RE: Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!! by goldgoatsnguns

Viewing a response to: @stephenkendal/bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas

investors-group · @goldgoatsnguns · Dec 6 '17

$0.77

Being cash-settled contracts they have zero relation to the underlying asset, in this case, Bitcoin and are no different than a forex broker's Contract For Difference.  

You may as well call them On-Exchange-Betting, because that's what they are.,

I go into more detail in this post.
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@goldgoatsnguns/bitcoin-futures-and-the-need-for-control

In short, @stevenkendal I agree with you completely... these are a joke that have the potential to do real damage to the price discovery system of Bitcoin.

👍 stephenkendal, goldgoatsnguns, rmaxhuni

`post_id`	19,654,258
`author`	goldgoatsnguns
`permlink`	re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t203420090z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "users": ["stevenkendal"], "links": ["https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@goldgoatsnguns/bitcoin-futures-and-the-need-for-control"], "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 20:34:18
`last_update`	2017-12-06 20:34:18
`depth`	1
`children`	9
`net_rshares`	213,164,479,869
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 20:34:18
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.584 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.190 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	527
`author_reputation`	8,149,127,469,020
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
stephenkendal	183,963,279,914	17%
goldgoatsnguns	26,919,593,935	100%
rmaxhuni	2,281,606,020	100%

@rawdawg · Dec 6 '17 (edited)

They are cash settled off a BTC index which is based on multiple different exchanges BTC prices.

👍 rmaxhuni

`post_id`	19,655,338
`author`	rawdawg
`permlink`	re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t205156156z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 20:51:54
`last_update`	2017-12-06 20:52:09
`depth`	2
`children`	2
`net_rshares`	2,236,868,647
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 20:51:54
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	96
`author_reputation`	10,051,299,692,256
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
rmaxhuni	0 B		2,236,868,647	100%

@goldgoatsnguns · Dec 6 '17

$0.42

So what?  They are still cash-settled... and there is an infinite supply of dollars and a finite number of bitcoin.

👍 stephenkendal, goldgoatsnguns

`post_id`	19,656,642
`author`	goldgoatsnguns
`permlink`	re-rawdawg-re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t211305560z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 21:13:03
`last_update`	2017-12-06 21:13:03
`depth`	3
`children`	1
`net_rshares`	116,658,597,035
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 21:13:03
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.318 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.103 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	115
`author_reputation`	8,149,127,469,020
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
stephenkendal	0 B		88,574,912,551	8%
goldgoatsnguns	0 B		28,083,684,484	100%

@rawdawg · Dec 6 '17

"Being cash-settled contracts they have zero relation to the underlying asset"

100% incorrect statement

👍 rmaxhuni, uvas

`post_id`	19,657,020
`author`	rawdawg
`permlink`	re-goldgoatsnguns-re-rawdawg-re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t212006243z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 21:20:06
`last_update`	2017-12-06 21:20:06
`depth`	4
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	4,198,604,362
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 21:20:06
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	104
`author_reputation`	10,051,299,692,256
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
uvas	0 B		2,006,473,088	100%
rmaxhuni	0 B		2,192,131,274	100%

@rawdawg · Dec 6 '17

*The SEC fast-tracked approval, because, what the big banks want the big banks get. This is called ‘regulatory capture’ for short. Trading is due to begin on December 18th.*

You might want to correct your article. BTC Futures are regulated by the CFTC and that is who did the approval for the futures products that are going to be listed Mid December.

SEC would be the one to approve BTC FUTURES ETF. . .SEC regulates securities products, not futures.

properties (22)

`post_id`	19,655,723
`author`	rawdawg
`permlink`	re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t205850249z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 20:58:51
`last_update`	2017-12-06 20:58:51
`depth`	2
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 20:58:51
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	453
`author_reputation`	10,051,299,692,256
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@rawdawg · Dec 6 '17 (edited)

Another incorrect statement in your post, "*By contrast, a cash-settled contract is, in effect, no different than a CFD offered by a forex broker. A CFD is a contract for difference which are simply bets on the price, really no different than betting on a football game or who will win the election. It is a pure derivative of the underlying asset and has no relation whatsoever to the trading behavior of the asset itself.*"

Cash settled futures products are used to hedge AND speculate everyday. Emini S&P futures being the biggest one. Used all the time by banking institutions, hedge funds, etc. to hedge their broad market exposure.

properties (22)

`post_id`	19,656,115
`author`	rawdawg
`permlink`	re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t210451258z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 21:04:51
`last_update`	2017-12-06 21:05:30
`depth`	2
`children`	2
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 21:04:51
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	638
`author_reputation`	10,051,299,692,256
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@goldgoatsnguns · Dec 6 '17

$0.43

they are still spec bets not actual futures contracts.

👍 stephenkendal, goldgoatsnguns, rmaxhuni

`post_id`	19,656,673
`author`	goldgoatsnguns
`permlink`	re-rawdawg-re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t211338376z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 21:13:36
`last_update`	2017-12-06 21:13:36
`depth`	3
`children`	1
`net_rshares`	119,388,036,210
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 21:13:36
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.328 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.104 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	54
`author_reputation`	8,149,127,469,020
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
stephenkendal	88,574,912,551	8%
goldgoatsnguns	28,665,729,758	100%
rmaxhuni	2,147,393,901	100%

@rawdawg · Dec 6 '17

So the Emini S&P Futures are not actual futures? 

Just because they are not deliverable commodity futures doesn't mean they aren't futures. 

Please don't tell me that you think the Emini S&P futures are not actual futures because they settle in cash.

properties (22)

`post_id`	19,656,957
`author`	rawdawg
`permlink`	re-goldgoatsnguns-re-rawdawg-re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t211900529z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 21:19:00
`last_update`	2017-12-06 21:19:00
`depth`	4
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 21:19:00
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	252
`author_reputation`	10,051,299,692,256
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000

@stephenkendal · Dec 6 '17

$0.13

>Being cash-settled contracts they have zero relation to the underlying asset

Like I said, "Bitcoin Bananas" will be term that people will soon use for these totally worthless Contracts..!! Stephen

👍 etcmike, rmaxhuni

`post_id`	19,658,397
`author`	stephenkendal
`permlink`	re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t214513528z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 21:45:15
`last_update`	2017-12-06 21:45:15
`depth`	2
`children`	1
`net_rshares`	35,196,100,621
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 21:45:15
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.097 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.029 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	198
`author_reputation`	748,935,547,503,457
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
etcmike	0 B		33,093,444,093	5%
rmaxhuni	0 B		2,102,656,528	100%

@rawdawg · Dec 6 '17

Its obvious you are a salesman which is fine. I respect salesman and more money has been made on WallStreet from salespeople than trading. But if you are going to support someone who is also providing incorrect info, I can't respect that. These discussions are not up for opinion as they are based in facts, which I outlined.

properties (22)

`post_id`	19,659,588
`author`	rawdawg
`permlink`	re-stephenkendal-re-goldgoatsnguns-re-stephenkendal-bitcoin-futures-are-a-total-joke-they-may-as-well-call-them-bitcoin-bananas-20171206t221637305z
`category`	investors-group
`json_metadata`	"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["investors-group"]}"
`created`	2017-12-06 22:06:18
`last_update`	2017-12-06 22:06:18
`depth`	3
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2017-12-13 22:06:18
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	325
`author_reputation`	10,051,299,692,256
`root_title`	"Bitcoin Futures are a total joke. They may as well call them "Bitcoin Bananas"..!!"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000