RE: FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP by joelkatz

View this thread on steempeak.com

Viewing a response to: @kyle.anderson/re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170521t154635526z

· @joelkatz ·
What is the "it" you are referring to? Bitcoin -- where three companies in China choose which transactions go in?
👍  , , , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id2,925,728
authorjoelkatz
permlinkre-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170521t183901397z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-21 18:39:00
last_update2017-05-21 18:39:00
depth3
children22
net_rshares12,050,128,701
last_payout2017-05-28 18:39:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length113
author_reputation8,360,306,936,514
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (8)
@kyle.anderson ·
I don't have anything that satisfies my trust requirements that the actors in control are not colluding. These are the types of trust assumptions Bitcoin builds on.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id2,936,347
authorkyle.anderson
permlinkre-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170522t031221301z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-22 03:12:21
last_update2017-05-22 03:12:21
depth4
children13
net_rshares577,119,825
last_payout2017-05-29 03:12:21
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length164
author_reputation8,981,178,609,606
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@joelkatz ·
$0.04
With bitcoin, the actors are whoever has the best price on power and the best ASICs. There's no way to know whether or not such actors will collude and, today, they're all controlled by the government of China should it choose to exercise such control. By contrast, Ripple's consensus algorithm is not inherently centralizing in this way. It won't decentralize itself, but it's possible for it to be, and remain, truly decentralized. Ripple is committed to making this happen and has absolutely no incentive not to make it happen.
👍  , , , , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id3,084,648
authorjoelkatz
permlinkre-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170526t153626676z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-26 15:36:27
last_update2017-05-26 15:36:27
depth5
children12
net_rshares29,288,407,226
last_payout2017-06-02 15:36:27
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.032 SBD
curator_payout_value0.009 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length530
author_reputation8,360,306,936,514
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (9)
@kyle.anderson ·
Well, RCL is a very worthy technology for a mostly decenteralized settlement network, I hope to see better node decentralization in the future. The same does *not* apply to XRP IMO. 

Bitcoin and Ripple are *very* different projects - I do not find it entirely accurate to compare the projects in this way. I don't want to argue about the hypothetical collusion between Chinese miners; we can do that some other time :). 
>Ripple is committed to making this happen and has absolutely no incentive not to make it happen.

I disagree with this statement. See, I just don't like taking your word for it.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id3,121,138
authorkyle.anderson
permlinkre-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170527t194150861z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-27 19:41:51
last_update2017-05-27 19:41:51
depth6
children11
net_rshares0
last_payout2017-06-03 19:41:51
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length600
author_reputation8,981,178,609,606
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@kyle.anderson ·
Hate on Bitcoin security all you want. Your a developer? for a pseudo-decentralized consensus ledger.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id2,936,377
authorkyle.anderson
permlinkre-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170522t031351925z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-22 03:13:51
last_update2017-05-22 03:13:51
depth4
children7
net_rshares577,119,825
last_payout2017-05-29 03:13:51
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length101
author_reputation8,981,178,609,606
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@joelkatz · (edited)
$0.04
I don't hate on bitcoin security. I just have a realistic, rather than a naive, view of what it can, and has, accomplished. If you don't realistically see the weaknesses of one scheme, you can't rationally compare it to another.

The problem with bitcoin is that the stakeholders are chosen by external, inherently centralizing, factors. And worse, the stakeholders have a strong incentive to see the transaction fees be high. This is not by any stretch a fatal flaw, and bitcoin would probably have already gotten past it if people were honest about it. It just shows that the naive view that mining is inherently decentralizing and governance will take care of itself through everyone acting selfishly, doesn't always work out as well as you might hope.

I'm still very bullish on bitcoin and expect it to be the dominant cryptocurrency for some time, maybe forever. But it will always have poor censorship resistance due to its reliance on PoW -- unless that reliance changes.
👍  , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id3,084,664
authorjoelkatz
permlinkre-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170526t153704236z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-26 15:37:03
last_update2017-05-26 15:41:42
depth5
children6
net_rshares28,094,902,672
last_payout2017-06-02 15:37:03
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.030 SBD
curator_payout_value0.009 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length979
author_reputation8,360,306,936,514
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (6)
@kyle.anderson ·
Are we talking about the RCL or XRP... Becasue I have a realistic understanding of the security that Bitcoin offers. 

>The problem with bitcoin is that the stakeholders are chosen by external, inherently centralizing, factors. And worse, the stakeholders have a strong incentive to see the transaction fees be high

I think there are a lot more to these two statements than you make it seem. I agree with most of what you detail, although with with many small caveats. I think there is a place in this space for many different systems - each offering degrees of 'security', 'decentralization' and such. XRP and BTC will coexist dispite their large differences in centralization.
properties (22)
post_id3,121,276
authorkyle.anderson
permlinkre-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170527t194714125z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-05-27 19:47:12
last_update2017-05-27 19:47:12
depth6
children4
net_rshares0
last_payout2017-06-03 19:47:12
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length679
author_reputation8,981,178,609,606
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@granunic0rn ·
Not to mention that some actors are much more selfish than others.
Thus, you have inherently different levels of selfishness which ultimately lead to the emergence of some dominance hierarchy that creates a disproportionate power differential over time.

As you, I am not saying that this is bad, but I am far more willing to place my trust in a company that has something to lose from fucking up (e.g.: 20 billion Ripple). The stake that the owner's of the company hold are what insures their integrity.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id10,885,646
authorgranunic0rn
permlinkre-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-kyleanderson-re-joelkatz-re-olyup-fck-you-money-the-rise-and-fall-of-xrp-20170823t191956470z
categoryripple
json_metadata"{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["ripple"]}"
created2017-08-23 19:20:00
last_update2017-08-23 19:20:00
depth6
children0
net_rshares2,113,350,423
last_payout2017-08-30 19:20:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length504
author_reputation112,201,845,430
root_title"FCK/YOU Money: The Rise and Fall of XRP"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)