Tone Vays vs Roger Ver debate on BTC vs BCH as 'hard currency'. by transisto

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· @transisto · (edited)
$452.21
Tone Vays vs Roger Ver debate on BTC vs BCH as 'hard currency'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2-RXTqWDek

First part with Jimmy song, same subject [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2-RXTqWDek](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2-RXTqWDek)

Description of 'Hard money/ currency from https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hardcurrency.asp
>Hard Currency
>What is 'Hard Currency'
>A hard currency is a monetary system that is widely accepted around the world as a form of payment for goods and services. It usually comes from a country that has a strong economic and political situation. A hard currency is expected to remain relatively stable through a short period of time, and to be highly liquid in the forex or foreign exchange (FX) market. 

>BREAKING DOWN 'Hard Currency'
>The most tradable currencies in the world are the U.S. dollar (USD), European euro (EUR), Japanese yen (JPY), British pound (GBP), Swiss franc (CHF), Canadian dollar (CAD), Australian/New Zealand dollar (AUD/NZD) and South African rand (ZAR). The U.S. dollar enjoys status as the world's foreign reserve currency, the reason it is used in 70% of international trade transactions.

>All of these currencies garner the confidence of international investors and businesses because they are not prone to dramatic depreciation or appreciation. A depreciation in a nation's currency is the result of either an increase in the money supply or a loss of confidence in its future ability as a store of constant value, because of either economic, financial or governmental concerns. A striking example of an unstable or a soft currency is the Argentinian peso, which in 2015, lost 34.6% of its value against the dollar, making it highly unattractive to foreign investors.

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@lilkeszi ·
Great post @transisto. It's a pleasure acquire knowledge about hard currency.
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@wendyth16 ·
useful informations about coins.
**well done**
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@ziarat ·
Its good information about currency .. thanks

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@orl4ndo ·
Bch sucks

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@online87700 ·
Debate is healthy and make us knowledgeable , thank you friend I am happy to learn
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@whatsupdog ·
Tone vays is only in it for the technology.
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@transisto ·
$0.03
He's really not a technical guy.
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@princelouise ·
really true some how, but what about the reality in practice
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@transisto ·
Gfy
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@the-ego-is-you · (edited)
$0.08
Obviously not the better of debates. It got heated right off the bat from the actual debate with Jimmy previously, in which Jimmy had crowned himself moderator and had an entire speech pre-written out of the blue.

(edit: I just noticed now that Jimmy blocked me on Medium for criticizing his full speech that he posted afterwards)

But if you ignore the fact that one guy (Roger as usual) is significantly louder than the other and you listen to what is said some things will no doubt stick out if you've been around for this debate up until now.

Tone is not a Bitcoin design maximalist per se, he is a HODLer/noforks maximalist. Roger is a crazy ancap and ready to switch coins if one doesn't work out. The former doesn't think competitive scaling is a good idea. The latter still thinks Bitcoin can scale through industry consolidation and professionalism. 

Whoever you agree with, that gives you a clue. 
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@transisto · (edited)
$0.03
> Tone is not a Bitcoin design maximalist

Holding you savings in bitcoin is what every Bitcoin maximalist does. . Noforks maximalist? What does that even mean?
👍  ,
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@the-ego-is-you · (edited)
Bitcoin is what Satoshi described via posts and whitepaper. This hasn't changed, but what most people know as Bitcoin certainly has. 

Holding your savings in it doesn't make you a maximalist. That's as much a shortcut as saying anything different to what people know as Bitcoin is an altcoin. That's not what the concept did or should refer to. 

Tone is against hard forks period and even more vocally against "contentious" forks, which is a strange concept considering there is always going to be some contention to any fork. 

Bitcoin is not about popular opinion or "one node one vote" or anything like that. This is what he and so many others either don't get, or more likely just don't want to admit at this point.
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@batangcrypto ·
Wow. Heated conversation with their respective opinions. This makes me feel like I am watching a concert
👍  ,
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@ronel ·
I dream of waking up someday that the word money will no longer be thought of, worked for, used for/to and money be vanished forever!

Who invented this money???
I just googled it!
>Around 700 B.C., the Lydians became the first Western culture to make coins

I don't wanna hear the word money anymore!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/UMUZgoNFcWTgQ/giphy.gif
👎  
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@aldusfaustlela ·
Man roger needs to learn to chill out!
👍  
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@itstime ·
Someone needs to introduce him to xaanx...
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@sames · (edited)
$0.58
The debate was ok but I was disappointed with this debate. **Roger lost** but I would of liked it to be more pro. At this point they are so invested in there respected fav coins that their emotions run high. **Tony made good points and did win the debate** but the tone if you can hear became more like an argument.  I think most of us can agree-that Roger is trying to seek attention. And we make fun of him for it?**But are we doing anything to prevent that?** The more we respond to him the more relevance he has.  When will we just learn to ignore him? Then again we know CSW is not Satoshi and almost of all of us just want to ignore him but what you know-he "relevant" again-FU Calvin/Coingeek. I just want the freaking drama to end. BCH is not Bitcoin-it an altcoin that pretty ok ignoring some of the people. BTC is bitcoin and it wants offchain scaling-just let it happen. It can work-just let the coins experiment. **The "which coin is better" will never stop-free market makes sure of it-but atleast end the scaling war feud. It over. Each side is not helping to end. Roger doesn't like BTC-fine don't list. Call Btc-bitcoin and BCH a better bitcoin-Bitcoin 2.0 or whatever. I love BTC and will never use BCH but I done with this dumb type of shit. I doubt one side will ever back down. I however feel the BCH side is doing more of the physical wounds that are not letting the wound scar.
#selfupvote to put this comment above...
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@andreolf ·
same here @sames
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@hanatuoh ·
Welcome to steemit.nice to meet you.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
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@lindeicy ·
good, in a song is so wow. I do like to this post <3
👍  
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@teenovision ·
nice video
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@andreina89 ·
Congratulations friend good
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@transisto · (edited)
$0.48
@rogerkver, Store of **value** is a pre-requisite to allow for transfer of **value** ("cash").

> If you want to have your store of value coin go ahead I'm not gonna stop you but **that's not interesting to me**. 

link to time [https://youtu.be/i2-RXTqWDek?t=1627](https://youtu.be/i2-RXTqWDek?t=1627)

According to Roger Ver :
P2P electronic store of value = Bad 
vs
P2P electronic cash system = Good.

But cash = value
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@the-ego-is-you · (edited)
That's not the point. The point is that you can't store value well if you risk fees skyrocketing or you suddenly must use a much more advanced system to use what's in your wallet.

You don't "store" value unless you retain your money as it was. What do you retain it for? Later use. 
👍  ,
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@transisto · (edited)
$0.03
Btc fees have been around 5c to transact any amount for 9+ months. 

How many wire transfers have you done this month?
Are wire transfers completely useless because they cost 50$? 

If you take some steps back you'll realize there is more money in need for a solid store of value than looking for cheap credit card like payments

Do you mind losing 93% of your value (BCH:BTC) to be able to transact cheaper on a network who's main proponent admit transaction fees are barely an afterthought? 

Why would anyone invest in a currency that doesn't have a plan for upkeeping security when the block reward phases out?

Be patient, don't fuck up humanity's opportunity to free itself from TPTB. Actual scaling technologies are tested and almost ready for mass adoption.

BCH had lost a year ago. Do you think it makes sense to expect people wait 10 more years to see if their currency will still be worth something? It's irresponsible and reckless.
👍  ,
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@hedge-x ·
$0.20
Yes, that's correct. Utility in economic transactions "cash" is what drives the value over time. This why we nearly saw Ethereum flip the value on Bitcoin last summer. Heavy use = heavy demand. 

Over time the most useful Cryptos will become the most valuable. Just the dollar was used to buy oil, goods and services. The larger the economics of scale the more value that is accrued. Good money drives out the bad. Unless Bitcoin makes significant upgrades better currencies will drive away slow expensive ones.

Even if lightening network was working 100% today, which is not. What happens if millions of people decide to all close their channels at one time?  Segwit only has 40% adoption rate after one year and blocks are still at 1MB with only tps second. That's not going work.
👍  ,
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@hedge-x ·
*3 tps
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@elderson ·
$0.04
@hedge-x Today we have Bitcoin debit cards. Hell, we even have debit cards for altcoins and icos that lead into a debit card. With this in play do you think we will see a mass adoption in our lifetime?
👍  
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@talltim ·
$0.24
Roger doesn't care, he's just pumping his latest con. He even said "I would switch < coins > in a minute and do something else."

He's a bored millionaire trying to fleece people as a game, and he's gotten a few hooray henries -- you see them chanting during the "debate". He's no better than George Soros, meddling just because he can. Any claims that Ver has about helping anyone is just virtue-signaling bullshit.

He's a egoist, self-centered con-man, grifter and idle rich kid with aspirations towards power.

Basically the worst components of corrupt politicians, wealthy brats and psycho executives.

No wonder BCash is floundering like it is, every single thing that tumbles out of Roger's mouth is a inept lie designed to paper over his flawed project.

Too funny.
👍  ,
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@srsarangi94 ·
Crypto has the potential to make any country a developed country. It's important that govt should have a knowledge on crypto and it's potential
👍  
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@printskill ·
@transisto It's a healthy debate. A person ask about the confusion of new blockchain person entering in this field. And get answer that one can trust on ICO and many crypto that doesn't have any reputation or recognition, but still people trust on that. 

Bitcoin Cash is the result of a bitcoin fork. It is extremely similar in many ways to bitcoin, but Bitcoin Cash has a few technical differences that make a big impact. One difference, which has many significant follow-on effects, is the difference in block size. Bitcoin has a 1MB block size, while Bitcoin Cash has an 8MB block size.

It's a very information discussion and on a cruise. Peoples are learning while enjoying their life. I like the concept of earn with fun. @printskill
👍  , ,
👎  
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@mdabu ·
# This is the currency of any country? But it is good to know the details. Do not share this much more with us. thank you
👍  
👎  
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@transisto ·
# WTF
👍  
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@itstime ·
They mean they can't handle the truth
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@oceanwhale ·
re-transisto-tone-vays-vs-roger-ver-debate-on-hard-currency-20180914t070439922z
You got a 47.44% upvote from @oceanwhale With 35+ Bonus Upvotes courtesy of @steemium! Earn 100% earning payout by delegating SP to <a href="/@oceanwhale">@oceanwhale</a>. Visit <a title="This link will take you away from steemit.com" href="http://www.oceanwhalebot.com" rel="noopener">www.OceanWhaleBot.com</a> for details!
👎  
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@thedawn ·
Very nice post, good debate about cryptocurrency.
👎  
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@safetony · (edited)
$0.03
BCH is going nowhere slowly let's try and outshout the competition shame he's loosing his voice though lol
👍  , ,
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@itstime ·
$0.23
the screaming wasn't very inspiring...
👍  ,
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@the-ego-is-you · (edited)
Can't but agree with that. Roger has this habit of always being kind of in your face about whatever he thinks and that can be hard to look past. Especially since he isn't the best debater either. 

But he does make valid points if you take the time to think about what he says  and you can put some context around it. Problem is I guess, most people have not even read the Bitcoin design to begin with. Even fewer Satoshis clarifications as to how it scales.

Out of the more recent crowd to join in on the crypto boom, most have gotten used to speaking in a way that directly contradicts all terminology from the early days and can't leave any room for other perspectives. Coming around to what they deem "centralization" (market driven industry consolidation) and "trust" (reliance on PoW) is not gonna be easy.
👍  
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@itstime ·
Both made valid points but the yelling is just a turn off to the core messaging ...

Eventually there is space for both ( IMO) just store of value coins and transactional coins , it's not a zero sum game but for some reason they keep making it seem that way.
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@merchegarrido ·
Yo estuve ahí en la piscinita ![Roger Ver.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmXdb5Boz2mZqgUwiGr5P8fk7vgnbMqqPE2W2EXHVWjopS/Roger%20Ver.jpg) #BLOCKCHAINCRUISE
👎  
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@mudassor ·
great work guys
👎  
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@bellalhossain ·
Upvoted
👎  
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@dominion01 ·
BTC would qualify.  I don't think Bch would.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
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@mudassor ·
yes this is mostly accepted all around the world..
👎  
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@arcange ·
Congratulations @transisto!
Your post was mentioned in the [Steemit Hit Parade](https://steemit.com/hit-parade/@arcange/daily-hit-parade-20180913) in the following category:

* Pending payout - Ranked 1 with $ 421,88
👎  
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@tamwin33 ·
$0.03
This is such a dumb debate. It's fiat with a cap on the printing. It still can't scale, it's still volatile, it still has no intrinsic demand, it's expensive to transact, and its large server farms and pools can still be regulated by governments. Both have the same problems. One is controlled by Bilderberg, and one is controlled by people who lie about what blockchains do the most transactions for the benefit of their portfolios. The Bitcoin community needs to stop having these pointless debates and pay attention to the real innovation. That's where the real competition is.
👍  , ,
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@lordbutterfly · (edited)
Finally a comment in this whole thread worth commenting on.

> This whole discussion is like listening someone arguing if a 3hp steam engine is better then a 3.1hp steam engine while V12s are being built.

I mean its ridiculous. This just shows the idiocy of the market. <b>Artificially creating "competition" between x and y obsolete tech</b> as to spark more interest and create more focus on 2 cryptocoins. 
I mean, that is the cheapest and most transparent marketing strategy. 
And it worked. @transisto and another user got into a somewhat heated discussion over it. People are commenting, etc. 

Samsung vs iphone, mcdonalds vs burger king, coke vs pepsi, xbox vs playstation. 
You create some drama, drama draws attention, 2 camps form, more drama insues and more attention is brought to the discussion. Both sides win. 
Btc or bch? Neither has the potential to be a store of value nor a currency with wide adoption.
👍  
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@reseller ·
$0.20
<center>

You've made the Steemit Minute for today! Congrats! 

Check out the Video Here: https://steemit.com/news/@reseller/tv18fvjg

</center>
👍  ,
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@jmz33 ·
ColaBorenme y siganme en mi blog
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@billmega ·
I might have posted some of this before you....but whatev.
Pure Brilliance!
👍  
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@viptrading ·
Great debate !
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@maffs ·
The screaming was not attention-getting
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@dhanigher ·
Very Good
👍  
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@ura-soul ·
$0.25
I can't help but feel that this has more to do with ego than providing a solid basis for a balanced humanity.
#needsMoreHulkHogan
👍  
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@badmashravi ·
This debate was nothing less than epic! Showed the strengths and weaknesses on both sides.
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@asaha ·
This is hard for me... But if Roger doesn't like btc it's not that the country isn't good... It's called preference... We all have market choices and that's just it
👍  
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@andreolf ·
seems for me too much politics instead how the product vision is...
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@haikubot ·
<em>Seems for me too much 
Politics instead how the 
Product vision is... 
</em>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<sup>- andreolf</sup>

---
<sup><sup><em>I'm a bot. I detect haiku.</em></sup></sup>
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@antmantiger ·
I didnt really like the debate. Jimmy started off having tantrums and then most of hi part was just reading from his written down speach. Roger Ver just wanted to debate. Then Tone Vays comes on thinking his really sexy and that debate part was ok with Roger but he didnt really debate. And also i forgot her name but the mediator was there who is very close to Tone they r on the same youtube channel always were wisperig to oneanother as usual. Roger was the debater the other just really blurted out hate.
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@kaleem345 ·
Nice dear, in a song is so wow. Nice n cool sharing 

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
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