RE: Pros and cons of two versions of Steem Proposal System by valued-customer

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· @valued-customer · (edited)
$0.05
I happen to strongly disagree.  I note rewarding curation so as to potentiate focusing on profitability actually inhibits curation that focuses on quality of content.  While I don't have a specific and demonstrable proposal to put forward, I note the gamification of curation has created the extant trending page, which I am confident no one finds optimal.  

Curation rewards may not need to be reduced, but it may also be that curation would be improved were curation rewards eliminated altogether.  I do hope that communities and SMTs will soon enable testing of various parameters so as to generate data and support improving curation to limit the impact of mere profiteering on content generation.  There are various essential social values that aren't adequately superable via the extant curation mechanism, and we need more data before we can determine what precisely those are, and how best to effect them.

Further, values aren't ubiquitous, and no one shares the exact suite of values weighted identically with anyone.  Given how curating content effects societal values, I am sure a spectrum of curative mechanisms will eventually prove optimal.  Society is far more, and more valuable, than finance and economic factors alone.   

Edit: there are accounts on the blockchain that neither post nor comment, but do curate.  Limiting support mechanisms to author rewards alone gives such accounts a free ride.  Since such accounts likely have very little support from the community anyway, taxing the rest of the community going forward greatly increases the relative power such accounts will have in the future.  

Also, some accounts don't upvote at all, and the entirety of their impact on the blockchain is flagging.  I am presently struggling to properly qualify the impact such accounts will have on the kinds of proposals we are considering in these comments, but, unless the inflationary impact of such accounts contribute to such proposals as we eventually adopt, we will financially reward accounts whose only purpose is to effect censorship.

I certainly don't want that, and don't think anyone does.
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vote details (1)
@spectrumecons ·
It comes down to providing the right balance of incentives. At the moment passive income (vote selling, delegating to bots) is higher than contributing to the platform through curation. It is roughly three times higher. Adjusting curation rewards up to somewhere closer to passive income will provide incentive for users to be active. 50/50 split between authors and curators has been suggested. I am not convinced that will be sufficient to pull delegation from bots. I think 75% curation will be effective if combined with several other changes such as separate downvote pool and SBD included in payout to curators. Someone mentioned 100% curation rewards but I believe that would kill the incentive to create content. 

A much higher curation reward will most likely increase the incentive to frontrun bots, thus reducing bot curation rewards. Frontrunners could be earning well over 100% of rewards per vote, which will be higher than any bot could offer. If bots are only getting 2/3 of the curation rewards and offering a positive ROI, they could be earning less than the 75% curation reward. The incentives to operate and delegate to bots will be greatly reduced.

Downvotes would be more effective as well as the downvote will reduce rewards to the curator. Curators are more likely to upvote content they feel will not be downvoted. This is another reason why downvotes should not penalise the downvoter. At the moment downvoting is close to non-existent. If downvotes were free, i.e. separate downvote pool, people would be more likely to use them.

Thanks for your comment. It is good to see another perspective on the matter. I think this response covers your other comment as well.
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vote details (1)
@valued-customer · (edited)
$0.11
Thanks for the substantive reply.

>"Adjusting curation rewards up to somewhere closer to passive income will provide incentive for users to be active."

Mere profiteering isn't the goal of curation.  I see no effective difference between whale votes or bidbot votes if such votes are only the result of profit seeking.  It's rent seeking behaviour, and does not actually curate.  

However, one thing both do is to decrease incentive to create quality content.  In neither rent seeking model discussed is the quality of content even a factor.  Content quality is a huge issue for Steem and investors, however, and our trending page shows how poorly rent seeking performs as an incentive for curation.  

This is why changing the reward level for curation will not improve curation.

In fact, doing as you propose will degrade the quality of posts, and decrease retention even further, by reducing incentive to join and post good content.  

Lastly, none of this actually addresses the fact that funding SPS via donations, or donations and some portion of inflation, will actually create incentive for stake to neither create, curate, nor witness, as all those are incentivized via inflation, and funding via donations alone will not impact that (although stake reponsive only to financial inducements will be unlikely to contribute, thus relatively penalizing donators), while adding funding via inflation will create *negative* incentives for all three compared to accounts that do none of them.

This is why, after reading all comments on this post, I realized that the only reasonable way to fund SPS is via a direct tax on stake itself.  The benefits of SPS will apportion to stake, not rewards.  Taxing rewards decreases incentive to create, curate, and witness, while only indirectly benefiting those that do, and directly benefiting stake.

We should not decrease incentives to contribute positive benefits and attract investment to Steem.  

Further, apportioning funding for SPS on stake not only accurately reflects that the benefits of funding SPS are apportioned to stakeholders, but also gives those stakeholders incentive to closely attend to funding SPS, so that they attain to desired benefits.  It also reflects that VP is directly based on stake, and all polls on budgeting, funding mechanisms, and so forth will be based on stake as a result of VP being based on stake, so the responsibility for the funding, the benefits of the funding, and the authority to do the funding are all equally and perfectly attuned.

No other mechanism neither decreases incentives to effect positive benefits to the blockchain and community, nor increases incentives to do no good for either, and accurately reflects both qui buono and who has authority to decide how funding is effected, while granting investors certainty regarding SPS funding and benefits.

Unless SPS is funded directly based on stake, just as VP is, those that do not create content, curate, or witness will get a free ride on the coattails of those that benefit the community via those mechanisms.

As to curation rewards, profiteering has proven to be a poor selector of content quality, and it is other values, not emunerative potential alone, that should be determining curation incentives.

Thanks!
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vote details (9)
@spectrumecons ·
When I arrived I thought the larger stakeholders would be more focused on contributing to the growth of the platform rather accumulating more coins. It seems that I was partly wrong. Some of the largest stakeholders just want to take as much as possible without contributing anything. Bots have nicely facilitated this greed. This has made it harder for those actively contributing. Many have given up and have delegated to bots. There were problems before bots such as circle jerking, self-voting, voting trails, auto-voting etc. However the community had a way of fighting that through downvotes. Some of those delegating to bots don't post, comment, or vote. They just collect returns. These returns are untouchable. 

I believe SPS is a good idea, users can get paid to work on proposals that benefits everyone without needing to find a direct revenue stream. These payments need to come from somewhere. Donations are too unreliable. It should start off fine but people will eventually drop off. Taking from existing inflation seems like a logical step. Taking from author rewards appears the choice that will do the least damage. This could be supplemented by users using SPS as a beneficiary for posts instead of declining payout. 

I described at the beginning of the comment about stakeholders taking without giving through bots. That is only half the story. Authors choose to pay for votes using their post rewards. If they stopped buying, bots could not earn. Instead, they continue transferring author rewards to bots. Taking a cut from authors is also taking a cut from bots.
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