an effort to quickly broaden appeal and drive the price of Steem higher.

Interesting how all this is going to play out in the community. I think the founders are more in the middle, and I've heard there are plans to reconfigure the payout system to try and strike a balance between 'viral' content and more long-form content.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@gekko ·
votes are love 

but some people believe are better than others in the community 

really i don't know why 8]

spammers aside
👍  
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vote details (1)
@nelu.ceban ·
in my opinion its fair to pull down only when you fell angry when you read, 
just because you disagree with author's opinion, dont need tu pull down.
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@dana-edwards · (edited)
$0.03
My curation criteria is here: https://steemit.com/dana-edwards/@dana-edwards/my-criteria-for-curating-posts-on-steemit

I don't downvote just because I disagree with the content. I do not downvote if the content makes obscene amounts of money. I let the market decide the value of every post and I respect the decisions of the market.

If a post is abusive, or if it violates human rights for example, then I'll downvote. Don't threaten to harm others or initiate clear abuse or violence and I more than likely will not downvote the post even if I don't understand why other people value it so much.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@dwinblood ·
$0.24
I believe if I don't like something I don't vote on it.   That steers as well.   I down vote on obvious plagiarism and on things that could be deemed offensive (graphic porn gifs, graphic violence gifs) without warning the person and allowing them to opt into seeing it first.     Other than that I will not down vote something simply because I disagree with it.    Since the FLAG is not next to the up vote.   I view it more as a REPORT THIS POST than I do an actual down vote.      This is of course my opinion.    I don't like liberal use of the down vote as I believe it can lead to circle jerks and people voting down well made comments and posts simply because they don't like the person's thought process.    This ruins many channels on reddit IMO.   "Don't post in r/politics about X,Y,Z, or the moderators and people will down vote you into non-existence."     I can disagree and choose not to vote, or I can disagree and choose to respond and have a civil discussion with the person.   Sometimes I'll up vote people I disagree with just for being civil and having a discussion with me and making me think.    YOU WON'T LEARN MUCH BY ONLY TALKING TO PEOPLE THAT ALREADY AGREE WITH YOU.     **You learn the most by having GOOD discussions with people who you may disagree with.**
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@silentpower ·
Happy to see you expressing this as it needs to be heard. I was deeply disappointed in the performance of my post explaining why I shot that video but reading your last few posts is getting me excited about producing valuable content again. And of course if I keep seeing stupid shit at the top I'll make more ridiculous video parodys, no let's be honest mockery of that crap!
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@alexgr ·
*"While we've been advised to save down-votes for spam and abusive content"*

To be honest I think this can only work with very-low value accounts. I hate to downvote spam because I'm wasting 2-3-5 cents that could be used to reward someone. If my account vote was worth like 0.0001$ that would be different than 0.02-0.05$. And if you are a whale, I guess a -500$ upvote for spam or not-critically-abusive stuff is not an option and you are kind of forced to leave it for other people.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@dasan-oneia ·
if you down-vote  someones post just because you in your infinite wisdom think they are earning to much, you are just a hater, an envious bitch. as if the money is coming from some shared treasury. Its not your money!!! you are stealing from people with no gain for yourself its stupid and evil
👍  
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vote details (1)
@dtbahoney ·
You're not stealing something they don't have yet.  You are participating in the community deciding what something is worth, and this is vital.  If you only upvote you're only doing half your job.
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@dasan-oneia ·
i upvote the post i like 
i down vote offensive material racism, hate, etc
if an article i have no interest in is making a lot money ill leave them alone good for them , but down voting them because of my personal opinion no that's wrong.
and yes you are taking from them the power of the votes they received justly 
and i define my job i dont work for any of you.
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@uniwhisp ·
So this question may be slightly unrelated...but does the value going down on a post mean that people have downvoted it?! Because my posts always seem to go down after a little while, and the votes don't seem to be.    I'm new to this. So I appreciate this article and all the other info. Thanks!
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@demotruk ·
As it stands now, maybe such an approach would be ok. However I think the ideal solution I expect the developers to pursue is for the allocation algorithm itself to cleanly handle this kind of thing, where after a certain point increased votes lead to diminishing marginal returns so that the disparity becomes less extreme.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@innuendo · (edited)
$0.92
We have a clear UX flaw: the same tool is being used for two very different goals: 
- to flag spam/abuse
- to lower the payout of a legitimate post. 

As a result we have two problems: 
- users are confused (they see a legitimate post being flagged for no apparent reason)
- once a post gets flagged it cannot be un-flagged, even by a whale  

This needs to be fixed!
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@nzoomed ·
But i dont see any "downvote" botton, only upvote, how is downvoting even possible?
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@churdtzu ·
He means flagging.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@spaceghost ·
You simply cannot please everyone. If its not for you, move along. Thats how I feel anyway. I doubt I ever down vote anything. Why be negative.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@liondani ·
$1.32
> Granted, I may be biased, and may not see the bigger picture of how these seemingly "unfair" reward distributions may in some way generate an attraction that could advance Steemit's long-term position.

That is my hope, but I have similar concerns with you!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@churdtzu ·
$0.24
Who are any of us to say what is fair or unfair? And if you knock some make-up tutorial down a peg, does that really benefit you? You feel that your content and other content is more valuable, and I certainly agree that you add valuable content. But when people, many people, vote for something, they do so because they find it valuable. And what is wrong with that?

Having said that, I upvoted this post because it's definitely a conversation that needs to be had. 

Have a good day!
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@dtbahoney ·
We are part of a community which is built upon us having ideas and opinions.  That's who we are to say fair or unfair.
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@phanie90 ·
good luck..
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@kimex ·
Thanks for sharing I wait for your next post
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@steelman ·
This is really great article and very good points, unfortunately I think you earned too much and I have to downvote. Keep up good work! :)
👎  
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vote details (1)
@imjefe ·
Ouch.
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@kaylinart ·
I think this is brilliant!
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@azaan ·
https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://i.imgsafe.org/2a751aa87c.gif
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@elargroup ·
Similar to SP, SMD tokens cannot be purchased directly on an external exchange. SMD are primarily earned through contributing but can be purchased by converting STEEM tokens to SMD tokens.

Actually Steem Dollars can now purchased on external exchanges !
https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_sbd
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-SBD

PS Abbreviation of SBD = Steem Backed Dollars
or just SD = Steem Dollars (not SMD please edit)
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@politicasan2 ·
In my opinion a social media today, not only to share information and update our daily life activity, but also as a platform to branding our offline work or as an ecommerce like online shop etc
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@gilang-ramadhan ·
https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13815168_293242154362615_1386721301_n.jpg?oh=508623d1ccbef7929d494a1efba2d974&oe=5795C24B
👍  
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vote details (1)
@knozaki2015 ·
I think that currently the user base is too small, and i would guess the ration between man and woman would be 90/10 at the moment.

while i don't like using the flag too, the huge payouts are just a result, that we don't have enough users on the steemit platform right now.

So at the moment, the geeks ( guys sitting in their basements staring at their macbooks, while trading crypto on an exchange) respond to pictures of girls, and vote the hell out of a post. 

So Girls + Cute + whatever content = Big Reward.

I am 100% sure, that this will adjust in no-time. The girl taking back that insane amount of Steem $ and Power, will have some votiing power herself now. Not too much, but i am sure she wont vote for steemit or cypto articles.

She will vote for more interesting stuff and the best thing her friends whom must be joing steemit at an incredible rate.

Just think of it, i told my friends i earned over 5k in a week here, i know of at least 30 People signing up and already posting. 

imagine if you told you friends you just earned 30.000 USD with a single posts, which took you 1-5 hours to prepare. 

-> believe me, her friends are telling everybody, and everybody will be trying to get into steemit !  

So kudos to  the 2-3 Whales which made sure that post earned that incredible award, you have proven, that you have the long term vision and have used your super powers to vote up a Story, which was doomed to make users comment about it, tell others about it, crying , being jealous about it.

So that has been the perfect PR Stunt from a whales perspective.

Wait until one totally stupid post earns 100.000 USD !!! it will be all over the media. Millions will try to signup once they hear about that new gold rush.

its like ebay in the beginning, you could sell anything without any governance. these days, ebay is a pain in the ass (KYC etc.) but there was a time, where eBay just grew like crazy and it was a lot of fun.

The one thing i wanted to ask all the whales out here. Please encourage people to comment more, get more involved, by voting up good comments. 

If you havent read my article about this WHALE https://steemit.com/fishing/@knozaki2015/huge-whale-meeting-eddy-willis-at-half-moon-bay 
check it out now !!
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@najoh ·
I totally agree with you, as an investor myself i don't see yet the potential in steemit as a long term investment. People are only posting things that will generate a lot of likes and money but they are not posting really useful stuff. Getting rewarded thousands of dollars for a blog post on your holidays or some make up tutorial is not sustainable in the long term and i predict the collapse of this platform or a drastic change to come.

When this platform went online i thought we would see incredible content that you can't find anywhere else, like the post i did on futures contracts. But my post got only 2cts in rewards. This doesn't make any sense.
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@jl777 ·
$0.10
Here is a relevant post https://steemit.com/steem/@jl777/truth-and-fairness-vs-popularity-what-to-do-when-a-post-that-says-another-post-is-wrong-and-gets-more-reward-than-the-original

which was downvoted by the author of the second post which does seem unfair to me
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@revulv · (edited)
I up-voted this in spite of the disturbing imagery of the make-up man. There are a few posts that I would've down-voted but have no down-vote button on my screen.  Who can down-vote?
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@dtbahoney ·
It's the flag on the top right corner of each post.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@revulv ·
Ah I see. Thanks.  I guess it's good that the flag is not so obvious since they want you to use it sparingly.
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@sgnsteems ·
Great post and explanation of down voting. Do what you feel is right for you!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@williambanks ·
@rok-sivante  I totally respect you and your opinions, you should know that I think I've upvoted everything I've seen you post.  But this???
It's kind of a dick move.  I hate to put it that way, but it's true.

You don't get what you "deserve".  No one ever promised that.
You get what you "earn".  

I don't at all support the makeup tutorial or like 90% of what gets posted here, but the fact is someone is enjoying it and upvoting.  

This is because there is 0 resistance in upvoting, by design.  Whitepaper even says tipping doesn't work because of hesitation when asked for an amount. 

There isn't a "you're about to reward this poster more than the annual GDP of the country they reside in, are you sure you want to continue?" alert anywhere to be found.

The problem is manifold.  Whales have WAY too much horsepower when it comes to voting.  According to @Dan they can in fact scale their votes it's not an all or nothing kind of thing.  Our UI should reflect that, but doesn't right now.

Want to fix the problem?  Let's get someone to fix the UI.  There literally should be a warning every time you vote, or a friggin popup or something with a slider maybe.  Fact is I dunno, I'm not a UX designer.  But if someone can fix that, it solves a TON of issues right off the bat.  But if you fix that, it will slow the currency disbursion rates unless there is a compensating mechanism allowing the number of votes to proceed proportionally to the scale factor.

I know this because after our new 14 year old manga loving friend was upvoted today to $3,000 USD on her intro post, I decided to poke around.

Whales are liking what they like and until every "upvote" requires a comment, we aren't going to know their thoughts.  

The platform is functioning EXACTLY like the whitepaper.  You say you didn't sign on for this, but in fact you did, we all did.

The problem is the demographics of our whales.  If we had more female whales we would see men in speedos being upvoted.  There is no duty of care, you're paying for the whale's opinion and allowing their weight seriously override your own.  Those are just the rules.

This isn't a democracy, it's not a republic.  There's a word for it when a very few wealthy individuals control the entire economy, but I won't use it here because it's become a loaded term.  However don't kid yourself about democracy, nothing about this ever said democracy.  :D

Our platform is what it is right now, because we all continue to consent to it, because let's face it, Bread and Circuses amirite?  

Unless we change the rules and move to a *per capita* voting system instead of a *per capital* voting system, then you are always going to see the opinion of the top few % of users by wealth outstripping everyone else's opinion by a wide margin.  

But sometimes those opinions do align, and when they do, none of us are complaining.

@Dan liked an article today by @dana-edwards and this person now has over $10k.  My opinion is it was WELL deserved.  The content was extremely thought provoking and compelling. The pay was on par with what could be expected for a paid journal author.  @Xeroc got $40k, that frankly to my mind was a total under payment considering what that guy has been doing for the community over the years, but it is what it is.

I'm excited about these, because they reflect my opinion of what defines quality content.  So I upvoted this stuff too even though it was already at the top as a way of showing my support, despite there being no earnings in it for myself.

I'm excited by this content, it makes me happy.  But I showed both articles to new friends who are coming over here from real life and they're like *WTF is this shit Bill?  I don't even understand it?  What's the point in giving these guys so much money!  Who is even in a position to understand it?  How is that more important to these guys than the Tits-n-travel gal, now her stuff was hilarious!*

Thing is today the whales felt the same way I did on a few articles, that's all and that's the system we're in.  But taking money away because you disagree?  It wasn't your money.  It's just being dick, don't do that unless it's spam, otherwise we all look really bad for it and devalues the whole flagging system.

What's funny is this is a 180° turn from my stance just the other day.  But it's because I've had time to talk and think about it.  I highly, seriously doubt that the whales are upvoting for the lulz as a way of trolling us.  They like the content, are attracted to the pretty girls and just hit the vote button without a lot of consideration.

We assume that the whales owe us something, even if it's just a duty of care, but that's simply not the case.

Here is where the problem lays.
In the white paper, @Dan made the same mistake every other POS believer makes.  The assumption that *bagholders will always do what is in the best interests of the coin because it's in their economic best interests*

This assumption is really, seriously, horribly flawed.  The reality that has been demonstrated time and time again is actually this...
*bag holders will only do what is in the best interests of the coin as long as it aligns with their other interests and there isn't a more lucrative option*

In otherwords, a rational person will do whatever they can to make money.

Way back when the first PoS coins were starting to come online I remember a user over on bitcointalk, I can't remember his name though.  He was predicting this about all PoS coins.  His example was a whale who stands more to gain by shorting the coin, then hiring attackers to interrupt the network and spread fud.  He can make WAY more money than just holding the coin and praying it one day recovers.  So he will do it because there is strong financial incentive to do so and very low risk of problems.  

This exact pattern has been repeated time and time again.  It's a flaw in all stake systems and it's one that can't be overcome so long as stake matters.

After that example I came to realize that any time you weight the value of a person's contribution by the amount of money in their wallet, you have a design flaw on your hands.  A design flaw that cannot be fixed whilst maintaining the precepts of stake based voting.  

Sure let the whales, or anyone for that matter, use their coin to increase their own earnings rate or simply to give them the power to vote more often.  

But actual voting weights should be conferred based on reputation, which means followers and lack of down votes.  It's the only way this works in the long run.

We don't have that here, and I don't believe any of us are going to be able to convince the devs to change it.  In 2 years when the money is all spread out and people are earning normal amounts of money then maybe everyone will start being paid what they deserve instead of what they earn.

In the meantime we should do what we can to maximize our visits from the money fairy.  There are things we can do to get on the front page, some of them completely honest, some of them may feel less than honest, but in reality are just business deals.

The truth is though, this is actually the way the world we live in right now really works.  It's not egalitarian, despite how much as we may want it to be.  

I went into a building today and saw an older lady hard at work scrubbing the floors, sanitizing surfaces and working her fingers to the bone.  Then I had my meeting with the CEO and we took a ride in his convertible BMW to go get lunch.  I looked at the lunch bill and remembered we had talked labor costs.  The lunch bill was easily more than the money that lady had earned the entire week.

Did she deserve more than the CEO?  I would actually say yes, she did she certainly worked harder.  But did she earn more than the CEO?  Clearly no.  
Why?  Because the world we live in values things differently than we do.

Steemit is just a reflection right now of the world we live in.

If we want things to change, we must be the change we want to see in the world.  What we have is not sustainable in the long run.  But it does work right now and we all stand to make a lot of money while it works.  Money we can use to fix things on our own. So I suggest instead of downvoting our newly rich friends, we show them the power that they have to change the world.  Reach out and support them, make sure they understand how this stuff works.  Applaud them like we do all lottery winners and just keep buying our tickets with the best content we have to offer.
After all, like it says at the 7/11 lottery counter... 
You can't win if you don't play!
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@artyom ·
I think it's reasonable to expect that at this stage there will be a lot of volatility and disproportionate payouts. 

Compare it to the securities market. If there is little liquidity (few buyers and sellers), one trade can have a significant impact on the price of an asset. Same here, as there is still little content compared to Reddit or YouTube, certain content will attract a disproportionate amount of votes. 

I think this will even out over time as more users will join, and other platforms with similar models start to appear.
👍  
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@elargroup ·
Similar to SP, SMD tokens cannot be purchased directly on an external exchange. SMD are primarily earned through contributing but can be purchased by converting STEEM tokens to SMD tokens.

Actually Steem Dollars can now purchased on external exchanges !
https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_sbd
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-SBD

PS Abbreviation of SBD = Steem Backed Dollars
or just SD = Steem Dollars (not SMD please edit)
http://linkme.ufanet.ru/images/9d8c77c4463f7a2b3e24c27a8796fd79.jpg
👎  
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vote details (1)
@juvyjabian ·
I dont know much about the mechanics of voting and down voting, i just notice something when Im voting, instead of adding few cents to the post it was deducted. I know I have a very small voting power funny:) but I wanted to know if that thing has a reflection to my SP.
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@mystis ·
It's a good point but at the same time, "fairness" is difficult to define. You could just say that if it gets popular, it's because people appreciate the content that was created and we have to have a look at the society as it is and not the rewarding system. If make-up tutorials get fame, it means that viewers appreciate the content, it's easy to understand, replicate and doesn't take a lot of time to read or watch.  Now, I'm glad steemit as an actual downvoting system to counterbalance it and it seems fair that people are able to downvote too. In the end, it's up to the community to manage itself and that's a big challenge as it is.
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@dev ·
I also saw a trend where people are downvoting without even reading the content. Couple of my posts were downvoted in the first two minutes of posting it. Your post must be read by all these people.

I too created a post to address this. Like all of my posts it never took off. https://steemit.com/steemit/@dev/with-some-power-comes-even-more-responsibility-please-don-t-ruin-steemit
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@johnsmith ·
$0.03
Can confirm this is a thing. My post hit top of front page, was at about $8k. Couple hours before payout got like 20 downvotes for no apparent reason, downvoters didn't even comment. Payout went down over $500. Reduces rewards for everyone, including comments. Not cool!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@fintech-jesus ·
$0.04
I'm just getting started here with Steemit and glad I was finally able to find a post like this. This platform has enormous potential and I was very surprised at how poor some of this content is and the absurd payouts some people are receiving. Almost everything with big payouts is platitudes to Steemit. I get it guys, Steemit is cool...but can someone post some quality/unique content?

But here's my take, and let's hope for the sake of the platform (and humanity) that this is just Steemit getting its legs. Like those who were fortunate enough to come across Bitcoin in the early days, the early adopters of Steemit are enjoying an unforeseen and exponential upside relative to the value they are creating.  This is bringing new users to the platform, and hopefully will attract some very talented people who contribute to a better platform. I'm optimistic - and hopefully we won't have to use the downvote feature much longer as people will just gloss over the nonsense without even voting.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@karnal ·
$0.03
> Steemit's capital pool being so unproportionately distributed to tabloid news stories and passing fads hardly seems like a sustainable business model.

This is frankly beginning to get to me as well. I have put hours of research and writing and proofreading and produced a few posts; two were moderate successes in their day, but the three last ones were failures.

It is not even the fact that they were failures that bothers me.

[Here is a post](https://steemit.com/life/@jlwkolb/this-mad-addiction) a little over three paragraphs long. About being sucked in, having no self control, and letting an addiction take over - it ended up being worth $6700.

[I wrote my take on that behavior pattern, why it is not beneficial, and how it can be overcome](https://steemit.com/money/@karnal/take-a-step-back). It draws on years of personal experience and reflections; the prose, I would like to think, is vastly more expressive than the couple of paragraphs without formatting that compose the other post.

It was deemed to be worth $428.

Complaining about the problem with reckless abandon, no formatting and no solution ? $6700.
A thoughtful, dare I say well written solution to said problem? $428.

I realize how this sounds, and I will not let it stop me from writing (for the time being), but either there is clearly a problem with the way rewards are being distributed, or - perhaps unexpectedly - the shallow formulas that work in the larger society will also find success here, if steemit is but a microcosm of the larger system.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thebluepanda ·
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If I want to see a make up tutorial in Steemit, what's wrong about it? There are a lot of people who would like to improve their make up skills. And if I upvote this kind of post, it doesn't make me less smart than someone who downvoted it, just because it is silly to earn so much because you or someone else think that this kind of content should not be part of Steemit. I thought it's a social media platform, no? Look at me I won't downvote your post, even though I don't agree with it completely.
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@alanc ·
I'm on the fence with you here.

I just feel like  this 
"If the vote is out of a personal prejudice, vendetta, grudge, or immature ego-based desire to knock someone down, it might not be so fair."
could equally apply to your dislike of the makeup tutorial.  

When addressing subjectivity, we can't just call our subjective prejudices objective and be done with it.  That's just not being honest to ourselves.  

That said, I mostly agree with you.
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@snubbermike ·
Boohoo, the world likes someone else's product more than they like yours.   You want more rewards? Create something that the market wants.

Where's the downvote button?
👍  
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@dtbahoney ·
I downvote anything I think shouldn't be here.  I have given it some thought, as clearly have you, and this is how I have decided is the best way for me to use my voice as a participating member of this thing, whatever this thing may turn out to be. Typically I spend most of my time in "New", where I am able to effortlessly find thing richly deserving of my negative attentions, but if I see something I think is ridiculous on the FP I will absolutely show it and everyone what I thik of it.  That said, I could care less either way about makeup tutorials, so I didn't vote on that one.  But other similar things, rewarded out of proportion to my perception of their worth?  Absolutely.  That's democracy to me.  If I can take a penny away from a simpleton I will do that.
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@inlighten ·
I have to say something is amiss here, I feel something ? wrong
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@mynameisbrian ·
I had not yet thought of the downvote button as a tool I *could* use to help shape the community. Not sure if I will use it, but I think it is worth some consideration. Is this good content? *Yay, nay, no vote*. Those are our options as participants.
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@eric-boucher ·
$0.11
Thanks for this post and perspectives, this is such a valuable discussion to have in our environment and really look forward to see how healthy things will become in relation to the upvoting as well as the downvoting business... I have the feeling it will dictate the healthy of our Steemland. More to come in the near future.   Namaste    :)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@moviefan ·
I tend to agree with up voting as opposed to down voting.  If someone else feels an article is worthy of their up vote who am I to take that away.  I think overall I tend not to read postings which I would not find interesting.  I believe as the platform becomes more evolved these types of posts will fall to the wayside.  At least that is my hope, for this site to become a wealth of knowledge and great articles.
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@flyover ·
Great post, brave analysis , in a true democracy the right to say "No" can't be forbidden, enough with the "happy flower power everything is good" avoiding vendetta down votes is what Find tricky to grant given the impossibility of hidden anonymous down votes.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cob ·
$0.46
People can vote up or down whatever they wish. They own the Steem Power hence the right to decide where funds should be allocated.

This post inspired me to write on this exact topic. Thanks rok-sivante.

https://steemit.com/steem/@cob/should-one-downvote-flag-the-simplest-guidelines-you-can-imagine
👍  , , ,
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