NASA is Testing a Space Drive that Defies the Laws of Physics by sykochica

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· @sykochica · (edited)
$18.07
NASA is Testing a Space Drive that Defies the Laws of Physics
<center>http://i.imgur.com/qJUHnkX.jpg</center>
Even though nobody has an idea of how these new engines actually work, some tests from NASA are showing that they do. The ["EM Drive."](http://emdrive.com/) doesn't use or require any sort of fuel to produce thrust, instead it bounces microwaves into a closed chamber that ideally will push a spacecraft. The theory behind this goes against [Newtons third law of Motion](http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/momentum/Lesson-2/The-Law-of-Action-Reaction-(Revisited)) that says for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The EM Drive isn't believed to be causing an action, yet is still creating the reaction (i.e. the thrust.) 

>Weirdly, the EmDrive doesn’t expel anything at all, and that doesn’t make sense in light of Newton’s third law or another tenet of classical mechanics, the conservation of momentum. If the EmDrive moves forward without expelling anything out the back, then there’s no opposing force to explain the thrust. It’s a bit like arguing that a person inside a car could propel it forward by repeatedly hitting the steering wheel, or that the crew of a spaceship could fly the craft to their destination simply by pushing on the walls.
>-[Source](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/11/nasa-impossible-emdrive-physics-peer-review-space-science/)

<center>http://i.imgur.com/LcgkK2S.jpg</center>
Why this is so exciting is that the need of **carrying rocket fuel has been THE limiting factor** of how far we can travel from Earth. Since there are no "gas stations" in space, each spacecraft has to launch with what it needs. What we run into here is that to carry extra fuel allowing us to travel further, requires more fuel to actually launch the spacecraft off the earth. Couple this with it costing roughly $10,000 per 1 pound and it becomes way to expensive to just load it up with extra "gas tanks."

This is where the EM Drive comes in. It needs zero fuel to be carried with it, running solely on electricity that can be generated with solar panels. Should this research pan out, many think that this could provide us with the ability to travel to places previous thought to out of reach. Some people have also been claiming that this could be the key to developing [**"Warp Drives"**](http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/emdrive-news-rumors/) like we've seen in popular science fiction shows.

>First designed in 2001 by aerospace engineer Roger Shawyer, the technology can be summed up as a propellantless propulsion system, meaning the engine doesn’t use fuel to cause a reaction. Removing the need for fuel makes a craft substantially lighter, and therefore easier to move (and cheaper to make, theoretically). In addition, the hypothetical drive is able to reach extremely high speeds — we’re talking potentially getting humans to the outer reaches of the solar system in a matter of months.
>-[Source](http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/emdrive-news-rumors/)

So let's take a minute to see where the testing of this new technology is currently. Most the time when there is a claim that a something is breaking the laws of physics, it turns out to not be the case when more in depth testing is performed and calculations are checked. However just because something doesn't follow our current understanding of how the universe works, doesn't always make it false either. Once in a while something amazing is found when our current models say something we see happening shouldn't be, such as relativity or quantum mechanics. This is how new leaps in science are sometimes made.

<center><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4hTdSg47h3k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></center>

The inventor of the EM Drive, Roger Shawyer, build a prototype in 2003 to demonstrate the generation of thrust which measured about 16 milliNewtons (the weight of about two peanuts.) He was at first attacked by skeptics more on a conceptual basis versus actually delving in to test his experiment directly, purely saying that it breaks Newtons third law, so it would never work. Shawyer still kept going to create more advanced demonstrations that to ensure ["that the test results are valid and not the result of air currents, friction, ionization, interference or electromagnetic effects."](http://www.wired.co.uk/article/emdrive-and-cold-fusion)

In 2009 a group of Chinese scientists at the Northwestern Polytechnic University in Xi'an confirmed they built an EM Drive and ["were able to produce 720 milliNewtons of force — but even then, nobody really believed it."](http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/nasa-confirms-impossible-space-drive-actually-works-revolutionize-space-travel/)  This thrust would move the equivalent of a modern cell phone. Their paper titled "Net thrust measurement of propellantless microwave thruster" has been translated into English and is [available to read.](http://www.emdrive.com/yang-juan-paper-2012.pdf) The US hasn't always believed claims from the Chinese, often believing them to be somewhat outlandish.

Recently NASA released the [research paper with their findings](http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120) and published their findings in a peer reviewed [Journal of Propulsion and Power.](http://arc.aiaa.org/loi/jpp) While this doesn't mean that the science and experimentation behind this will turn out to be correct, it has at least been signed off on by other scientists that attest to it being reasonable. NASA's experiment was tested at 40, 60 and 80 Watt power levels, with the conclusion being that their test engine produced 1.2 milliNewtons of thrust per kilowatt in a vacuum. Putting this into perspective, the state of the art drive in use by NASA produces 60 milliNewtons per kW (think of the engines on the space shuttle) and the other fuel-less options such as the [solar sail,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail) [laser propulsion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_propulsion) or [photon rockets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonic_laser_thruster)  create thrust per unit of power in the ranges of 0.0033–0.0067  mN/kW.

#### <center>You can watch an excellent 3 minute video covering the [NASA tests here!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWfeE7l1Wxo)</center>

In the end I find this an intriguing line of research to follow with the great potential it might provide for us should it turn out to be true. With the current tiny amounts of thrust being tested, there are a lot of external factors that could be causing the effect instead of the drive itself. Even in the [NASA paper](http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120) there are 9 sources of error that they touch on that could invalidate their findings including air currents, radio frequency interference, magnetic interaction, thermal expansion/contraction, vibration, electrostatic interaction, gassing, photon rocket force/radio frequency leakage, and uncertainty in impulsive/thermal signal decoupling. 

Regardless, I will be watching this research as time goes along and see what the experimenters and peer reviewers find on this possible game changing technology.


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vote details (154)
@williambanks ·
This is great but it doesn't really defy the laws of physics  The real problem is that we don't really know what set of laws make it tick.  It's also possible that it's pointing the way to new physics.
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@sykochica ·
To a large degree it's the researchers themselves that are saying that it's not actually ejecting anything for thrust, with the microwaves more just being contained within the chamber itself. I can agree with you though, that it something actually works, it's not defying physics, more just challenging our current understanding of it.

We still have to see if this is the case or if there was some error involved. They are talking of trying to get a space test in place in the future that might help shed some light on it.
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@williambanks ·
There was a really solid paper not too long ago that explained it as possibly inducing a standing wave in the adjacent molecules.  Basically the "thrust" then is the surrounding air pushing on it like a colon.

I'm excited to see the results from space, because if it works in space then that theory is tossed.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@brianphobos ·
I hope they can build these EM drives at large scale.  We are still learning everyday!
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@sykochica ·
It would definitely be pretty cool if the theory involved does hold when scaled up into larger tests. I've watched solar sail uses for a long time, but this would be a whole new ball of wax to get around the 'carrying fuel' problem.

And it'd be sweet to actually hear someday say 'engage warp drive' should it lead to that. lol
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@barrydutton ·
Get one of those and come visit me with a pizza for Christmas lol

I just put up a post about Consumerism a min. ago -- hoping you don't need to do that in order to get that rocket 

(:
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@everittdmickey · (edited)
__The Space Power Facility at NASA Glenn Research Center's Plum Brook Station in Sandusky, Ohio, houses the world's largest vacuum chamber. It measures 100 feet in diameter and is a towering 122 feet tall.__
Get a rope.  
Attach the rope to the top of the vacuum chamber....122 foot up. Stick the EM drive in a container...seal it tight.  Lift the container containing the drive with the rope about ten foot off the floor...a pendulum.  
Close the door, pump out the air, turn on the drive.
If the rope moves away from vertical..the drive works.
If not..then it don't.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@justtryme90 ·
Until there are some reasonable simple tests done on this drive, I remain skeptical.  I don't expect it to actually work, but am certainly open to being pleasantly surprised. Anyway, it needs to be tested, it hasn't been adequately, so people are getting excited way too early.
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@sykochica ·
I'm not far off here. I'm skeptical until we can see that it's actually 'working' versus being caused by something else or an error, especially with the current forces being tiny. It's not as 'grabby' an article to write about though from the skeptic point of view...which I did try to provide a view point for. 

I merely want to follow the followup experiments, whether it be in a the vacuum chamber everitt mentioned (which I'm curious the effect gravity might have) and/or in space/zero-gravity.
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@renzoarg ·
you may want to check homemade builds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbf7735o3hQ
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@liliammori ·
Interesante artículo: Un poco de información en español. EmDrive (también propulsor de cavidad resonante RF) es un motor inventado por el ingeniero británico Roger Shawyer, fundador de la compañía Satellite Propulsion Research Ltd (SPR) en el año 2000 para desarrollar su proyecto.1 2 El motor usa un magnetrón para producir microondas que son dirigidas a un recipiente metálico, cónico, completamente cerrado y capaz de aislar la radiación funcionando como una cavidad resonante. Este recipiente tendría forma de cono truncado por dos caras, una cara mayor por donde se produciría el empuje y una cara menor donde se encontraría un resonador dieléctrico. El aparato requeriría una fuente de energía eléctrica para producir las microondas que se reflejan en el interior pero no tiene ninguna parte móvil ni requiere ningún propelente. Si se comprueba que esta tecnología funciona, podría usarse para propulsar vehículos en cualquier forma de viaje, incluyendo transporte terrestre, marítimo, submarino, aéreo y espacial.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive
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@sykochica ·
¡Gracias!
Nunca pienso incluir la información traducida.
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@builderofcastles ·
The laws of physics are just fine.

The ideas of materialist physics has another hit, in its inevitable decline to the rubbish heap.  Everything they teach in today's physics class is wrong.  Demonstrably wrong.  Backed by bad tests that were fraudulent, but accepted as gospel.

imho, they cannot die soon enough.
👍  
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@sykochica ·
While I can get what you're saying in the sense of there are things 'behind the curtain' of what is being taught in classes, the things they do teach do hold within certain areas. For example Newtonian physics work extremely well until thing get too massive or fast/energetic with even relativity and quantum mechanics models breaking down in black holes.

I don't know if we could necessarily call things 'wrong' as much as not fully generalized to all situations. There's always going to be that next thing for us to detect, model, and ideally understand.
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@builderofcastles ·
Lets consider that the scientists of yore lied about gravity.
That the one guy, in his barn, didn't actually figure out the gravitational constant.
That there is no such thing.
That what we are held to the ground by is a constant flow of aether downward.

If you take that, then newtonian physics only works in a small space between heaven and earth at low velocities relative to earth.  And, it is only an approximation at that.

So, if it is aether, and not mass, then we have a faulty understanding from the ground up.  And we will never become more advanced.  I have questioned all of the foundations of "modern" physics and found them lacking.  As in, they do not hold up to scrutiny or to data.
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@builderofcastles ·
Here is a better example.  Imagine a device that will protect a house in times of war.

You take this box, plug it into the wall, and when the bombs drop near your house, they just go thud.  No BOOOM.

What will you think about Newtonian physics then?  This device is already in the works.
Again, The laws of physics are just fine.  What they teach in physics class is wrong.
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@inertia ·
![](https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-83a2c6f36cf914f1868e2528e23a7f2f-c?convert_to_webp=true)
👍  ,
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@sykochica ·
Lol! Yes! Beep Beep
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@l0k1 ·
I learned about the EM drive earlier this year and I came up with the idea that a cloud of chaotic electrons around matter causes gravity through an equilibrium effect mathematically the same as surface tension.  My hypothesis is that all motion against gravity is caused by a specific nanostructured electron motion - similar to magnetism but not toroidal, it is like little bubbles. Heat engines make propulsion first by the chaotic motion during the reaction of electrons. The EM drive works by creating this chaotic structure without using a chemical reaction, with only magnetic fields at very high rates of oscillation, higher than cosmic rays.
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@sykochica ·
That's interesting! I can follow what you're saying...I've got to think on that one.
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