SteemSilverGold and SilverGoldBotty : Clarifying the Controversy by buggedout

steemsilvergold · @buggedout · Mar 13 '18

$73.74

SteemSilverGold and SilverGoldBotty : Clarifying the Controversy

What is SteemSilverGold? What is SilverGoldBotty? These are important questions and while many may think they have simple answers, the devil is always in the detail and that detail has perhaps been lacking. Lacking to the point where misunderstandings and controversy of some kind or other become inevitable. Misunderstandings and controversy like we’ve seen this week.

<center>![steemsilvergoldlogos.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmeZttzpGpDxXgUTVkYX8no2uadFvqGJJTqasXPnmEYYJy/steemsilvergoldlogos.png)</center>

Let me start with SteemSilverGold because it came first. It started out as just a tag that some stackers were using to post with on the STEEM platform to talk about, show off and promote physical Silver and Gold holdings. It was open to anyone and it was totally informal and unregulated – just like everything else in the crypto space. Over time it started to consolidate into a membership of stackers who started building a community and supporting each other. To my eye it became like a Club or Association in the physical world. There was some talk of setting up a Committee to represent the members interests, but to my knowledge there was no formal constitution or proper governance established (a criticism I have of many STEEM communities – but I digress).

I have been involved with Team Australia since getting into STEEM where there is also a solid community as part of the Minnow Support Project. It is a community that has a number of voting bots that were set up to support the membership and encourage regular content creation and engagement. @phelimint is also involved with that community and I can remember talking to him about setting up a similar bot to support #SteemSilverGold. I believe I was the first person to delegate power to @silvergoldbotty and I also donated some SBD to help promote it in those early days. My expectation at the time was this was a charitable enterprise and I thought it might run in a similar fashion to the @centerlink community bot that supports #teamaustralia.

My contribution was dwarfed, however, by guys like @raybrockman and @thedamus (among others) who saw the potential of the new @silvergoldbotty to support the #steemsilvergold membership and started donating VERY generously. I believe these guys saw the bot as a not-for-profit club support bot and when it transitioned into a subscription model with membership tiers the suggestion that @phelimint draw a wage was probably seen as the equivalent of the club paying him for his efforts in building and maintaining the membership owned bot. For me, the writing was on the wall from this point, however, and I have been uncomfortable with the developing bot situation for a while now yet have been reluctant to make waves by voicing dissent about it.

There is an old saying amongst experienced stackers that *“If you don’t hold it, you don’t own it”* It is used frequently to explain why people should hold their wealth as physical gold and silver rather than some kind of paper derivative or money in the bank. The same saying holds true for Crypto. If you don’t hold the Private Key to the crypto then you don’t own it. Here emerges the Grey Area and the Genesis for this current controversy. The #steemsilvergold membership did NOT own the Private Key to the @silvergoldbotty and thus they did not own it. But many members (including some of the more generous ones that were still donating and promoting heavily) perhaps had the false understanding that it was a community owned bot. See recent posts from [thedamus](https://steemit.com/steemsilvergold/@thedamus/here-s-an-idea-suggestion-s-no-1-for-stax) and [raybrockman](https://steemit.com/steemsilvergold/@raybrockman/the-waters-are-rough-so-stay-calm)

The @silvergoldbotty as it currently stands seems to be more of a Business venture. Gradually over the last 3 months, the ROI for members has been dwindling, while the profitability for the owner and manager has been growing. It has got to the point now where questions are being asked and the truth of the situation is coming out. I personally have been treating it like a business venture since the start of the year and that’s why I stopped donating and it’s why I promote #steemsilvergold rather than @silvergoldbotty it in my post footers. I was very reluctant to renew my Gold Membership for March and when I saw the Qurator deal was struck for a vote swap between these bots I immediately regretted my membership renewal as I could see this was another 10% drain on the daily voting power and it would even further degrade the ROI for members. I personally decided to walk away from my Gold Membership at the end of the month but it seems I was not the only one who was not happy with the way things were going. So it’s time for me to say my piece because maybe there is enough strength of will from the senior members of #steemsilvergold that the situation could be saved.

I don’t have a problem with people making money on STEEM, or even making money with bots if they are up front about things. I see a number of community bots being run by volunteers who don’t get paid at all for their effort and if you do the math, the 100% vote for @phelimint has been a VERY decent pay packet for him to reward him for his hard work. But what I do have a problem with is the way that @silvergoldbotty seems to have been masquerading as a community/membership bot even though in essence it seems it has now turned out to be a privately owned For-Profit bot. In my opinion the only reason this has blown up now is because the ROI for members has been squeezed so hard and so consistently that senior #steemsilvergold members are getting fed up and are now asking the right questions. The truth of the situation is now coming out.

I realise I am not making any friends with this post and it will piss a few people off. I do recognise that @phelimint has put a lot of work into building up @silvergoldbotty but I do also believe he has been extremely well compensated already with the 100% vote. I also recognise that guys like @raybrockman and @thedamus have also contributed substantially to building up the bot and that was at least in part because they thought it was a community owned bot and didn’t realise it had become a privately owned business venture. I completely sympathise with these guys.

I’ve personally been thinking about how to establish proper governance of a community bot for a while because this is not the first incident of this type on the STEEM platform. Unfortunately there are no easy answers. One possible solution is to put the Private Key into escrow and have community representatives collectively control it, but that is technically problematic. The easier short term solution is to keep the bot powered down and measure its success via growth of membership and total leased STEEM POWER rather than retained STEEM POWER. This means the Private Keys can be individually owned/held but other than the brand, there is no value retained within those keys so there is no incentive for the individual holding the keys to try and personally benefit.

I know it’s probably not going to happen with @silvergoldbotty, but if the #steemsilvergold membership does want to establish some proper governance around a true community bot AND it’s membership then I would be happy to try and facilitate this. I do have experience with volunteer organisations and I have the technical expertise to set up a bot for the membership and I would be prepared to donate some time and funds to help get it going if that’s what the broader #steemsilvergold community wants.

<center>**Speak up now because there are some big decisions to be made over the next few days**</center>

____

<center>![steemsilvergold.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmcrrAKhneQkmgH5Q8ebnrvWBV39rVYW3xtMcrNQn41DU4/steemsilvergold.png)

<center>![TeamAust_buggedout.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmSfn8N9CPKHUUsqp7KUXwbUJEyT96qLw91AWdz2gTiVcr/TeamAust_buggedout.png)</center>

👍 smartsteem, pushup, fuzzyvest, sneaky-ninja, upmewhale, silvergoldbotty, drakos, janusface, qurator, ausbitbank, thedamus, mrsquiggle, phelimint, christosthegreek, tbnfl4sun, silverbug, centerlink, stsl, raybrockman, choogirl, drpuffnstuff, costanza, cryptokeepr, o07, pawos, sendpi, juanmiguelsalas, firedream, shellyduncan, bulleth, senseicat, ratticus, msp-lovebot, webcoop, goldkey, foles09, filotasriza3, scooter77, benleemusic, scandinavianlife, vicspics, stephen-somers, g-dubs, bearone, silvernova, pit-bullion, teamaustralia, kp138, coindevil, steembusiness, bmj, welshstacker, jagged, gamersclassified, cryptoandzen, drac59, silverstackeruk, mumofmany, steemulator, cryptotem, edthecanadian, goldenarms, russellbury, maarnio, and 39 others
👎 grumpycat

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upmewhale	2,124,578,648,932	20.66%
mrs-v	581,895,218	100%
devilonwheels	99,618,979	0.05%
wisewoof	109,841,084	0.12%
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energyaddict22	150,743,853	1.75%
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@tts · Mar 13 '18

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.
[![](https://s18.postimg.org/51o0kpijd/play200x46.png)](http://ec2-52-72-169-104.compute-1.amazonaws.com/buggedout__steemsilvergold-and-silvergoldbotty-clarifying-the-controversy.mp3)
Brought to you by [@tts](https://steemit.com/tts/@tts/introduction). If you find it useful please consider upvote this reply.

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@sharkbank · Mar 13 '18

$0.24

<p>This post has received a 50.00 % upvote from @sharkbank thanks to: @sammosk.</p>

👍 stitchybitch, dunstuff, justinashby, gogogadget, somethingnifty, sammosk, lookatmysocks, urza, fiddlelaura, nelliel, speedydave, oracles

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@pushup · Mar 13 '18

re-buggedout-steemsilvergold-and-silvergoldbotty-clarifying-the-controversy-20180313t031836982z

28.20% @pushup from @buggedout

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@stnwllstrtgc · Mar 13 '18

Yea things got out of hand for sure. I believe it is fixable and while I don't know Phil very well I believe he wasn't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. 
I think the bot still has value, but we as steemsilvergold needs to set up  more defined goals and guidelines as opposed to flying by the seat of our pants. 
So I'm curious what your ideas for that are and I hope others in the community are as well.

👍 buggedout, owenwat

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@choogirl · Mar 13 '18

$0.02

I think you've done a good job laying out the issues here Bugged. I hope it gets resolved before it turns into a major shit show (assuming that hasn't already happened--I'm not really following it).

👍 buggedout, alagamon

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@buggedout · Mar 13 '18

Thanks @choogirl it certainly has the potential to turn ugly and while there has been some emotions involved I think people are still being fairly mature about it so far.  Hopefully it's resolved soon.

👍 alagamon

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@kp138 · Mar 13 '18

Thanks for clearly explaining the situation. The steemsilvergold community is my main reason for loving Steemit so much. I hope we can all come to  resolution that is agreeable to everyone. I’d hate to see silverbotty and the community break down.

👍 buggedout, owenwat

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@tony10 · Mar 13 '18

I am interested in the new bot that rewards the community and would be willing to delegate some of my steem (I prefer delegating to donating as I can take it away if I Decide its not working out well). I don't have any great suggestions though but I will follow your posts. Good luck

👍 buggedout

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@upmewhale · Mar 13 '18

re-buggedout-steemsilvergold-and-silvergoldbotty-clarifying-the-controversy-20180313t050552915z

You got a 20.66% upvote from @upmewhale courtesy of @buggedout! Earn 90% daily earning payout by delegating SP to @upmewhale.

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@sneaky-ninja · Mar 13 '18

re-buggedout-steemsilvergold-and-silvergoldbotty-clarifying-the-controversy-20180313t062319355z

![sneaky-ninja-sword-xs.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmde7XXhkKjmxyqBbBPTwkaiuXXrtQe6qXoWmCDZL1nD2B/sneaky-ninja-sword-xs.jpg)
Sneaky Ninja Attack! You have just been defended with a 19.92% upvote!
I was summoned by buggedout. I have done their bidding and now I will vanish…
woosh
---
P.S. If you or anyone you know has been a victim of @grumpycat please know that he has been harming people throughout Sōsharumedia (ソーシャルメディア). Stealing the service that I (and other bots) have provided them and hiding behind a facade of stopping bid bot abuse which he clearly has no interest in.
Sneaky Ninja is a very responsible bot, working directly with steemcleaners, actively pursuing spam and abuse on our platform. If you would like to see what steps Sneaky Ninja has taken to fight bid bot abuse see [this post](https://steemit.com/steemit/@sneaky-ninja/sneaky-ninja-strikes-back-how-ninja-is-combating-bot-abuse-special-announcement) and [this post](https://steemit.com/steemit/@sneaky-ninja/sneaky-ninja-strikes-again-the-next-step-in-fighting-bid-bot-abuse-attention-dmania-and-dlive-users). Also know that I am working daily on other solutions.
If you would like to know my personal take on bid bot abuse and why I do not agree with the 3.5 day rule, see [this post](https://steemit.com/steemit/@michaeldavid/steemit-s-got-issues-bid-bot-abuse-take-1)

### Grumpycat is a villain that must be stopped to protect our freedoms here on steemit!

![resist grumpycat](https://steemitimages.com/DQmRL1EHCGsFkA9Pi8aAwzL8PGYmPPuvK6QicoxsiLEPHwX/resist-image.jpg)
There is a resistance that has formed to counter his tyranny.

If you would like to take an active role in stopping this menace and helping other victims like yourself...
[Learn More Here](https://steemit.com/we-resist/@firedream/resistance-started)
![Kusari-Profile-small.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmSzAJV75vQ4MjPfJg5vCBeueYWNVHBp38VtC2xt7CNqJm/Kusari-Profile-small.jpg)

I have also summoned my love, Kusari to offer some limited help to victims like you.
[See Here](https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@kusari/hello-i-am-kusari-and-i-m-fucking-pissed-attention-all-victims-of-grumpycat)

👍 fat-elvis

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@bitgeek · Mar 13 '18

comment

Congratulations @buggedout, this post is the ninth most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Superuser account holder (accounts that hold between 1 and 10 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Superuser account holders during this period was 1293 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $8453.79. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, [click here](www.steemit.com/steemit/@bitgeek/payout-stats-report-for-13th-march-2018--part-ii). 

If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, please reply stop to this comment.

👍 buggedout

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`created`	2018-03-13 07:58:48
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@ronaldoavelino · Mar 13 '18 (edited)

I think that we will reach several important conclusions next week. @phelimint, @thedamus and you wrote extensive articles explaining your views about the subject and there are several points in common, so an agreement about what is silvergoldbotty will be done.

👍 buggedout

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@roxdude · Mar 13 '18

Good post and info hopefully it will get sorted one way or another. we all using each other,  just i guess is the extent you being used by that counts and if you ok with that..I don't know much about the workings of bots and all that but clearly is an issue here.

👍 buggedout, alagamon, owenwat

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voter	rshares	pct
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@thedamus · Mar 13 '18

$0.70

The thunder from down under!!!

Thanks @buggedout for your clarity and presentation, and also, for recognizing the community effort that has been lovingly *pumped* into our bot, lol, Oooomph!

Stax may have gotten a little too drunk, we’re not sure yet, but the membership is fine. Going forward, i may ask for your assistence. Maybe transparent bot ownership is in my cards 😳😁🤣🤪

👍 thedamus, r351574nc3, moeknows, buggedout, jagged, owenwat

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buggedout	6,416,474,869	30%
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@thedamus · Mar 13 '18

![A76E9F2C-C3CF-4CC4-A1C2-F46630A088DB.jpeg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmW8qbq3sXS7nD4temuWG5gtpRYdVJxUfTTvZd6G35ZqNm/A76E9F2C-C3CF-4CC4-A1C2-F46630A088DB.jpeg)

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@thedamus · Mar 13 '18

![E21D9B9C-D3C9-4533-AAE6-7D843565C1D8.jpeg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmbBLZjAzZ5Y4ENv8BQUZVqBWcXSbcd5JR7mTSHektLZK6/E21D9B9C-D3C9-4533-AAE6-7D843565C1D8.jpeg)

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@moeknows · Mar 18 '18

You know, I have been thinking about doing a bot of sorts as well.  I don't have the SP or a means to get it done, but it would be more of a paid manual curation service than an upvote service.

I've got to figure out a lot of the details first...then find someone to delegate to me since I am Steem poor.

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@thedamus · Mar 19 '18

Sounds interesting. Good luck!

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@tbnfl4sun · Mar 13 '18

It's always nice to get that up vote from stacks, I started delegating a long time ago because I wonder around a lot. This way everybody was getting a piece of my vote power in the community, I could see with all the new members joining and some people posting many times per week that the ROI would go down. I wonder if a posts per week limiter for users would've helped.

The only other issue I have is that some of the members with lower SP delegate to much so they don't have any vote strength for curating others work. I hope My two cents was okay, I do love our botty!

👍 buggedout

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@silvergoldbotty · Mar 14 '18

You have received an upvote from STAX. Thanks for being a member of the #steemsilvergold community and opting in (if you wish to be removed please follow the link). Please continue to support each other in this great community. To learn more about the #steemsilvergold community and STAX, [check this out.](https://steemit.com/steemsilvergold/@silvergoldbotty/introducing-stax-the-steemsilvergold-community-bot)

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@pocketechange · Mar 14 '18

$0.03

You have guts for showing us your point of view...  I won't say anything here because what I had to say, I said months ago...  If anyone missed it, I'm sorry...  That's all behind me now...
![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmf7m1kVcWuZhGVVCQ39xA5FrGbJT5L3oeZAF6yiTwFGfT/image.png)
COIN MAN by @pocketechange ...A penny may cost a dollar...

👍 pocketechange, buggedout

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properties (23)vote details (2)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
pocketechange	0 B		10,025,190,016	100%
buggedout	0 B		2,010,234,146	10%

@theb3ar · Mar 14 '18

I'm new...I'll keep my mouth shut....but you got a standing ovation from me in my house sir! 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

👍 buggedout

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properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
buggedout	0 B		3,216,374,634	15%

@pit-bullion · Mar 14 '18

Great post and ideas man. We will get this thing hashed out 👍

properties (22)

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`author`	pit-bullion
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`created`	2018-03-14 14:46:39
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@strenue · Mar 15 '18

Awesome post @buggedout!  Thanks so much for clearly explaining how @silvergoldbotty works.  I have never fully understood the membership levels etc.  I am also a member of #teamaustralia and @centerlink is very clear how it works.

I love the #steemsilvergold community, but have always found the @silvergoldbotty membership and voting to be confusing.  It would be awesome to have a true community bot for #steemsilvergold.  @silvergoldbotty would be great, but it sounds like there would need to be some governance changes for this to occur.

I will watch this space patiently to see how it all pans out.  In the mean time, I will keep stacking, keep sharing under the #steemsilvergold tag and upvoting @silvergoldbotty (STAX) with the hope that will move towards becoming a true community bot.

👍 strenue

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properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
strenue	0 B		740,827,225	100%

@grumpycat · Mar 18 '18

$43.51

https://steemitimages.com/DQmP6XyEEaeWziX1HVhzBqPg1d52Pczu3Y7MgJCMyNYMxkx/image.png

**You have received a @GrumpyCat flag** because you or someone else sent money to buy votes from an irresponsible non-GrumpyCompliant service.

@pushup and @sneaky-ninja are acting irresponsibly by selling votes to people on their post very close to final payout. (~99% abuse rate)

Sending money to these bots is also financially supporting for-profit spammers.

To know what voting bot to use, refer to https://steembottracker.com/ and use those that have 3.5 day or less in the "Max Age" column.
**Important,** The above bots have made no effort to comply for months so the votes they sell might still be targeted even if they change their Max Age to 3.5 day.
### [Learn more ...](https://steemit.com/abuse/@grumpycat/non-gumpycompliant-vote-sellers-are-now-to-be-used-exclusively-to-profit-from-the-reward-pool)

👍 madpuppy, grumpycat, bloom, penghuren, drakos
👎 r351574nc3, zipporah, shadowspub, fersher, slowgrow, jasuly, frankreynolds, blogboss

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properties (23)vote details (13)

voter	rshares	pct
shadowspub	-6,260,956,022	-10%
bloom	198,905,600,825	50%
drakos	0	0%
fersher	-612,310,827	-100%
slowgrow	-600,067,673	-100%
grumpycat	4,150,172,214,553	100%
r351574nc3	-51,832,959,420	-100%
penghuren	4,083,504,238	45.1%
zipporah	-6,931,830,150	-25%
frankreynolds	-122,825,794	-100%
blogboss	-122,746,680	-100%
jasuly	-242,224,227	-100%
madpuppy	8,503,653,235,237	100%

@moeknows · Mar 18 '18

$1.28

So far, this month, @grumpycat has voted himself for $ 8175.57 SBD using his main account and his sock account, madpuppy (proof is on the blockchain).  The day before he made this comment, he upvoted himself on the final day 5 times.  He is the abuse he claims to fight against.

👍 drakos, firedream, enchantedspirit

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properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
drakos	345,151,064,903	30%
enchantedspirit	12,202,284,603	100%
firedream	18,684,027,727	100%

@the-resistance · Mar 19 '18

re-grumpycat-re-buggedout-steemsilvergold-and-silvergoldbotty-clarifying-the-controversy-20180318t074615466z-20180319t085115669z

### WE ARE THE RESISTANCE!

@GrumpyCat

* You are flagging innocent people and calling them "collateral damage"!
* You are trying to impose your rules by using your SP on ones weaker than you!
* You have rejected all the diplomatic proposals we have brought so far!

Your self upvote is flagged by The-Resistance team using the WE-RESIST bot.
We will be resisting with a team, stronger each day, unless you stop downvoting innocent people.

https://steemitimages.com/256x512/https://steemitimages.com/DQmasLjbAiiPJKeiM6GHZRb9bgghMLQKP4iiUp3jCdkVJyS/image.png
### To your tyranny WE-RESIST

The Resistance
Discord: https://discord.gg/qMWCbWR

👍 baninduana

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properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
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