RE: #ThreeFavorites 🌀 Sports by creatr

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· @creatr ·
I may not wing suit in this lifetime, but fully intend to do so in the future Kingdom of God. That, and surf 100' waves... and probably try that freefall catch thing too. :) All by the kindness of Messiah. ;) 😄😇😄
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@inphiknit ·
I wonder if we'd still have those kinds of desires in *Olam Haba...?*
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@creatr ·
Hello, my friend @inphiknit! Why do you wonder such a thing?

You don't think the LORD is some kind of cheat, do you? Of course not.
>*"You open your hand;
    you satisfy the desire of every living thing."* - [**Psalm 145:16**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+145:16&version=ESV)

I do not believe that the LORD would give us *patently good* desires in *HaOlam HaZeh,*  promise to fulfill them, and then pull a "bait and switch" on us. ;)
>*"Delight yourself in the Lord,
    and he will give you the desires of your heart."* - [**Psalm 37:4**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+37:4&version=ESV)

That is my considered opinion after a lifetime of meditating on the scriptures. Your mileage may vary, but I delight in discussing these matters with you!
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@inphiknit · (edited)
You're right! Of course not! But notice the word *living* and the word *heart* in each verse respectively. (You'd really dig Torah study, looking deeply into each word, even which letters are used in it...)

Perhaps if I asked the question differently too... In the as "compete as possible" closeness with HaShem, how long would it take for me to desire anything physical? 

We also learn that the majority of the "reward" for a physical deed/desire occurs in the physical, and those which are spiritual, (though they occurred in the physical,) in the spiritual realm. Also, since the "reward" for one single, properly done fulfillment of the law, is greater than all the joy, had by all people ever, were it felt in 1 instant, we cannot compute how elevated will be the state of a person in Olam Haba. To my mind, it seems like a wingsuit or anything on that level would become irrelevant. (Though I imagine that HaShem would allow it, were such a desire to survive?) You can read about this in *Pirkei Avot,* "The Ethics of Our Fathers." And this is a major discussion topic in various contexts throughout the *Mishnah* and *Talmud,* despite what people think about them...

You might find some of these links interesting. 

https://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pirkei+avot+reward+in+olam+haba%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=t5O3WK3ADayC8Qf_n4egBA#q=pirkei+avot+reward+in+olam+haba&*
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@creatr ·
Friend @inphiknit,

First, thank you for your kind interaction, and for suggesting a look into *Pirkei Avot,* with which I am not yet familiar. I will have a look, time permitting. And you are completely correct, I *do* "dig" Torah study, and I *have* appreciated your articles in which you have brought certain fascinating details and observations to light. But now to comment on your response.
>*"...the "reward" for one single, properly done fulfillment of the law, is greater than all the joy, had by all people ever, were it felt in 1 instant..."*

But, how could this ever be, considering that David has said that [**not one of us is good?**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+14%3A1-Psalm+14%3A3%2CPsalm+53%3A1-Psalm+53%3A3&version=ESV) And even Job was unable to stand before the LORD despite his best efforts.
>*"But notice the word **living** and the word **heart** in each verse respectively... We also learn that the majority of the "reward" for a physical deed/desire occurs in the physical, and those which are spiritual, (though they occurred in the physical,) in the spiritual realm."*

Is not HaShem the Creator of our *lives* and our *hearts,* our physical natures? Did not [**Job**]() and [**Daniel**]() expect to be *raised* from dust to a *physical* life?

And did not the LORD say, through the prophet Isaiah,
>*"But be glad and rejoice forever
    in **that which I create;**
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,
    and her people to be a gladness."* - [**Isaiah 65:18**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+65:18&version=ESV)

I am now by God's kindness a *grandfather,* having raised children and now grandchildren. The way I contemplate God's words here in Isaiah is thus:

When I give my children gifts at Christmas or birthdays, how would I feel if, after opening a lavish gift, perhaps something I fashioned for *them* with my own hand - how would I *feel* if they set the gift aside and simply gazed into my face with wonder and love, never enjoying the gift?

Surely, I treasure their love and I delight in it; but I also love them and wish for them to *enjoy* what I've done and made for them.

In like manner, I believe that HaShem has created a glorious playground for us, and turned us loose in it. I also believe that *Olam Haba* will also be a *physical* world, an even *more* glorious playground, and that a great deal of our perfect closeness with HaShem will consist of *enjoying* his good gifts. I think a better translation of the prophet might well be *"But be glad and **enjoy** what I've made for you, forever!"*

Of course, my friend, if you have read my writings, you know by now that I am a believer in Yeshua, that I have concluded that he is in all truth the messenger of the covenant, Messiah, HaShem become a real, physical man. He of course referred to himself as *the* son of man, which if I understand a little bit of Hebrew idiom, has the strong sense of being "The Man," i.e. the one man among men that we would all want to be. In our English slang/vernacular, we might say of Jesus, "You 'da *MAN.*"

I mention all this simply because I wish to be completely transparent with you about my own beliefs and understandings. I hope you can sense that I truly appreciate you and the opportunity to discuss scripture with you. :)
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@inphiknit ·
Likewise I'm very appreciative and enjoy our discussions too :)

And upon rereading what I wrote, I see that I poorly phrased the idea that you'd love Torah study. I didn't mean to imply that you did not already study, or study at all, rather I was referring to the method(s) taught by the Rabbis. (Which I'm still learning too of course.) So I apologize. 

I don't feel that the fact that not one of us is *totally* good would nullify the rights of those who perform even a single righteous act, and where the reward for which cannot (with a couple caveats) be received here. *Pirkei Avot* shows this by literally forcing one to meditate/scrutinize through (some version of) the question; "how can I compare a spiritual reward to anything physical?" As one proceeds, it expands a kind of memory of a physical sensation, larger than he's ever felt it, then in a way, crushes it to a tiny point, with 1 key, sudden idea. G-d willing, one catches a glimpse of this *other level* of enjoyment/existence. Hard to explain... (Of course unlike my less than perfect memory, it references everything to the Torah too.) It also walks you through a *process* to *realize* both how good one is/can be, and how bad one is/can be. Taken together, this *actually* helps *build* the desire to do good, and gives one a picture of "where" he is now.

Regarding Olam Haba, it kinda depends which definition/time we're looking at. So, the Rabbis teach (and again, this late, I don't have the sources handy,) that there will be a physical period of 1000 years, from the year 6000 to 7000. (We're in 5777 today.) This is the time for resurrection of those whom He chooses. The Mashiach is here, there is total peace, everyone *understands and knows* G-d, Temple is rebuilt, we all *actually* love and serve each other, and see our unity through HaShem, etc. Beyond this period, and for the departed in the meantime (if not being reincarnated,) we also refer to the entire afterlife as Olam Haba. This includes for most of us, a temporary stay for purification in gehinom, then some degree of elevation into the levels of Gan Edan. It's so hard to understand this stuff today, being that we are so physically bound and minded. And since I'm no expert, I shouldn't speak much more without sources in hand/mind. Everything I've said so far you can easily see online. But I guess I'd say that if this 1000 year period before Gan Edan is actually physical, it would be then that you'd wingsuit?! 

But even this I doubt. Your analogy with your shared creation and your grandchildren is perfect. The Creator has given us many ways to play, study, learn, grow, fail, etc. If suddenly I use those tools to their true purpose and to the point that I now clearly see, appreciate and love their Creator, why do I ever look "back?", since through Him, everything is One, and (G-d Willing) I finally *know* it, and act accordingly? I say "true purpose of the tools" because everything physical, has a spiritual cause. In other words, I do not think HaShem gave us desires, nor the means to fulfill them, simply for our pleasure alone, but that there is a message within them... But, I could suppose that if wingsuit flight would somehow help another person achieve this state, i.e. the way to the message for that person is (specifically) in the flight, then I could see the desire to join/help rise in myself. Thing is, that's still physical (for the other person), in Olam Haba, we should already be in that state... At least, this is *my* understanding... 

Regarding our separate beliefs, I don't get the sense that you need me to believe as you do, nor do I need that from you. We're just asking questions, so it's all good with me!  :)
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