RE: What Is Financial Value? by saphircrane

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· @saphircrane ·
"Governments create weapons of mass destruction, not free markets."
 See, it is not about government vs. free market. The concept of a free market is utopian as socialism is, it never existed. And if it would exist, you would not want it because it would mean anarchy, and you and your family would not go through anarchy unharmed (under the condition that people are selfish). There is a reason why governments exist. Therefore, I cannot understand this government vs. free market argument. It is for me more a reflection of the deep conditioning in american culture, that the market is somehting religious that does not fail and societal structures -- as governments -- are seen as something unnatural.
Weapons of mass destruction are build by private companies. If there would not be a US-government that would buy these weapons there would be other governments. There would be always a government, even if it calls itself a corporation. Because the directors boards of corporations are nothing else as small governments -- and not even democratic ones.
 Further, I do not see selling drugs as evil -- because for me there is no good or evil. I see it as a waste of human potential. When you think in economic terms, selling drugs reduces the overall welfare, because people get ruined and all the capital invested in them evaporates. 
"From my perspective, you're looking at the systems caused by governments"
No. The corrupted system we are living in is caused by normal market mechanisms -- emergence of oligopolies and monopolies. These can only be smashed by governments (or better said, by the society, aggregating their power to destroy parasitic structures that decrease the overall welfare). 
I was not blaming anything on money. I only said that money acts as a mirror. If kids do not understand, what the mirror reflects, it is not good for the society. This mirror these days reflect no societal value anymore, that was the point. Overall the concept of solidarity is more important, because teaching solidarity leads to a society that has higher moral standards and will not corrupt in the way a society will, that is too much focused on tokens and loses the concept behind them.
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@lukestokes ·
I hope you get a chance to read through my post on anarchy which I linked to in my previous comment. I have a completely different world view from you about that word. If you're interested in understanding more about this beyond what I've written there, I can provide multiple books, lectures, etc, but my hunch is that would all be a bit much for you at this point.

Maybe instead we'll just continue building a voluntary society without violent government and when it's done you can see it for yourself to believe it. :)
👍  
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@saphircrane · (edited)
Thank you very much, you are very kind! :-)
"I have a completely different world view from you about that word." I know, I come from a complete different point of view than the steemit community originates from. I have lived in a socialist state and it was way better than everything that capitalist society have ever reached yet. This is why I have not also a different idea about what free market economies are but also what anarchy is. For me the manifestation of anarcho capitalism or properiterian anarchism is the first step in a transformation of american society to become fascist. There were also concepts of anarcho-nationalism in Italy in the 1920s which transformed into fascism. The problem with american thinking is the same as every culture goes through, before groundbreaking paradigm shifts. Cultures increase their levels of ideological radicalization. This ideological radicalization is driven by the ideas that are the foundations of the thinking. As Germany has to go through this hurtfull process, also the US have to go through this.

There are many lies about how real existing socialism really was, therefore I am always a bit sceptical about some anarcho capitalist approaches -- also because capitalism and anarchy contradict each other. Because to extract capital from others (in the way capital was defined by Marx) is a complete contradiction to anarchy. However, I will always support the competition of ideas -- and perhaps I am wrong because lack of knowledge as we all are. Have a great day!
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@lukestokes ·
Which country did you live in, if you don't mind me asking? Often the meme that gets spread around is people building rafts out of trash to try and escape socialist countries (and the dictator regimes that are usually created by them). Your points are accurate about the dangers of nationalism and the concerns over the spread of fascism. Anarchy means "without rulers" and real anarcho-capitalists I interact with want nothing to do with nationalism or anything that would create a ruler. Fascism, from my understanding, requires the use of force provided by the government monopoly on force. Modern anarcho capitalists respect the NAP (non-aggression principle) and reject all actions which would violate it. A simple <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I">8 minute video</a> explains why property is valid and an extension of owning myself in the past.

I really appreciate how you are open to opposing ideas. I think that is a beautiful thing. I've spent many, many hours in the ancom vs. ancap Facebook debate group to form my current views, but I too am open to adjusting them or being flat out wrong.
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