Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't... by evanprice

View this thread on steempeak.com
· @evanprice ·
$24.04
Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Sabaoth_icon_%28Russia%2C_19_c.%29_2.jpeg/220px-Sabaoth_icon_%28Russia%2C_19_c.%29_2.jpeg

---

# Free will.

---

Free will is the ability to choose one's destiny/fate/outcome.

If something is **Pre-Determined** then you do **not** have an **actual** choice in the outcome of the event.

People like to claim that "God gave me free will! I get to choose my destiny!" but that simply is **not** the case.

---

# Pre-Determination and what it means to the concept of  "free will."

---

Free will - The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate;
The ability to act at one's own discretion.

Now, why would we not have free will?
Basically.. Whenever someone, something, etc.. Knows the outcome of something, that negates any "free will."

Free will is the ability to decide an outcome.
When an outcome has already been determined.. You have **no** choice!

---

# A solid example that you might understand.

---

Now, it's pretty complicated to explain in it's entirety.. but this will help you get the gist of everything..

#### Does a computer have free will?

What did you answer?

Yes? No?

No. Obviously.. If you understand how computers work.

Just because a computer does not know what input will be administered, does **not** mean that it has "free will."

What does this mean?

This means, that, to the computer, the outcome was **unknown.**

Does this mean the computer was allowed to choose the outcome?

#### No.

Why not?

Because the computer's actions were **pre-determined**.
The computer had no decision, to it's knowledge, about what the outcome would be.
It simply **reacted** to what the **input** was!

Much of the same can be said about humanity and our belief of "free will."
We believe we are choosing things, because we believe that the outcome hasn't already been determined.

#### But it has.. According to religion.

---

# Religion, Pre-Determination and Why it means you have no choice/"free will."

---

Now, religion (most of them, anyhow..) claims that a "God" or "Gods" created all that is, was and will be.

Why is this important?

Basically... As in the case of the computer... Things are **pre-determined**.

An "all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, omniscient being.." Negates "free will."

When **something** or **someone** knows the outcome, prior to it being "decided.." That negates your ability to "choose your fate" as some would deem it.

This means, simply, that you **do not** believe in "free will" if you're religious and believe in an "all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing 'God.' "

---

# Conclusion.

---

Essentially, believing in someone, something, that knows all that "is, was and will be" means that you do **not** believe in free will, as free will is the ability to decide your fate, your course, your path or the direction that your life heads in.

A God would know this, prior to your knowledge, hence, making it pre-determined.. Meaning that you are not the decision-maker in the outcome of your future. You are simply a passenger on a vehicle that is headed in it's intended direction, despite what your beliefs are, as far as what you decide and what you don't go.

---
---

## Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I appreciate you! :)

## I hope that I have, at least, opened one person's eyes to the fact that belief in any "all-knowing" entity.. Means that nothing you do is within your control.

Some may accept this.. Some may refute it.. But the facts are the facts.. Pre-determination of any happening of events, means that, whether you believe so or not, you do **not** have a decision in your **fate**, you are simply a passenger on a ship that has been set to sail on a course that **cannot** and **will not** be changed.

---

# Again. Thank you for taking the time to read, whether you agree or not! :)
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id37,874,733
authorevanprice
permlinkwhy-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "format": "markdown", "image": ["https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Sabaoth_icon_%28Russia%2C_19_c.%29_2.jpeg/220px-Sabaoth_icon_%28Russia%2C_19_c.%29_2.jpeg"], "tags": ["life", "religion", "steemit", "fate", "freewill"]}"
created2018-03-10 21:00:15
last_update2018-03-10 21:00:15
depth0
children15
net_rshares7,326,405,922,973
last_payout2018-03-17 21:00:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value19.270 SBD
curator_payout_value4.774 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length3,868
author_reputation605,650,698,207
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (55)
@seyiodus ·
$0.08
Having a free will does not mean that you will know the outcome of what you wanted to do or what you are doing. Things might turn out to be what you are not expecting even when you think you know what will be the result. So to say that free will is knowing what an outcome will be is totally wrong to me.
Free will is to determine what you want to do whether wrong or right and or you know what the result will be or not.
>Essentially, believing in someone, something, that knows all that "is, was and will be" means that you do not believe in free will

Believing in someone does not mean that you did not have free will but it's saying that "I chose to believe in you and you did not force me. I can withdrawl at anytime. I want you to direct my way, decide my fate and do anything you like with me"
So, it is reversible.
👍  ,
properties (23)
post_id37,877,194
authorseyiodus
permlinkre-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180310t212515557z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-10 21:25:24
last_update2018-03-10 21:25:24
depth1
children4
net_rshares23,351,040,792
last_payout2018-03-17 21:25:24
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.060 SBD
curator_payout_value0.016 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length823
author_reputation11,364,636,663,857
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@kainmarx ·
No. Free will is being able to determine the outcome of your own future.
Believing in God means that you believe that he knows all that **will be**.
That means you do not believe you have an actual choice.. lol..
You're the perfect example. You think that you decide your fate, but you don't.. because you believe that some entity knows the future.. Free will is being able to choose your fate, not "believing you choose your fate." :)
properties (22)
post_id37,877,606
authorkainmarx
permlinkre-seyiodus-re-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180310t213003834z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-10 21:30:03
last_update2018-03-10 21:30:03
depth2
children3
net_rshares0
last_payout2018-03-17 21:30:03
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length435
author_reputation1,419,783,818,756
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@kainmarx ·
Example. If a "God" **knew** beforehand.. that you were going to change your mind.. You didn't "freely" change your mind.. You acted on pre-determined circumstances...
properties (22)
post_id37,877,722
authorkainmarx
permlinkre-kainmarx-re-seyiodus-re-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180310t213122784z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-10 21:31:21
last_update2018-03-10 21:31:21
depth3
children2
net_rshares0
last_payout2018-03-17 21:31:21
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length167
author_reputation1,419,783,818,756
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@postpromoter ·
$0.15
re-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180310t234610962z
You got a 1.80% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @kainmarx!

Want to promote your posts too? Check out the [Steem Bot Tracker website](https://steembottracker.com) for more info. If you would like to support the development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please [vote for @yabapmatt for witness!](https://v2.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=yabapmatt&approve=1)
👍  
properties (23)
post_id37,891,182
authorpostpromoter
permlinkre-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180310t234610962z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "postpromoter/1.8.6"}"
created2018-03-10 23:46:09
last_update2018-03-10 23:46:09
depth1
children0
net_rshares47,795,619,536
last_payout2018-03-17 23:46:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.116 SBD
curator_payout_value0.038 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length391
author_reputation21,053,937,692,175
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@bitgeek ·
comment
Congratulations @evanprice, this post is the eighth most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Newbie account holder (accounts that hold between 0.01 and 0.1 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by newbie account holders during this period was 3858 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $2425.11. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, [click here](www.steemit.com/steemit/@bitgeek/payout-stats-report-for-11th-march-2018--part-ii). 

If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, please reply stop to this comment.
properties (22)
post_id37,940,599
authorbitgeek
permlinkre-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180311t074255
categorylife
json_metadata{}
created2018-03-11 07:42:57
last_update2018-03-11 07:42:57
depth1
children0
net_rshares0
last_payout2018-03-18 07:42:57
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length624
author_reputation13,048,348,742,603
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@lastdays ·
Dear @evanprice,

Question: 

If a person just learned to play chess, why would he or she not defeat a Grandmaster Chess Player?

Answer:

The first few moves in the chess opening lays the foundation for every chess game. Since the Grandmaster is much more knowledgeable and experienced playing the game, the Grandmaster knows how to counter the beginners first few moves and is able to plan more moves in advance. 

The beginner has free will. He or she can make any opening move he or she desires. In fact the beginner has the choice to make any legal move for the entirety of the game. 

The fact that the Grandmaster wins doesn't negate the opponents ability to choose. But even the Grandmaster has to play by the rules.

*The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.*  2 Peter 3:9

God, like the chess master, knows in advance the possibilities of the choice a man or woman might make. He is sovereign and His plans and purposes will be fulfilled.

BUT since it is His will that no one will perish, then why isn't everyone saved? 

Because people have the "free will" to accept the gracious gift of salvation or to reject Christ as Lord and Savior.

You see, that even God has to play by the rules. Since mankind was given "free will," God will not override the choice a person makes. 

*Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.* Ezekiel 33:11a

Why did God again and again send His prophets to His people to plead with them to turn from their idolatry, immorality, and carnality? 

Because they had free will and it had to be their decision to repent and receive God's blessings.

Shalom, Steven Sherman @last days
👍  ,
properties (23)
post_id38,055,700
authorlastdays
permlinkre-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180311t234135864z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "users": ["evanprice", "last"], "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-11 23:33:54
last_update2018-03-11 23:33:54
depth1
children5
net_rshares2,488,209,526
last_payout2018-03-18 23:33:54
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,869
author_reputation317,850,004,724
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@evanprice ·
Free will is the ability to choose an outcome.. If someone or some thing knows the outcome, even if it's unbeknownst to the participant.. That is still **not** free will. As far as your chess metaphor goes.. I've seen many a grandmaster be beaten by a newbie.. know why? Because of luck and human nature. We are flawed. The grandmaster often underestimates the newbie and that can often lead to them making decisions without thinking things completely through. They look at the newbie as "inexperienced" and often don't fully think about the moves they make. Also, newbies tend to **accidentally** make game-ending moves against masters.. Here is a simple video to show you a grandmaster being beaten, horribly, by a newbie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtk4D_DEuM

Also, you do not have a choice to "accept" or "reject" the lord. You are designed to either have faith and be a believer, or not. It is **all** by design, there is no manipulating what is already determined by "god." As much as people like to try to disprove me.. Your words simply have proven my point.. "God" knows that you will either be faithful or unfaithful, before you do it, does not change the fact that "God" knows, beforehand, what the outcome will be. That negates free will, altogether.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id39,476,976
authorevanprice
permlinkre-lastdays-re-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180319t194841275z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "links": ["https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtk4D_DEuM"], "image": ["https://img.youtube.com/vi/vNtk4D_DEuM/0.jpg"], "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-19 19:48:39
last_update2018-03-19 19:48:39
depth2
children4
net_rshares2,600,237,140
last_payout2018-03-26 19:48:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,270
author_reputation605,650,698,207
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@lastdays ·
Yes, **I agree**. Grandmasters can be beaten even by newbies because they are fallible human beings. Just because God knows the end from the beginning doesn't mean that he destines people to hell.  

**I would appreciate it, if you would please take the time to answer my two questions.**

*The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, **not wanting anyone to perish**, but everyone to come to repentance*. 2 Peter 3:9

Q1 - Is it true that the Lord does not want anyone to perish or is God a liar?

Jesus is the Amen, the faithful and **true** witness. The Lord is the way, the **truth** and the life.

Q2 -So kindly explain, if the Lord desires that everyone come to repentance, and people do not have a choice (no free will) how can they resist His desire?

Thank you for this stimulating discussion.

Blessings, Steven
👍  
properties (23)
post_id39,517,371
authorlastdays
permlinkre-evanprice-re-lastdays-re-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180320t015655364z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-20 01:48:57
last_update2018-03-20 01:48:57
depth3
children3
net_rshares2,555,405,466
last_payout2018-03-27 01:48:57
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length883
author_reputation317,850,004,724
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@gmr1986 ·
I appreciate your thought-provoking article.  I would agree that God predetermining all the outcomes in our life would be taking away our free will, but I don't think most God-fearing people believe that our lives and choices are predetermined.  At least I don't believe that.  I view God as a very wise and loving parent who sees the potential outcomes to the decisions we make, encourages us to make wise decisions, but ultimately allows us to make whatever decisions we choose, for good or bad.  If God loves us (a belief that most God-fearing faiths accept) and had already determined our choices for us, don't you think He would have done a better job steering us clear of the sorrow and misery that we all go through at one point or another?  The reality is that God allows us to make our mistakes so that we can learn and grow and improve.  He'll  encourage us to take a happier path and try to teach us how to get there, but He will never force us down any path against our wills.  So that the consequences of our mistakes don't dog us for eternity, He provided a Savior, Jesus Christ, to make payment for our mistakes and shortcomings, offer healing, and give us the strength to rise above our weaknesses.  It can be difficult to understand God's ways with our limited sight, understanding, and experience (just like it's difficult for most of us to understand quantum physics if we haven't mastered the basics of that field of study), but as we study His words, ponder with an open mind, and desire a greater understanding, our minds can be enlightened and we can feel the truth in our hearts.  It is that feeling, given by the Holy Ghost, that allows us to believe so strongly in something we cannot see and don't fully understand yet.
properties (22)
post_id38,241,836
authorgmr1986
permlinkre-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180312t233431503z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-12 23:32:36
last_update2018-03-12 23:32:36
depth1
children1
net_rshares0
last_payout2018-03-19 23:32:36
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,746
author_reputation0
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@evanprice ·
Well, believing in a "God" period, means you believe in pre-determination, "voluntarily" or not! Because that means you believe there is a being that knows all that was, is and will be.. That means you know that he knows what will happen before it happens. Meaning you don't actually believe in free will. :P

Of course, to us, it **seems** as though we're deciding things.. because we, personally, do not know the outcome.. but we are, in fact, **not** deciding things, **if** "God" exists! You are simply acting as you have been coded to! A computer doesn't know what it's doing, it just does as it was programmed, just like us! Unless you believe in chaos and randomness. But to believe in a "God" would mean that, ultimately, you believe in pre-determination, which trumps free will! :P

Thank you for your input! :) Even if we don't agree or you don't see my point, completely, it's still nice to have some input and I appreciate your participation in the conversation! Sorry for the late reply! :P
properties (22)
post_id39,477,409
authorevanprice
permlinkre-gmr1986-re-evanprice-why-you-don-t-believe-in-free-will-if-you-believe-in-god-religion-you-don-t-20180319t195142642z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["life"]}"
created2018-03-19 19:51:39
last_update2018-03-19 19:51:39
depth2
children0
net_rshares0
last_payout2018-03-26 19:51:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,003
author_reputation605,650,698,207
root_title"Why you don't believe in free will if you believe in God/Religion! You don't..."
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000