RE: Are Upvote Bots Necessarily the Enemy of Quality Content? by denmarkguy

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Viewing a response to: @personz/re-denmarkguy-are-upvote-bots-necessarily-the-enemy-of-quality-content-20171204t095548049z

· @denmarkguy ·
$0.07
@personz, I think they harm the overall credibility of Steemit as a social content venue... and they discourage both sincere quality content AND authentic engagement. 

It may be a non-causal correlation, but I have been watching the metric of "average number of comments per top level post" decline, as the number of upvote and resteem services have increased. 

That's a double whammy. If you consider the fact that upvote bots leave thousands of automated comments and number of comments per post is STILL down? Then the number of HUMAN comments per post must *really* be taking it in the shorts.

I find that really problematic because it takes HUMANS to build communities, not bots. Is it "harmful?" I suppose that depends on whether the Steemit social front end is "valuable" in the greater context of the growth and stability of the Steem token. If Steemit is just a "sideshow" in the greater ambition to rule the world through SMTs, maybe this whole argument doesn't matter. On the other hand, if we still harbor hopes that Steemit could be a viable decentralized "facebook alternative" then some changes will need to happen or we'll end up dead in the water.
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@personz ·
$0.17
I just didn't want to let you away with only asking questions 😉

I think the correlation (if it's there) is not to be presumed to be causal either. I do consider auto-comments to be spam if they don't provide some useful information, but that's for each to decide, if you can post a comment at all it means you're entitled to by your bandwidth allotment, bot or not.

It does take humans to build communities but I think a fact that's often neglected is that humans are the creators of and user of bots. They just do something we can do but automated. This is especially true for Steemit where the blockchain makes no distinction between human and bot users.

Still, I think that vote buying is harmful to the project as a whole because it looks really bad from an outside perspective. I've lost track of the amount of times I've heard fresh claims that Steemit is a scam because of it. But unfortunately we have to roll with that, and in a way that's just outsiders not understanding that everyone here is free to do such stuff, ill-advised as it may be.

For me the real issue is that curation is not valued well enough on it's own so people turn to these services. I agree with @blocktrades in [this post](https://steemit.com/steem/@blocktrades/voting-abuse-and-ineffective-curation-a-proposal-for-blockchain-level-change): Change the 30 minute Rule to 5 minutes and restore 50/50 rewards

On SMTs, I really hope Steemit does not become the sideshow to them, but if it happens so be it, we all roll with the changes. Bots will factor into those too.
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@denmarkguy ·
$0.05
One of the very first issues I raised here after joining Steemit in January was this:

*"What are you guys going to do about the inevitable horde of 'squatters' who will move in by the 1000s and set up camp here for NO OTHER REASON than to use the platform as a giant coin dispenser through whatever forms of spam and automation they can bring to bear, completely burying legitimate content in the process?"*

Not a popular thing to say, alas. HAD SOMEONE said *"Oh, we have countermeasures in place"* or even *"the community will self-regulate that"* I would have been OK with it, but it was the utterly naive *"Oh that will never happen (here)"* feedback that made me worried. Before I even got significantly started.

My question was back by *twenty years* for watching content-for-rewards sites go down in flames for little more reason than the founders of each venue pathetically underestimating the sheer of *greed* in human nature that will drive thousands and thousands of people to go to almost any lengths to extract half-cents from web sites in lieu of actually going out and getting a job. To wit: sites like Amazon's "Mechanical Turk" have over half a million users registered for the opportunity to make two cents per supermarket receipt they transcribe... operating *fully in the belief* that their activity (which earns 20 cents a day) constitutes *making money online.* NATURALLY, they will flock to a venue like Steemit with all guns blazing, seeing this as no more than a huge cash cow. 

Jeebus! Wake the frak UP, people! Smell the reality. *"Because we're on the blockchain"* is not a magic pill that exempts anyone from the roots of human nature, it merely ensures that said "human nature" is *perpetually recorded* on the blockchain.

/end soapbox

But yeah, I also agree with @blocktrades that 50/50 curation and ending that 30 minute clock might be a positive for manual curation... or at least it would serve to make manual curators feel a little less disadvantaged.

**Footnote:** perhaps that's the part of using zappl to throw out questions for debate I *don't* like... there's no room to share our own opinions, except in comments. But thanks for asking!
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@personz ·
$0.08
Yea I'm only joshing you 😉   But I am still waiting on the post or series of posts describing your experience with the sites you have knowledge of doing a similar thing to Steemit and how that blew up. Don't think I forgot 🖐
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