RE: Meeting between Justin Sun, Korean Stakeholders, Steem Witnesses and Steem Foundation 12/03/2020 by distantsignal

View this thread on steempeak.com

Viewing a response to: @ausbitbank/meeting-between-justin-sun-korean-stakeholders-steem-witnesses-and-steem-foundation-12-03-2020

steemhostiletakeover · @distantsignal ·
$0.87
What a waste.  He doesn't comprehend - or pretends to not understand - that the chain cannot be changed without consensus from the witnesses at large and so therefor no guarantees can be made.  

I can't see this going well at all.  He wants all these concessions but gives absolutely none in return.  He wants downvoting gone, powerdowns to be in line with Tron, his stake to be given full rights with no guarantee that he won't use them to centralize the chain unless the witnesses can guarantee what they cannot.  It's a poison pill.

I wish I had an answer or a horde of cash to unlock this stalemate.  

For what it's worth, Justin is the one making the demands and he's asking big, making the witnesses come to him with concessions.  

Witnesses / the community should reverse this tactic and make the big asks (demands) or the chain forks by a certain date, even if it's a year from now.  We should put forth everything we want out of this and make him come up to our level.  If we keep at this game, either an eternal stalemate or a gradual capitulation of the community will occur.  

We should be pushing for what we want, not asking how we can get him to let up.  We might as well be crying uncle.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id85,116,771
authordistantsignal
permlinkre-ausbitbank-q71rc3
categorysteemhostiletakeover
json_metadata{"tags":["steemhostiletakeover"],"app":"steempeak\/2020.03.3"}
created2020-03-11 20:53:06
last_update2020-03-11 20:53:06
depth1
children11
net_rshares4,376,175,869,458
last_payout2020-03-18 20:53:06
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.433 SBD
curator_payout_value0.432 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,208
author_reputation27,401,717,068,091
root_title"Meeting between Justin Sun, Korean Stakeholders, Steem Witnesses and Steem Foundation 12/03/2020"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (16)
@rootdraws · (edited)
$0.03
Reminds me of my relationship with my daughter's mom. MGTOW is the only solution I've found, and it kind of destroys the current relationship with daughter, but allows her emotional freedom from conflict, and opportunities for more wealth / security when she's older. 

Be Tron's Bitch, or Fork it. 

If Fork -- then, prepare to suffer for a few years, but ultimately hope for a more resilient chain and community. 

Long term conflict and stalemates just drain energy. 

Justin had the right idea -- in a detached from consequence / strategic analysis sense. 

Go for a coup. 

If you can't coup, then you enter war of attrition, which drains emotional and financial resources from all parties. 

It's the old baby and bathwater routine, mixed in with a toxic power dynamic.

Seems like the best thing to do might be to not act -- HODL and continue onward, and wear out his patience.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id85,119,883
authorrootdraws
permlinkre-distantsignal-q71zyc
categorysteemhostiletakeover
json_metadata{"tags":["steemhostiletakeover"],"app":"steempeak\/2020.03.3"}
created2020-03-11 23:59:00
last_update2020-03-12 00:06:48
depth2
children0
net_rshares188,616,100,449
last_payout2020-03-18 23:59:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.014 SBD
curator_payout_value0.014 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length885
author_reputation22,967,361,763,386
root_title"Meeting between Justin Sun, Korean Stakeholders, Steem Witnesses and Steem Foundation 12/03/2020"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@hobo.media · 
That makes no sense. Justin is not asking people who might one day become consensus witnesses to announce that they won't freeze his stake, he is asking the current consensus witnesses to promise not to do it. 

Saying that they must give a vague answer about decentralization is bullshit. These individuals cannot promise others will not produce blocks for a soft fork that freezes his assets, but they absolutely can promise to not do it themselves. And they most certainly can announce that they would refrain from adopting a soft fork that froze his stake. 

I'm not saying I'm on Justin Sun's side here, I'm just saying I'm calling out the bullshit answers.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id85,120,628
authorhobo.media
permlinkq722dh
categorysteemhostiletakeover
json_metadata{"app":"steemit\/0.2"}
created2020-03-12 00:51:18
last_update2020-03-12 00:51:18
depth2
children9
net_rshares3,540,340,496
last_payout2020-03-19 00:51:18
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length662
author_reputation21,765,957,547,111
root_title"Meeting between Justin Sun, Korean Stakeholders, Steem Witnesses and Steem Foundation 12/03/2020"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@distantsignal · (edited)
I'm sorry, but that's untenable promise and I think that's exactly what he's asking.  he wants to ensure that he can do whatever he wants, and while I believe he should have his stake, he needs to make promises to the community that he won't use it in certain ways, namely to take almost total control.

The top witnesses may be able to "promise", but like you said, that doesn't mean the rest of the community will allow it.  I would for one remove my vote if the power down was reduced too much.  The exchanges deserve the bed they've made and reducing the power down time too much puts the entire network at risk.  That's the witnesses point when they say they can't really promise that now or ever.  They can promise to try.  That's really it.  

I would also remove my vote if they took away the free downvotes.  I was wrong to oppose them in the beginning, and have seen their use better the network overall so far.

My larger point here is that Justin is making the demands, when it should be the other way around.  I've done some investigating on Tron and it's filled with junk apps overall.  Nothing but gambling apps and Sun controls something like %40 of the network.  There's no reason to really believe it would be any different here.  With Sun being able to move exchange stake in and out rapidly, I have a feeling the same kind of apps would spring up on Steem and ruin it.

EDIT:  Also, I believe that the witnesses have said they would unfreeze it so long as they could come to an agreement about what he would do with it, which he refuses to do.  So...
👍  
properties (23)
post_id85,120,742
authordistantsignal
permlinkre-hobomedia-q722wd
categorysteemhostiletakeover
json_metadata{"tags":["steemhostiletakeover"],"app":"steempeak\/2020.03.3"}
created2020-03-12 01:02:39
last_update2020-03-12 01:14:27
depth3
children8
net_rshares133,251,608,763
last_payout2020-03-19 01:02:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,570
author_reputation27,401,717,068,091
root_title"Meeting between Justin Sun, Korean Stakeholders, Steem Witnesses and Steem Foundation 12/03/2020"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@hobo.media ·
$0.03
We're on the same side, I agree with a lot you said, except for the free downvotes, I'm with the Korean community on that. 

Still, I really believe the best move here is peace. We should never freeze people's stake, freezing stake by 17 consensus witnesses will result in Steem losing all respect by the rest of the crypto industry. There is absolutely nothing fucking decentralized about 17 people deciding to freeze someone's assets. 

We might as well let the current witnesses state that they themselves will not accept a fork that freezes his assets. He is fine with a soft fork that takes away his voting rights! That is a big concession. We will not get that without giving something else in return. 

Its time the children stop being allowed to make decisions for this chain. Business involves compromise, and we need to give a little in order to get anything. Having the current consensus witnesses announce that they won't freeze the Steemit stake is a reasonable compromise. 

It can be an "if" statement involving a prerequisite, but the consensus witnesses should give him that. 

Everybody needs to understand how this will go. His stake is non-negotiable. Sue Ned if you want, but he feels he cannot just reverse his deal with Ned, which means he is stuck dealing with the Steem community. He will not simply give up his stake as a dev fund. That's not in the cards. 

Also, Ethereum Classic is not a fraction of Ethereum, and Steem does not have a fraction of the pull with the top exchanges that Justin does. We can get seriously screwed here. I'm talking next to no liquidity... Will you care about a crypto platform with no liquidity? 

Even if you say you will, I sincerely doubt you actually will.
👍  , , ,
properties (23)
post_id85,122,472
authorhobo.media
permlinkq729au
categorysteemhostiletakeover
json_metadata{"app":"steemit\/0.2"}
created2020-03-12 03:20:54
last_update2020-03-12 03:20:54
depth4
children7
net_rshares217,023,428,769
last_payout2020-03-19 03:20:54
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.016 SBD
curator_payout_value0.015 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,719
author_reputation21,765,957,547,111
root_title"Meeting between Justin Sun, Korean Stakeholders, Steem Witnesses and Steem Foundation 12/03/2020"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (4)
Help/Feedback