RE: Is Steem Centrally Controlled? by smooth

View this thread on steempeak.com

Viewing a response to: @pharesim/re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t191449144z

· @smooth · (edited)
$0.11
Not correct. The changes in HF9 literally reset all the keys of the _suspected_ compromised accounts (which is why johan's fork was nearly a clone of it). 

In fact, this was done using a crude filter (all accounts with key changes in a certain time window) and I'm pretty sure that some non-compromised accounts were also reset (I was at risk of having some of my own accounts reset which would have resulted in significant financial losses to and raised this objection at the time, although as it turned out, luckily, my accounts were not within the window). 

Steemit deemed this an acceptable cost for what they wanted to accomplish, and forced the fork through without non-Steemit witness approval, which I'm pretty sure had a lot to do with getting _their own_ accounts back after they were compromised (since they were irresponsible in not using a posting key to access the website with their own enormous-stake accounts)

Only later was the "account recovery" feature added, which implemented a model that served Steemit's purposes but still likely would have resulted in substantial losses to me (were my key changes not fortunate enough to be outside the window by sheer luck).

IMO the view of "property rights" that Steemit is invoking is selectively self-serving at best, and also doesn't reflect an accurate view of how forks work anyway.
👍  , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id68,998,070
authorsmooth
permlinkre-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t203648500z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-01-18 20:36:51
last_update2019-01-18 20:37:45
depth2
children8
net_rshares181,267,356,248
last_payout2019-01-25 20:36:51
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.080 SBD
curator_payout_value0.026 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,352
author_reputation119,002,354,889,508
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (5)
@pharesim · (edited)
How does my statement contradict that? The keys were reset with the goal to restore access for the rightful owners, opposed to completely blocking access which is what was suggested in the recent discussion.

Probably users were lucky that stinc was affected too, yes. Still, it was not about locking someone out of their own account.

//edit:
Okay, now I see how i worded that wrongly. My focus was more on the intentions than on the actual HF code. Technically keys had to be reset to restore access. They were not nullified to keep the owner out though, resetting them was just the first step of the process and not the end goal.
👍  ,
properties (23)
post_id68,998,488
authorpharesim
permlinkre-smooth-re-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t205105873z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-01-18 20:51:09
last_update2019-01-18 20:58:06
depth3
children1
net_rshares7,679,288,943
last_payout2019-01-25 20:51:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length632
author_reputation281,838,293,126,444
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@smooth ·
$1.24
Intentions are frankly invisible and unknowable. 

IMO (though still not knowable) the primary intention of the whole ordeal was restoring Ned and Dan's accounts after they lost them by being extremely irresponsible. The primary cause of the loss was not a bug, as such (broad category of) bugs were entirely foreseen and even expected, and may well happen again even now. It was irresponsibility on the part of Dan and Ned. All of us at the time, including you, were well aware of the importance of using a posting key to access the web site with large accounts, and not an owner key.

The 'property rights' of those who were not irresponsible and stood to lose (and probably in some cases did lose) as a result of their actions were considered less important by an unaccountable central party who decided thus unilaterally and without even giving witnesses as chance to balance the competing interests. That sort of unilateral authority and action (which still exists) is a bigger existential threat to the blockchain than a broken web site leaking keys which never should have been put in the web site in the first place.
👍  , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id69,000,028
authorsmooth
permlinkre-pharesim-re-smooth-re-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t214905900z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-01-18 21:49:09
last_update2019-01-18 21:49:09
depth4
children0
net_rshares2,113,102,050,835
last_payout2019-01-25 21:49:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.932 SBD
curator_payout_value0.309 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,124
author_reputation119,002,354,889,508
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (6)
@lukestokes ·
You don't see working to restore _suspected_ compromised accounts an act of protecting property rights? As I said in my post, I wasn't a witness at the time and yes, I know Steemit was using their stake to vote for witnesses prior to HF17 which is why this stake issue is such a big deal to begin with. If they do full power downs and remove the connection between their stake and Steemit, Inc the company, then we'll back where we started with Steemit, Inc actively controlling witnesses directly.

I understand how hard it is to bootstrap effective governance models (been working on it since April with eosDAC), so I can understand some early decisions needed to protect the ecosystem (and, as you said their own accounts). I agree, they were stupid to not be using posting keys.
properties (22)
post_id68,998,883
authorlukestokes
permlinkre-smooth-re-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t210242401z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-01-18 21:02:42
last_update2019-01-18 21:02:42
depth3
children5
net_rshares0
last_payout2019-01-25 21:02:42
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length782
author_reputation395,063,281,398,324
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@smooth · (edited)
$0.52
> You don't see working to restore suspected compromised accounts an act of protecting property rights?

Protecting _some_ property rights by compromising _others_, where the central authority gets to decide which take precedence over others? Not really sure I am sold on that vision of 'property rights', in fact I'm pretty sure I am not sold on it.

> As I said in my post, I wasn't a witness at the time and yes, I know Steemit was using their stake to vote for witnesses prior to HF17

No, that is a different matter. Some Steemit employees were voting, including (but I believe not entirely) with stake that was vested from the ninja-mine.

In the case of HF9, it was the literal `steemit` account which immediately and without warning or discussion voted out all witnesses and pushed through the fork which reset keys on a wide swath of accounts, some compromised, some not. The witness discussion on the topic was literally "What's going on?" There is no way that you can say witnesses supported it, because there was no discussion or voting.

As I stated, there was a very real risk that I and others could have had our property lost and that only didn't happen due to luck (in my case a difference of a few hours). Steemit unilaterally decided that their own 'property rights' (really a misnomer when viewed through the lens of being the subject of one party's arbitrary decision) were more important than mine and others'.
👍  , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id68,999,881
authorsmooth
permlinkre-lukestokes-re-smooth-re-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t214156900z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-01-18 21:42:00
last_update2019-01-18 22:51:36
depth4
children4
net_rshares881,130,444,288
last_payout2019-01-25 21:42:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.388 SBD
curator_payout_value0.128 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,432
author_reputation119,002,354,889,508
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (5)
@themanwithnoname ·
The whole reason there was a discussion about changing the number of witness votes was to close the loophole where Steemit Inc could (again) elect the required number of witnesses for consensus, wasn't it?
properties (22)
post_id69,000,500
authorthemanwithnoname
permlinkre-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-smooth-re-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t220403291z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"community":"busy","app":"busy\/2.5.6","format":"markdown","tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"users":[],"links":[]}
created2019-01-18 22:04:06
last_update2019-01-18 22:04:06
depth5
children2
net_rshares0
last_payout2019-01-25 22:04:06
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length205
author_reputation25,835,818,340,322
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@lukestokes ·
$0.30
Thank you for clarifying the history of what actually happened. Based on what you said, this line in my post is not accurate:

> The witnesses at that time supported the fork in order to protect property rights (at least, that's my impression, I wasn't a witness at the time).

I'll edit it. Thank you as always for spending the time to clarify things for accuracy.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id69,001,367
authorlukestokes
permlinkre-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-smooth-re-pharesim-re-lukestokes-is-steem-centrally-controlled-20190118t224306091z
categorystopthepowerdown
json_metadata{"tags":["stopthepowerdown"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-01-18 22:43:06
last_update2019-01-18 22:43:06
depth5
children0
net_rshares509,401,997,356
last_payout2019-01-25 22:43:06
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.223 SBD
curator_payout_value0.074 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length365
author_reputation395,063,281,398,324
root_title"Is Steem Centrally Controlled?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)