RE: Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes by samuel-swinton

Viewing a response to: @whatsup/regarding-flags-vs-downvotes

$0.23

I don't like the functionality at all. At its best it is a feature that punishes controversial discussions. At worst, it is a tool for haves to bully the have nots. I understand the motivation but I believe there are large unintended consequences if we aren't careful.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/samuel-swinton)

👍 steembasicincome, shainemata, nathen007

`post_id`	74,022,235
`author`	samuel-swinton
`permlink`	samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t180934667z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"app":"partiko","client":"android"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:09:36
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:09:36
`depth`	1
`children`	26
`net_rshares`	484,251,627,597
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:09:36
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.176 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.057 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	345
`author_reputation`	11,364,636,663,857
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
nathen007	3,158,422,989	100%
steembasicincome	472,029,164,395	54.34%
shainemata	9,064,040,213	50%

@whatsup · May 1 '19

Well as a stakeholder I think it is extremely important we have the ability to fight abuse.  We just have to teach people it is normal to receive flags.

If we have large stakeholders abusing their power that is a different issue which has nothing to do with the UI design.

properties (22)

`post_id`	74,022,313
`author`	whatsup
`permlink`	re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t181114171z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["busy"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:11:18
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:11:18
`depth`	2
`children`	9
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:11:18
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	273
`author_reputation`	404,265,487,362,343
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@samuel-swinton · May 1 '19

$0.23

The same tool that can fight abuse can lead to abuse. In my time using Steem I've received several dollars in down votes for expressing unpopular opinions. 

Down votes are supposed to counter abuse. Despite having this feature, certain individuals earn the largest shares of the rewards pool by making several posts a day containing absolutely zero text. Why do I not mention them by name? I'm concerned about getting singled out by their followers, as I have been in the past.

Right now, the rich abuse the system with impunity because they can down vote you harder than you can down vote them.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/samuel-swinton)

👍 steembasicincome, nathen007

`post_id`	74,023,053
`author`	samuel-swinton
`permlink`	samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t182456106z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"app":"partiko","client":"android"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:24:57
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:24:57
`depth`	3
`children`	7
`net_rshares`	475,145,767,507
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:24:57
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.172 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.057 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	674
`author_reputation`	11,364,636,663,857
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
nathen007	0 B		3,103,520,552	100%
steembasicincome	0 B		472,042,246,955	62.67%

@whatsup · May 1 '19 (edited)

Changing the blockchain rules is not being discussed.  We are discussing how to best communicate how the blockchain works via an Interface.

properties (22)

`post_id`	74,023,191
`author`	whatsup
`permlink`	re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t182742737z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"community":"busy","app":"busy\/2.5.6","format":"markdown","tags":["busy"],"users":[],"links":[]}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:27:45
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:29:18
`depth`	4
`children`	6
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:27:45
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	139
`author_reputation`	404,265,487,362,343
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

6 replies

@nathen007 · May 1 '19

Youre mixing up abuse and opinion which is ecactly the problem this change will exacerbate.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/nathen007)

properties (22)

`post_id`	74,026,200
`author`	nathen007
`permlink`	nathen007-re-whatsup-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t192736662z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"app":"partiko","client":"android"}
`created`	2019-05-01 19:27:36
`last_update`	2019-05-01 19:27:36
`depth`	3
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 19:27:36
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	163
`author_reputation`	62,453,323,633,305
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@inertia · May 1 '19

Unintended consequences can mean anything.

That’s like saying there’s an unintended consequence of restaurants cleaning their dining room, so we shouldn’t clean the dining room.

properties (22)

`post_id`	74,022,374
`author`	inertia
`permlink`	re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t181213255z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["busy"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:12:12
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:12:12
`depth`	2
`children`	14
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:12:12
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	178
`author_reputation`	227,335,189,892,062
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@samuel-swinton · May 1 '19

$0.23

Just because consequence are unintended does not mean they are unimaginable. I have two examples in my comment, after all.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/samuel-swinton)

👍 steembasicincome

`post_id`	74,022,539
`author`	samuel-swinton
`permlink`	samuel-swinton-re-inertia-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t181513294z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"app":"partiko","client":"android"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:15:15
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:15:15
`depth`	3
`children`	13
`net_rshares`	472,008,024,367
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:15:15
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.170 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.057 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	199
`author_reputation`	11,364,636,663,857
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
steembasicincome	0 B		472,008,024,367	60.35%

@inertia · May 1 '19

$0.09

I think the analogy would be, say a restaurant hires a busboy to clean.  But he starts cleaning tables when people are still eating.  This is an improper use of "cleaning."  So the restaurant says, "we don't like the way people are cleaning, so lets get rid of all of the cleaning supplies."  Problem solved?

👍 gentlebot

`post_id`	74,022,667
`author`	inertia
`permlink`	re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-inertia-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t181739594z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["busy"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:17:39
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:17:39
`depth`	4
`children`	5
`net_rshares`	188,332,484,602
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:17:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.067 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.022 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	308
`author_reputation`	227,335,189,892,062
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
gentlebot	0 B		188,332,484,602	15%

5 replies

@josephsavage · May 1 '19

$0.23

The proposed is a UI design change that has no impact on the core functionality of upvotes/downvotes. Can you think of any stakeholder with enough to 'bully the have nots' that doesn't know enough about Steem to deliver downvotes through some other channel than Steemit UI?

👍 steembasicincome, osso

`post_id`	74,023,352
`author`	josephsavage
`permlink`	re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-inertia-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t183015758z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["busy"],"app":"steempeak\/1.9.8"}
`created`	2019-05-01 18:30:15
`last_update`	2019-05-01 18:30:15
`depth`	4
`children`	6
`net_rshares`	472,114,185,183
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 18:30:15
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.170 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.056 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	273
`author_reputation`	28,840,315,031,266
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
steembasicincome	0 B		472,036,342,843	62.39%
osso	0 B		77,842,340	33%

6 replies

@nathen007 · May 1 '19

The most sensible comment of all. THIS is exactly what will happen

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/nathen007)

properties (22)

`post_id`	74,026,149
`author`	nathen007
`permlink`	nathen007-re-samuel-swinton-samuel-swinton-re-whatsup-regarding-flags-vs-downvotes-20190501t192612303z
`category`	busy
`json_metadata`	{"app":"partiko","client":"android"}
`created`	2019-05-01 19:26:12
`last_update`	2019-05-01 19:26:12
`depth`	2
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2019-05-08 19:26:12
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	138
`author_reputation`	62,453,323,633,305
`root_title`	"Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000