Education, Healthcare, etc are a RIGHT... or so they claim by dwinblood

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· @dwinblood · (edited)
$25.56
Education, Healthcare, etc are a RIGHT... or so they claim
![steemit.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmaVfj41GKzaNP8MQAuZ87i75R6uG795kCNNRxxzKaHa7t/steemit.jpg)
To continue with my <a href="https://steemit.com/philosophy/@dwinblood/it-s-free-i-tell-you-what-about-the-taxes-i-pay">It's Free I Tell you</a> post I wrote earlier, when I was looking for images to make my initial image collage I saw the common "*Healthcare is a right*", and "*Education is a right*" images and memes.

That is what I choose to talk about in this post.    Something being a RIGHT does not mean it is done for you automatically without any effort on your part.    It also does not mean it is free.

You do not get to enslave people to do work for you because you believe something is a right.

If you have to pay for something does that suddenly mean it is no longer a right?   The answer to that is no.

What most of these people talking about things as a right are actually saying is they believe it should be free, and that there should be absolutely no barriers to them accessing those "services".

In reality, when you are born you have the right to try to survive.   There is no magical service genie following each of us around and creating people to provide us services.    You do not have a right to those things if they require someone else to do them for you.

What we would like to see for people when they are born is equal OPPORTUNITY.    We would like the OPPORTUNITIES to do things to be available to everyone.    That does not mean everyone will choose to take advantage of those opportunities.   It does not mean that people should be forced to take every opportunity that comes their way.    Opportunity also does not mean free.   It means that if a new service becomes available, everyone should have the opportunity to use it.     There can and be a price or some kind of exchange that may be required before you can use that service but we should strive for that being an equal exchange.     Though I do not advocate forcing equality upon people, if a service provider chooses not to be equal then that should be spread far and wide and hopefully people would seek out or even create their own competing service provider.     That really is a different discussion though and perhaps I should not have brought that into this.    I mainly did as the Devil's Advocate in me usually runs parallel to my thinking while I am writing and I try to anticipate some WHAT IFs and things people might try to say to poke holes into my ideas.    In some cases I try to address them as I think of them.

I do this as so often I'll see a topic get derailed and people focus too much on the WHAT IFs and completely miss the core point of the idea.     So I try to address the WHAT IFs if I think of them and they can be made fit solely with the intent of trying to keep people from fixating on such things and instead focus on the core idea.

Here that core idea is that really we have very little actual RIGHTS.    We also do not always have equal opportunity simply due to the conditions of our birth.    Artificially trying to insure this is not the case can do damage in the attempt to do good.

Rather than wanting free hand outs, and to subsidize things and to demand that things are a right, when they actually are not.

We should be providing opportunity where possible, and providing education and assistance for people to try to overcome barriers to opportunity.    These should never be forced, but be voluntary.    When you force something to back that force up usually requires TAKING from someone else.    This is a fight to try to make someone equal in opportunity, while you are taking away equality and opportunity from someone else.    Often it may be because they happened to have had great success, and they also may or may not have achieved that success with great effort.

You having a perceived "right" to healthcare, education, etc does not mean you should have the "right" to enter people's homes open up their wallets and take the money out of that wallet you think is necessary to pay for it.    Yet in reality that is exactly what people stating their right for anything they believe they should have for free are asking for.

They are asking for the government to steal from other people to pay for the thing they believe they should have.

It is a world where people increasingly take less and less self-responsibility and instead expect the government to shelter them from responsibility.     This can only be achieved by stepping all over other people, and in most cases things that would be considered criminal acts if they were done by anyone that didn't have the name "government".    Yet that label suddenly makes it okay to be a criminal.    At least as long as you're giving me the "free" things I want and giving me more "rights" to things I want.

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@randr10 · (edited)
I would argue that those things aren't even rights at all.  They're luxuries and privileges, and you're no more entitled to them than you are to a Bentley and a mansion with a ten car garage to park it in.
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@dwinblood ·
I would agree.   I believe in giving equal opportunity.   Yet that simply means that the guy with the Bentley has to do the same thing I have to do to get a "service".     That doesn't mean geographical variables, and other variables might not make that more difficult for some... perhaps even the guy in the Bentley depending upon where he chooses to live.    It is no ones right to FORCE other people to service them.
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@automaton ·
What happens if your able to 3d print that mansion/Bentley...for free?? Are they luxuries or a right?
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@randr10 ·
TNSTAAFL = There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

There will always be some resources allocated to producing Bentleys.  I'm not sure what the relevance is to my original point anyway.
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@randr10 ·
Another thought I had about this as well was that your "free" Bentley would be comparable to the air we breathe.  I don't think people refer to air as a right *or* a privilege.  It's just something we consume.  The resources expended to consume it are so minuscule we rarely think about how we're going to get the resources to breathe it.  I would say that the rights are more appropriately applied to be free from interference from consuming air.  I am free to breathe.  That's a right.  I don't have a right to the air because I'm the one responsible for breathing it.
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@dragon40 ·
I do not believe health care OR education are a right.
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@dwinblood · (edited)
EDIT: Ignore this... I missed the word NOT in your sentence. :)


How so?   Did you pop out of the womb and someone mysteriously said you would get health care and education?    Furthermore, education happens continuously and doesn't actually require a building or a specific teacher.   Life is the teacher.

What you are really likely endorsing is equal opportunity to healthcare, and education.

That is not a right.    That is simple equal opportunity.   Meaning the door is not closed to you.

An example of this would be the Pre-Existing Condition B.S.    That really is an artificial barrier.   It blocks opportunity.    Yet it has nothing to do with rights.

When you are born... you breathe, you cry, and hopefully your parents protect you until you can protect yourself.

All life really presents us is the right to try to survive.

The rest are artificial constructs we have created.
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@dragon40 ·
Again: I do not believe either are "rights."  Equal opportunity, absolutely.
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@dwinblood ·
You can ignore my response.... somehow I missed the word NOT in your sentence.
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@dragon40 ·
I wondered about that :-)
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@lukestokes ·
Well said. "Rights" are just made up ideas by primates who happened to figure out language. Nothing is owed to anyone by the universe. That said, as conscious beings, the expanding circle of empathy continues to include more real estate which is why the idea of healthcare, food, shelter, clothing, etc are being put into the "rights" category. For me, this comes back to <a href="https://steemit.com/life/@lukestokes/how-to-improve-the-world">Maslow's Hierarchy of needs</a>. As more of us move up the hierarchy, the more we can help others move up and begin to restructure society to ensure everyone gets opportunities. As you said, just having access to opportunities isn't all there is. People have to take advantage of them. Even then, though, can people really "choose" to work harder? That brings up another interesting discussion about <a href="https://steemit.com/philosophy/@lukestokes/determining-determinism">materialistic determinism</a>.

Great thoughts as always, @dwinblood.
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@dwinblood ·
$0.90
Yes, I didn't want to come across as a compassion-less jerk.   It is good to see you and others understand what I was getting at.

Compassion is fine and we should use it.   Yet it has nothing to do with rights.

I feel bad when I see someone hurting and I want to help them.   That is my compassion, and it has absolutely nothing to do with rights.

I like to see people succeed and will try to help them if I can.   That also has nothing to do with rights.    That has to do with my choices.
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@philosophy-trail ·
$1.68
Currently I think our rights are basically limited to breathing and thinking.  The rest is whatever we demand and are willing to take/fight for and not accept a lack of having.
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@dwinblood ·
Basically true.  That is my thought as well.   That doesn't mean we cannot choose to artificially help each other.   Yet we should not mistake that for rights.
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@thatgermandude ·
> If you have to pay for something does that suddenly mean it is no longer a right? The answer to that is no.

I disagree. If i have to pay a 1.000€ to speak my mind freely, I lost the right of free speech.

I would agree tho that "education/healthcare is a right" are empty platitudes. You could define educated as being able to read and write and thus only elementary school is a right (and free ;)).

education and healthcare are both privileges that we try to provide fairly and beneficial to the people.
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@dwinblood ·
>I disagree. If i have to pay a 1.000€ to speak my mind freely, I lost the right of free speech.

Yeah that's not likely to happen and is also not a "service" that is you doing something for yourself.

Nice try though. :)   It is a good attempt to poke a hole in it but it is not a service if you do it yourself.

There is nothing stopping you from attempting to educate yourself with whatever you have access to, nothing stopping you from trying to medically heal yourself with whatever you have access to.

Services are offered by other people or performed by other people in your behalf.
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@thatgermandude · (edited)
actually there are things that you could consider "locked up knowledge". It is rare, but some knowledge about explosives and nuclear energy are not available to the public.

It might also shock you that I would love to try a completely free medical market. Nowadays it is very corrupt through pharma and insurance. Insurance companies make money soley out of the "customers" payments. And you are forced to have insurance in Germany. It is f*cked up. I want it all gone..

People are focusing always on the huge accidents that might happen. first of all if you were to keep all the money you pay for insurance and save it up yourself, you might be able to pay a 10.000€ operation.
Secondly Doctors are also human, they will find a way to honor their outh if they get more freedom. Doctors are drowning in bureaucracy nowadays in Germany.
👍  
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