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RE: Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient by complexring

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· @complexring ·
$2.60
Sybil.
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vote your-acct "complexring" "re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t144208989z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638040z" "complexring" "re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t144208989z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@jl777 ·
$1.19
Well certainly if the big whales go out of their way to make sybil accounts just so they can upvote for it, at least it is more work for them to do. And since they already have a lot of SP, is it really worth for them to do this?

What percentage of the whales do you estimate would make sybil accounts just so they can upvote for themselves? Even if we cant prevent it, we can at least stigmatize it
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vote your-acct "jl777" "re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t145214560z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638042z" "jl777" "re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t145214560z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@complexring ·
$2.63
It's not even whales who would benefit from Sybil. Anyone could attack the platform that way.
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vote your-acct "complexring" "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t150118578z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638043z" "complexring" "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t150118578z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@jl777 ·
$0.06
i must need more coffee. could you explain where the attack is?
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vote your-acct "jl777" "re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t150421673z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638044z" "jl777" "re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t150421673z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@complexring ·
$2.60
Anyone could mine and / or create accounts for relatively cheap.  Even at the current difficulty levels now, you can mine 10 names a day (if not more) for a month at only 60 USD.  That's 300 names for 60 USD.  Now, do that with 15 servers (less than a grand) and you have 4500 names.  

Then, it's relatively simple to write scripts to upvote content and you have sybil.  Once you have a limiting rate effect of SP, you invite this type of attack.

In addition, it adds additional strain on network.
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vote your-acct "complexring" "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t165515688z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638046z" "complexring" "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t165515688z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@jl777 ·
$2.56
I still dont understand how using a subtractive effective SP makes it rate limiting...
It only reduces the power for upvoting someone with a lot of SP, even if the subtractive factor is sqrt(SP author) it biases upvoting to the smaller SP authors.
There can be a million sybil accounts, but what does that gain? The whales have to vote for them and if a whale is voting for newbie accounts that he controls, this will be noticed wouldnt it? especially if the content is weak. So then he needs to hire writers to create useful content, in which case it creates useful content
Maybe I wasnt clear that this was just to reduce upvote power and not to increase it, so whatever attack you say it has, the existing system can be attacked the same way with more power
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vote your-acct "jl777" "re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t173216840z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638047z" "jl777" "re-complexring-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t173216840z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@sigmajin ·
$0.05
Id expect most of the current whales got to be whales by mining, and my (admittedly poor) understanding is that you need many miners to be able to run mining all the time, because your miners can't mine while theyre in line to have their pow accepted by a witness.
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vote your-acct "sigmajin" "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t190844096z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-sigmajin-re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638048z" "sigmajin" "re-jl777-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t190844096z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@liondani · (edited)
$1.16
Even then we would be more  "attractive" to the outside world when they see that power is not centralized to a couple of whales but spread to more accounts (I mean at least marketing wise it would be better)

this graph is not yet so much encouraging... I hope the numbers will change and give as a more decentralized feeling in the near future...
https://i.imgsafe.org/39252b9813.png
https://steemd.com/distribution
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vote your-acct "liondani" "re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t154723652z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-liondani-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638050z" "liondani" "re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t154723652z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@jl777 ·
$0.05
Ideally each category would have approx the same stake. It seems my proposal is not liked by a couple of whales who have downvoted this post :(
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vote your-acct "jl777" "re-liondani-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t160523968z" 100 true
post_comment your-acct "re-jl777-re-liondani-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20181017t073638051z" "jl777" "re-liondani-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t160523968z" "" "your reply.." "{}" true

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@inkbit ·
I am sure that the percentages will equalize. Maybe the .14% will become the 1%. We can only pray.
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vote your-acct "inkbit" "re-liondani-re-complexring-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160730t060318611z" 100 true
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