ENGAGEMENT GUILD PROPOSAL: User Retention Solution + Watch Video Explanation by stellabelle

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· @stellabelle · (edited)
$15.37
ENGAGEMENT GUILD PROPOSAL: User Retention Solution + Watch Video Explanation
If you'd rather just hear how the Engagement Guild solves the user retention issues, watch me in video form describing it:
_[ignore the high-looking thumbnail image.....I'm going to fix that shortly]_

https://youtu.be/GslH7-_5mng

# I hereby present to you the Engagement Guild Proposal.

### PROBLEM: Users are frustrated that their high engagement posts are not being rewarded. Then they write their _"This Is My Final Post On Steemit"_ and then go back to Facebook/Reddit, etc. where they continue to get engagement.
### SOLUTION: Engagement Guild.

Before I explain how the Engagement Guild will work, I need to illustrate to the Steemit community why it's necessary. Curie and Steem Guild are doing a fine job, and those should remain, but in order to move to the next level, engagement needs to be rewarded. I think we can all agree that social engagement brings value to a network. Social value equals more social engagement, more passion, more web traffic, equals more investors, equals a higher value for Steem. **This is basic 101 social media.**

 Everyone in here currently disagrees with "what is valuable", but fans of a particular person drive engagement, which in turns drives the value of a network up. As a particular person gains more and more engagement, their value goes up. Rewards should organically follow this increased engagement. This is how Steemit can grow organically, and how groups tend to form in all online communities. 

## Groups and content lovers do not need to be picked apart by overlords determining how valuable the content they **love** is. 

People on Steemit are already determining what to engage with. _They are doing so organically_. The comments tell the story. Humans are guided more by emotions and that needs to be the number one priority in Steemit right now. I know everyone will say, "but mainstream!" Well, creating a healthy, well-functioning system that creates happiness is what we need. When we are functioning well, others will take notice. By trying to attract everyone to a place that is not functioning well, we fail. We build upon the basic tenets of creating a system that creates the maximum happiness. The rest will follow. I've done this myself in social media, so I know what I'm talking about. Remember, I am a user. Not a programmer, not a miner, A USER.

(And for all those thinking that I'm trying to create more rewards for myself, you're wrong. I am happy as a creator in Steemit and I don't need to be trending all the time. Once a week would be nice, but every day would feel just wrong. I felt guilty when I did in the past and that affected my feelings about being here, because I knew I did not deserve it. I am building my blog in Steemit as if it were my personal real estate. I am aware that I am a guinea pig and that the devs don't have everything built yet. But I think my solutions should really be considered because I'm one of the very few early adopter users who is still active, very active in here.)

# I now view my successes based on the following metrics:

1. Did I get any new followers today?
2. How many people engaged with my post or read it?

Those are the 2 main things I attribute my personal success to. Steemit should be the same, and follow this.

# Let's take a look at a post that had 86 comments, 179 votes and 161 eyeballs: 
https://steemit.com/steemit/@barrydutton/a-minnow-speaks-my-open-letter-to-the-steemit-community-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly

This post echoes a lot of minnows and it generated a lot of social activity, as clearly indicated by the 161 reads. That is a lot of reading going on. And 86 comments is huge. The reward so far is $2.51. The Engagement Guild would fix this by taking notice of the enormous social engagement that came from this user and giving higher rewards. In the short time I've gotten to know this user, I can sense his overwhelming passion for Steemit. His passion is what attracted me to his blog, and has attracted many others too. When users put forth passion, receive a ton of eyeball views, and a ton of comments, then receive $2.51, the system is not working. This is the kind of thing that frustrates people. I have the solution.

HOW THE ENGAGEMENT GUILD WOULD WORK

1. Posts are compiled by the amount of comments.
2. A group of humans in the form of an Engagement Guild Team would review all the posts with the highest comments and eyeballs (readers). 
3. Having humans review the comment section would get rid of bot and sybil attack problems, since humans can still see what is written by a human and what is written by a bot.
4. Humans would also quickly glance at the type of commenting, and detect fake, superficial comments like "good job! nice post!".

The effect of rewarding _true_ engagement would be as follows:

1. It would make users stay on the platform.
2. It would set an example to other newbies that their hard work in _attracting and engaging_ others will be rewarded.
3. It would entice real bloggers, artists, creators to set up their home in Steemit. 
4. The residual effects would be felt throughout Steemit and the internet. 
5. It would encourage authenticity, creativity, autonomy, and _real_ content.
6. It would encourage people to create content that resonates with others, instead of placating the whims of the whales.

# The residual effect in the future, as we build out communities, is greater autonomy, freedom and happiness.

It is happiness, freedom and engagement that creates real value in life and on the internet. I think we all know this.

I am willing to spearhead this effort and I promise to everyone that I will not abuse this system for my own benefit. In fact, all team members who would be on the Engagement Guild Team would take an oath to not use the voting guild for their own posts. The team members would become a part of the guild organically, as the ones who cultivate and encourage others will become known to the community in an organic fashion. 

Whale Support Is Essential In Moving This Engagement Idea Into Reality. If you are a whale and think this guild would move Steemit in a good direction, please contact me here or in Steemit Chat. Users so far have said they think it's a good idea that  could make a difference.

Let me know what you think. 

Thanks for your attention,
Stellabelle

By the way, I have created a group in Facebook called **STEEMIT NEWBIES**. It's a help page, designed to answer questions from users who are very new to Steemit: https://www.facebook.com/steemitnewbies

It's a place where people can get actual help in the form of a person answering very specific questions about Steemit. It's part of my Operation Newbies series of projects. I'll make a post about this seperately.

Facebook, Medium, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter...those are my stomping grounds, so it makes sense to set up Steemit Newbies groups in those platforms in order to siphon off and help people who are trying to transition to Steemit.
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@lifeworship ·
I think it would work. I value an active comment section on my posts more than money. If I had that and was rewarded for it too, I wouldn't have time to worry about content wars.

Great idea, thank you.
👍  
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@stellabelle ·
I'm definitely not alone and being primarily a creator seeking autonomy, this idea would solve many issues. Creators are seeking autonomy. That is where the the most pain lies....
👍  
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@stellabelle ·
yeah, active and healthy comments mean that you're actually making a difference somehow.
👍  
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@barrydutton ·
Amen
👍  
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@reddyyeswanth ·
Nice article..
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@stellabelle ·
do you think it would make a difference?
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@barrydutton ·
Shocker, maybe that was a bot 

LOL!!!
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@seablue ·
I have enjoyed sharing your epiphanous video.  When the inspiration strikes, the message must be spread.  Serendipity and synchronicity.
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@stellabelle ·
Well, exactly! I had to capture the zeal, the passion! That's the only thing that change anything, especially when it has to do with the future.....
👍  
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@fulltimegeek ·
http://www.bloggingwizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/reader-engagement-meme.jpg
👍  
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@stellabelle ·
yeah.....what do you think about it?????????
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@fulltimegeek ·
I'm all for this idea. I'm always trying to solicit replies from Steemians no matter if they're minnows or whales. They're all equal to me. A human is a human no matter how much STEEM they have. The more people we have curating on Steemit and not bots the more valuable this platform becomes.
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@fulltimegeek · (edited)
> When users put forth passion, receive a ton of eyeball views, and a ton of comments, then receive $2.51, the system is not working. This is the kind of thing that frustrates people. I have the solution.

Agree 100%. Barry deserved more than just ~3 bucks for a post with so much activity. I have noticed his passion for Steemit and would love to see him better rewarded for it. 

p.s. And of course others that can engage the community as much as he did.
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@barrydutton ·
LOL.
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@donkeypong ·
Engagement is very important. The existing guilds look for engagement in the posts and will do so more once the comment rewards proposal is implemented.
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@stellabelle · (edited)
The comment rewards proposal is good, and a step in the right direction. The missing piece, however, is creating _and maintaining_ autonomous creators and rewarding those who drive discussion and engage others. The Engagement Guild does this exact thing. Or, the possibility of an algorithm identifying social energy in the form of human comments, that's the other way that would not require a guild to be formed.
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@snowflake ·
Comment rewards is a good idea but devs need to be careful to not reduce curation rewards % as this is currently the main reason why people are buying steem power. I think this percentage is too low even now.
👍  
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@donkeypong ·
I don't think you need a guild for this; I think you need to work with the design of the upcoming Communities and see if these can be tweaked to meet your preferences.
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@stellabelle ·
Actually, I submitted Barry's post, the same one I referenced above into the #curie channel and I was told it did not meet the requirements, but was told that he would see what he could do.
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@barrydutton ·
I vote for the #curie posts every day lol
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@donkeypong · (edited)
If it was the post I'm thinking of, I thought it was a great analysis and discussion. But the curation projects have guidelines that forbid voting on most Steemit-related posts, since our large accountholders' opinions are watched closely. If we put their names on something that has even a shred of a proposal or controversial opinion, then it looks like they're supporting it and that's trouble for everyone, including us. Not our place to make such votes. There is enough other content from diverse areas to support with those votes. Fortunately, controversial and Steemit-related posts generally get plenty of views from everyone, whales included, so they can decide what they want to vote on or not.
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@steemtrail ·
$1.16
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👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 96 others
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vote details (160)
@stellabelle ·
thanks
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@barrydutton ·
Not to beat a dead horse but kinda proves your point and a lot of what others are saying -- you have nearly 400 votes, 47 comments and counting and this is only worth $5.55 and people have reblogged this.  

And this is only up  2 hrs now as I write this.
👍  
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@lemouth · (edited)
$0.06
Good point!

There are many informative posts on steemit (with very few comments in general) that are very good. Those are usually noticed by the existing guilds. 

On the other hand, you propose to create a guild that takes care of a second set of posts that trigger discussions and interactions. I think this is very complementary to what we already have as those are not necessarily within the existing guild area of action, and thus something possibly cool to see implemented.

Let's see where it goes!
👍  
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@stellabelle ·
Yes, that is exactly what I'm proposing! It's an area that still needs to be rewarded....
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@lemouth ·
(just to say I was agreeing with you... nothing more ;) )
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@instructor2121 ·
Very good initiative @stellabelle. We need more of these on the platform, and more users taking lead to get things off the ground. SteemTrail has been building its framework and communities since September and would like to offer any assistance or guidance to this guild. Let me know if you would like to chat about this, i have a lot i can share.
👍  
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@stellabelle ·
first thing needs to happen is getting whale support for the idea. If I was a whale, I'd just use my own SP to get this thing going, but that's not the case, so whale support is absolutely essential.
👍  
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@barrydutton ·
Agreed.  I know you would.
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@dennygalindo ·
Why not post a daily top five thought provoking well commented post like dragonslayer used to do. Then at least the minnows can support it and maybe the whales will notice with a. More tangible example of how it might work.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@charlie777pt · (edited)
Very good post clearing the horizon for guilds strategy and showing how we can act now to build steemit future.
I don't resist putting a quote I made for my next post, about concrete actions to improve the guilds
*The future is dealing with the problems and errors we made in the past, turning the past into a consequence determined by the future.*
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@stellabelle ·
very nice quote! I like it. I'm still gnawing on that last bit....
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@stellabelle ·
how is the past a consequence of the future? Oh never mind, I just got it while i was typing this
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@charlie777pt ·
Thanks:) and congratulations on streemtrail award.  It was a very good boom in my motivation to write good content.
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@stellabelle ·
wait, isn't the future the consequence of the past's errors?
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@charlie777pt ·
For me now I'm dealing with the errors I made in the past, so that's why I said that the past is a consequence of my future (that I couldn't predict), that's how the past takes shape and meaning :)
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@krnel · (edited)
$0.14
This is a real solution! Good job. Just like @krystle who did [a post](https://steemit.com/steemit/@krystle/incentivising-comments-on-steemit-with-a-new-display-option) on adding a comment tab  that would actually drive human consciousness engagement.

The new reward pool will cut the bot economy in two and drive bots to the other economy, duplicating the root causal issue on Steemit of a lack of human consciousness that is the only thing that can actually engage in attention and comment/reward actual comments. Attention requires consciousness. We need to deal with the real issue, not just replicate the problem into another area.

Making a comment tab would be great. A way to find comments is needed. And now just today, we have notifications enabled through Google chrome when someone replies to your post or comment. This is a great step forward! 

Being able to follow posts is a [feature I requested on github](https://github.com/steemit/steemit.com/issues/679), so that new comments on a post you like can be sent as notifications as well and that will greatly drive interactivity on content.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@stellabelle · (edited)
I feel very strongly that this solution solves a lot of frustration. If you have any weight or influence on whales, please give this to them. Out of all the ideas and solutions I've created, it is this one that I feel really could affect people in a tremendous way and move things forward positively.

# Thank you for you supporting my idea.
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@stellabelle · (edited)
what did you mean "drive bots to the other economy"? What other economy is it?
I'm just not exactly clear on this.
Actually, bots in Steemit will need to become AI because human social energy will become the new metric instead of following one particular user, so the abilities of the bots will need to upped.
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@krnel ·
A comments reward pool cuts the bot income, so it drive them into a new marketplace, the new economy, not just the post reward pool. It just duplicates the issue without dealing with the root cause. I'll make a post on the comment reward pool that I have already objected to as a "solution" in my review of the proposals.
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@barrydutton ·
$0.02
You have been on this  cause for awhile now @krnel many people will testify.   +1 

And I got a post out today about the new notifications feature  in the last cpl. hours if you want to reblog it
👍  
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vote details (1)
@krnel ·
$0.05
Yup, well stellabelle's post motivated me to finally talk about it again. It's an issue that needs to be understood more deeply.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@dennygalindo · (edited)
Outstanding idea. Paired with the separate payoit for comments  this could get engagement going. I still wish comments got a higher percent of rewards. Is this coming or is it just perpetually discussed? I can never remember. 

Anyhow This engagement guild Is a great idea. I wish it was there for the summer sign ups.
👍  , ,
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@stellabelle ·
the new rewards for comments are coming as i understand it.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@barrydutton ·
Yes, agreed.
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@ervin-lemark · (edited)
Two questions (I didn't watch the video yet. Excuse my ignorance if the questions are answered there):
1. How will the posts, acknowledged by this guild, be rewarded?
1. Will you use existing detection systems like @screenname's for example.

Sometimes I think that I am a collector of messages like this one:
> This post has been ranked within the top 80 most undervalued posts in the first half of Jan 18...

:)

Anyways, a great initiative. Roadmap here or there or everywhere, two biggest Steemit issues from the start until today still remain:

1. centralization of power
1. invisibility of quality content

Your idea addresses issue #2.
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@stellabelle · (edited)
> How will the posts, acknowledged by this guild, be rewarded?

Posts will be sorted by the amount of comments they receive. A simple program can do this. From highest to lowest.
Then, the next step would be a human Engagement Team to look through say the top 50 or so highest engagement posts. People looking at the comments to make sure they are from humans, not bots. If a post has a bunch of bot comments, then they are scrapped from the High Engagement list. Also, if there are a bunch of fake comments, like "good job sir", those won't really count either. Long form, real human comments will be the indicator and that's why a human team of engagement specialists will be necessary in order for this success. 
Think of this phase as training wheels. Once the way of engagement is established and people know what pays, then they will not try to game the system because there will be no reward for it. Humans still need jobs, and work within any automated system to ensure that the proper metrics are being rewarded.

A whale or whales SP would need to be utilized in order for this to become a reality....
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@ervin-lemark · (edited)
Yes, overlord's SP for a substantial reward :)

Part of checking the comments can be done by bots. You know, bots controlling bots ... Like producing a validity score for human comment to filter out obvious bots' generated comments.
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@barrydutton ·
$0.32
Hey you.  

Thanks for the mention and example of what you want to see.  And why.  

I have had similar ideas kicked around for many weeks now on here, here and there and with people by PM and email, and this is the latest example of you and I being on literally the same page with things.  

I like many others have had many posts with a ton of ENGAGEMENT and comments, and that is what creates value for me, as I have said many many times to you and others. 

### Votes and Views = Value for me   -

I have literally said using that phrase many times so people will have something easy to coin as a phrase.  

Curating a lot of comments, takes work.  And that is part of the CURATION process that largely goes unrewarded and unappreciated.  

It is  true, that is why I wrote that post I did you included here -- I am not the only one who feels the way I wrote about and the comments reflect that.

I am a REGULAR person like you -- not an IT or tech guy.  I never will be -- I have 0 interest in that side of life.  I just want something to work -- I do not need to be the guy to make it or fix it.  I've said many times, no interest in that side of life, none, zero.  That's  not where my giftings lie or my interests and it is not going to change much.  I know that.  And that is OK.  

I am just one person, that has had a ton of low paying posts while others trend every day like many of us have said like you have here and frankly, it gets old once you see the same names over and over and realize something is broken in the system.  It is NOT just because the rest of us "should make better content" - that is the cop out some will use.  

I see a ton of good content going unrewarded daily.  

That is why daily I try and pick new people to support, with messages and votes and comments.  I believe people like you did that for me when I started and so I shall do the same for other noobs,  maybe not you specifically but I mean other   #SteemitElders

### The Cycle of Life on the Steemit. 

Once a post hits (pick a number that makes sense.... 25?  35? comments) -- it should be picked up, curated, rewarded and followed and I guess, checked by your definition.  

It is very frustrating like my post you embedded here says -- posts that we work hard on -- ENGAGE (curate) -- and boom, nothing while other questionable posts and practices continue to get rewarded.

Just because some of us are not the tech person / IT type, or a professional blogger online does not mean our content is not worth something.  

Everyone's time is worth something and the metrics here are off.  I said it clearly in my post you embedded here of mine.

#### Thanks for caring and trying to help.  

----
## I appreciate you.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@stellabelle · (edited)
you brought up a good idea: program a bot to pick up active user engagement: 
>25? 35? comments) -- it should be picked up, curated, rewarded

A bot could be programmed to do exactly this. After the bot picks up human engagement signs, like maybe 25 comments, it's put into a list that is reviewed by real humans to determine if it's bot-generated comments or real geniune human comments. At that point, it enters a waiting line and at the end of the day, these posts are upvoted by a whale account.
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@barrydutton ·
Exactly
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@barrydutton ·
$0.05
# Furthermore, I declare this post 

## -Resteemed
👍  
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@stellabelle · (edited)
ha ha!!!! You're an example of a great social media user, and someone with whom I can really identify.
👍  
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@stellabelle ·
there! I just threw 5 cents at your comment.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@barrydutton ·
If I had a dime for every...

Oh wait.

Thanks to your 2 votes today here I DO have a dime of fiat backed, fractional-reserved currency lol!

And thanks, I know it is funny but it is your thought that counts.  Appreciated.  

----

http://i.imgur.com/fjaCP7V.jpg

----
# #MinnowLife
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@barrydutton ·
and also, I started a Noob FB group many months ago -- you can type in Steemit 101 and it is there, - I have kept the post promotion out and too many groups, dilute and confuse things but I am glad you started one also 

I opted not to put this in my main post reply to you, to avoid other info in the reply content.
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@ebryans ·
@stellabelle, Great ideas and I seriously do hope that they work! An engagement guild makes this Social Media! Rather than Game Theory. Thank you!
May I suggest that on its own, the guild is great but insufficient? I asked you the other day about a centralisation of some of the really good ideas ... do you have any thoughts about that?
In addition, may I remind you of our tit-for-tat over Aleppo? I do not mean to be contrary here but it is what it is.
Though my content was accurate and showed you to have been misled, I got 40 votes across 3 posts to your 230 odd - quality and painstaking research. You did not vote for my work. I do not understand how you can be so passionate about this and yet you do not do what you are suggesting.
I take great pride in my integrity of work.
I do believe that you have a terrific idea but there needs to be a bigger thing here. Curie and Tribune for under 60. 50, 40 SP
A minnow's progression metric
Many ideas which will assist.
Please do not take umbrage at my Aleppo comments - it is better to use us as the examples than others! The point is that I would like to see social media here and not tomato ketchup recipes which get 130 votes before they can be read, realistically!
Again, an engagement guild is a cracking good idea.
I am sure that a rewards dynamic can be arranged, though the github list looks as long as a long thing!
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@james-show · (edited)
"Total and utter nonsense!
As I have said many times, all things around here should be determined by the voting power of those who hold the voting power. 
WE designed it that way, we gave said power to ourselves (and friends)! And so it should be that way! Also we are selling bits of that power for money so everybody is free to buy some (and pay a unjust amounts for what we rewarded ourselves)"
Engagement, mingagement BS...hmmm.

/s
👍  
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@ebryans ·
Then don't pretend that it is social media.
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@james-show ·
Why?
Do you see any other ways to present it? More profitable ways, I mean?
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@screenname ·
Re: ENGAGEMENT GUILD PROPOSAL: User Retention Solution + Watch Video Explanation
<p>This post has been ranked within the top 10 most undervalued posts in the second half of Jan 19. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $42.60 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.</p> 
<p>See the full rankings and details in <a href="https://steemit.com/curation/@screenname/the-daily-tribune-most-undervalued-posts-of-jan-19---part-ii">The Daily Tribune: Jan 19 - Part II</a>. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in <a href="https://steemit.com/curation/@screenname/introducing-the-daily-tribune-most-undervalued-posts-of-nov-04---part-i">our initial post</a>.</p>
<p>If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.</p>
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@gonzo ·
@stellabelle
I would like to see more engagement on the Steemit too. 
If this is a non-profit guild, then I would like to help in any way I can.
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@justtryme90 ·
This seems like a wonderful project @stellabelle and will be a great complement to curie and steem guild. Those projects have particular guidelines which curators follow, but here your guideline is purely views, so you could help out the people who are falling through the cracks of the guidelines of the other two prominent curation projects!
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@stellabelle ·
Exactly, I conceived of it as a complimentary thing, and with time, there would hopefully be no need for it. It's to catch authors who have high engagement and low payout.
👍  
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@justtryme90 ·
It sounds great to me!  I think that is the goal of all curation efforts, keep them going until they are no longer needed. As distribution slowly evens out rewards will get progressively more even. :D
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@thecryptofiend ·
I like the idea.

>Humans would also quickly glance at the type of commenting, and detect fake, superficial comments like "good job! nice post!".

I make comments like that quite often and they are neither fake nor superficial.  Sometimes you want to tell someone you enjoyed the post and you don't really have anything further to add.  That doesn't mean the comment is any less valid.
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@stellabelle ·
what i meant by that is, if the system is trying to be gamed with a lot of short, fake comments that are just generated  by either bots or armies of people trying to create the appearance of engagement.
👍  
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@thecryptofiend ·
I'm sure there would be a way to test if a bot is just repeatedly making the same comment using some kind of automated analysis - I doubt they vary what they say.
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@funnyman ·
Great idea! Also I think it would be easy to implement!
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@stellabelle ·
yeah, met too........Now, for some whale supports.
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@rschenk ·
Nice! Some great ideas!
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