How hardfork 20 changes commenting rewards by themarkymark

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hardfork20 · @themarkymark · (edited)
$30.80
How hardfork 20 changes commenting rewards
View this post on Hive: [How hardfork 20 changes commenting rewards](https://hive.blog/@themarkymark/how-hardfork-20-changes-commenting-rewards)
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vote details (2866)
@crystalhuman · 
Why STEEM whyyyyy??!! lol  I thought it was supposed to be getting better?  :D
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@abh12345 ·
$0.37
Yup.

I can see myself opening tabs up, writing replies ready to submit at around 15 mins with a vote, and forgetting.

That's for the replies I would consider voting for.  The rest will either be ignored or replied to right away.
πŸ‘  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@danielsaori · 
Automation could come in handy here. But just sad it has to be that way...
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@themarkymark ·
$0.06
This can be handled by third-party front ends by buffering votes until 15 minutes for comments.  I know certain front ends already buffer comments for 3 seconds for next block.
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vote details (3)
@kaylinart ·
$0.21
I agree, As a forgetful person myself. I could see this regularily happening.
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@sugamadhiakri · 
https://steemit.com/busy/@sugamadhiakri/why-hard-fork-20-is-a-failure-everyone-will-agree-on-this

I'm not spamming to get an upvote. I just want to express the difficulties faced by the new users and I want it to get noticed.
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@felt.buzz · 
Yeah, the effect on comments is my biggest concern. I am also worried about Newbies and their RC levels. Comments used to be the way they engaged with established users but if they struggle to comment because they have used up their RC this is a problem. Thanks for letting me know about the vote burn. I think I have already burnt some steem on quick comment response. Bugger.
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@cryptoandcoffee ·
$0.29
Hi Mark. Waited for the 15 minute mark and it is a little more hands on now. I never really cared about when I voted but making more of an effort to actually think about it now.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@themarkymark · (edited)
and I want to vote your comment, but it's 2 minutes old.  My $1 vote is now worth 13 cents, and I get $0 in curation rewards.

https://i.imgur.com/Rine6ys.png

A good example here. I'll likely forget about this by the time it gets closer to 15 minutes, especially since I'm going to bed.
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@cryptoandcoffee · 
Good point. Was wandering why some peoples comments I voted on were different with curation so must remember to wait on comments as well. Makes sense now. Have already voted on a comment straight away recently now will remember to wait. Thanks you have been a big help.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@shanibeer · 
This gets more like work everyday. We have lots of newcomers in one of our community, they struggle with understanding the votes at full power scenario never mind anything more complicated.
On the plus side, I guess it does encourage good internet hygiene - maybe checking your responses once or twice a day, rather than continually on.
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@tcpolymath ·
$0.32
>Under Hard Fork 20, a $1 vote at 1 minute turns into a $0.06 vote to the author

I don't think this is correct. $0.75 still goes to the author regardless of when you cast it, it's just a question of where the curation rewards go. 

It is nice to see someone else complaining about this, though, as I've been kind of getting tired of it. :)
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@isnochys · 
It seems we all complain a lot about hf20 these days.
The only thing, next to showing up all errors and miscalculations in HF20, is to remove our witness votes from the top20 witnesses, who all agreed to it and found nothing wrong with it. 
Not one opposed it. 
All went immediately to the next version. 
It looks as if T20 witnesses are super fast at code review and testing. 

But on the other hand.. 
You already vote for good witnesses and rarely any t20
No need for me to preach here.. Sorry:)
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@tcpolymath ·
$0.04
I don't mind. I figured out a while ago that my vote is meaningful to witnesses outside the top 20 - it increases their chances of getting a block - and almost meaningless to those in the top group.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@danielsaori ·
$0.14
Yes, that's how I understand it as well. It is the curation reward that will turn into dust. The author will now always get 75% of the reward. So early voting will no longer bump the reward to the author. For the curator there is no change compared to HF19, except for the threshold decrease to 15min.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@themarkymark · (edited)
That's how I understood it should be, but I was not seeing that right after the hard fork landed on the 25th.  I ended up removing the vote and re-executing it like an hour after the post and it registered as a full vote.  I'm starting to suspect something was fixed between v0.20.2 and where we are now.

In fact, now that I think of it, I think the vote was right before HF20 was launched.  It was after HF20 when I noticed the vote didn't count but was on the post.
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@themarkymark · (edited)
$1.09
> I don't think this is correct. $0.75 still goes to the author regardless of when you cast it, it's just a question of where the curation rewards go.

That is not how I have been seeing it.  I just posted this comment and immediately upvoted it 100%.  (~$1 vote).  I had a post the other day after the fork that had an auto vote, and it showed the full vote value, then not long later the vote changed from ~$10 to $0.04.  (Will see how this comment pays out).  I can't explain why it shows $10 initially, then an hour later it was $0.04 but that would fit the scenario I explained.

* https://i.imgur.com/FXiiEBX.png

Test
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@tcpolymath · 
If so this is a bug. It's not intended behavior.
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@yuninho · 
Interesting experiment. Let's see the result. I'll keep an eye on it too. Thanks
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@funbobby51 · 
interesting, lets see what happens if you upvote this comment 100% ;)
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@crokkon · 
That sounds really strange! Could you link the corresponding comments here?
from $10 to $0.04 is a huge step, but certain fluctuations on the pending payout value are certainly expected from the general lack of voting stake in the last couple of days.
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@mindtrap ·
$0.26
It's really nice explanation there Mark, although I think that the votes (either it is for the comments or the post itself) are not affected at all. 

What IS affected though, is the curation rewards for each vote. Meaning that your 1$ vote on a comment will still be 1$ even under the first minute but the curation rewards for that comment if it is voted within the first minute, drastically reduces.

If I am wrong plz someone correct me here
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@phoenixwren · 
Frack.  I wish they hadn't messed with the timing at all if this is the result.  Just kill self voting even being possible if that's the concern.
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@dera123 · 
The problem is not self voting it's the problem that self voting reduced the amount of curation for other people because it shifted a big portion to the author. It was planned that 25% of the voting get back to the curators but in the end it was less than 25% because some % went directly to the author. And that's what they are trying to fix.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
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@brianphobos · 
You can't kill self voting because people will just run multiple accounts and shift power to the secondary account for voting instead of their main account that they post from.
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@themarkymark · (edited)
That wouldn't work as you would burn the curation regardless who made the vote if voting inside of 15 minutes.
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@mardax · (edited)
I think there will be solution if somebody like @steem-plus or @steempeak can create option to cast your vote after time. You setup thing that you wanna give somebody upvote after 20 minutes and you can go do wathever it is. After 20 minutes Steem-Plus will cast your vote for amount you wanted.
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@themarkymark · (edited)
SteemPeak already queues votes for 3 seconds to enter into a new block and been discussed to add this functionality.
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@aburashed · 
Wonderful explanation of HF20 and its merits and demerits. I will follow them.
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@council ·
fossbot voter comment
I upvoted your post. 

Best regards,
@Council

Posted using https://Steeming.com condenser site.
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@syedshahbazhusan · 
Timing is a biggest challenge
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@empress-eremmy ·
$0.03
This is certainly going to hurt user experience. We will eventually adjust, but it will take a lot of time and things may not be the same
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@rossfletcher · 
Thank you for this post. I was trying to figure this out earlier today and going round in circles with voting on posts and comments and checking to see what was happening. My vote is only worth about 4 maybe 5 cents.

 If i vote on someones post that gets no other votes besides mine there's a chance they wont get paid at all if it's less than a 2 cent payout right? I would like to support people as much as i can but i don't want to throw away votes... now my head is spinning again to compute all this and time things...
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@fr3eze · 
Then there should be room for some tools/bots to vote on the comment at certain timing(after 15min) to maximally reward the author. While the parent author can still respond as quickly as they used to be.
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@uwelang · 
Resteemed this as relevant to all users and curators - just in case voters are not aware of the 15 minutes rule and the new early selfvote penalty (bookmarkt this comment @themarkymark for a vote in 15 minutes 😎)
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@cryptoeater ·
$0.31
Hi! The behavior you have described does not seem to be intended. Only the curation rewards (25% to 0% scaling linearly for first 15 mins) is returned, so the author should still get 75%. 
![](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmV3eaaT8NLnuN6sv4egEcr51b6RQCCZXJ2f45U5Jjh2wG/image.png)

It says the "early voting penalty" is returned, which is the 25% at 0 mins, so the author should still be getting 75% (at all times instead of the old 100% to 75% scale) and curators have the same scale as before (0% to 25%). 

I hope this is correct and makes sense!
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@rubencress ·
$0.08
!pancakes
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@pancakes ·
$0.03
![](https://i.imgur.com/BAOxHxh.png)
Thanks for contacting Pancakes Express!

**Would you like to order pancakes?**

Please upvote this comment with your order:

| Upvote | Order |
| --- | --- |
| $0.01+ | random delicious pancake |
| $0.05+ | excellent pancakes suited for a king or queen |
| $0.25+ | party pancakes |
| $1+    | best pancakes we have ever made |
| $?     | it's ninja! |

If you would like to order your own pancakes, just make a comment `!pancakes` anywhere on the blockchain and we will send you a menu.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@rubencress ·
$0.08
Darn, I need to wait for my pancakes longer as well now!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@funbobby51 · 
So basically they just killed comment rewards? Brilliant, there are not enough people commenting and curating already and now they just made it pointless to do so. Is there an ideal time to self vote or is that now totally blown?
(take your time getting back to me I suppose!)
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@sergiomendes · 
Good to know. Although the majority of the times I really don't think too much on the curation rewards. I should lolol

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
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@kaylinart ·
$0.20
WHAT!? I really don't like the whole voting deal. I love to give my followers large comment votes to encourage more comments and conversation. I understand how this can be helpful in a post scenario. But bad for comments. I wish there was a difference.
πŸ‘  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@pjau · 
Gonna have to create a command for a bot to upvote the parent post with a timer and percentage. πŸ˜‚ 

!upvote 15 100
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@yoginiofoz · 
As a non-techie, it's hard for me to keep it all straight. I will just keep on reading everyone's input on the HF20 and see if I can "get it" before the next HF. Still learning still growing....even after 49 years on this gorgeous planet.
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@erode · 
OMG! I didn't noticed that comment vote is also get considered as a normal post. This is a great disadvantage *author can't support for the users who they are eagerly making a engagement.*
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@sagor5828 · 
How will this update be good for us everyone?

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
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@freebornangel · 
A vote on the 5th day is roughly equal to a vote at 15 minutes, we'll just have to review comments for voting at a point in the near future?
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@themarkymark ·
$0.03
Not really, a vote at 15 minutes get it's curation rewards and all other votes after it.  A vote at five days will get almost no curation rewards.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@freebornangel ·
$0.13
Lol, my curation rewards don't add up to enough to worry about,...that's how it is when you only vote posts with less than a dollar on them,...
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@toddrjohnson · 
I agree. This change is terrible for human beings, but does little for bots, since they can be programmed to vote at exactly the desired time. I had this concern since HF20 was announced, but sadly there is really nothing the vast majority of us can do to prevent such changes. Unless you have the majority of the SP you really don't have much of a say on the Steem blockchain. So what we have now is a clear signal that bots are more important than humans on Steem. Not a good move for a social network.

Proud member of #steemitbloggers @steemitbloggers
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@xcountytravelers · 
Thanks so much for the explanation.  When I started doing the Question of the Day, I decided to upvote each person who commented (only their initial comment).  I will definitely be waiting to upvote those comments until that first 15 minutes.  Thanks again,
Ren
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@tristancarax · 
I’m going to be down to zero voting power and have to wait five days if I upvote comments? - I won’t be doing that.

I hardly think I or other users will think that go back and vote for their favorite comments within the allotted time frame to avoid this crippling change.

Very sad turn of events on this front.
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@doomsdaychassis ·
$0.02
Hahaaaa. My scenario works great then. Comment,  move on and check steemworld.org at the end of the day and go back to upvote / respond. Lol. Finally my lazyness pays off.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@rumdancer · 
Thank you for explaining that, I have been wondering how that would work out. I still am not entirely sure what the best time to comment or to vote is anymore but, I think a lot of it comes down to being in the right place at the right time, and sometimes I don't get back on here and so I just vote when I'm there. Thats probably not the best strategy, right?
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@linnyplant · 
Okay, in amongst all the whining posts and people who are self-congratulating themselves on still being around during the HF, this is at least a useful post.  Thanks.
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@dhenz ·
$0.19
I am someone who likes to respond to comments and I upvote the ones I like, so the 15min rule for comments def bites me in the ass.
πŸ‘  ,
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@moarafatshow · 
All they had to was just make the user experience better and screw over the shit content, now at that expense they’re screwing over the user base. 

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
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@anttn · 
thanks you @themarkymark for sharing all those valuable informations, I didn't hear about yet ! That's big changes ! Have a very nice Sunday !
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@arcange · 
Congratulations @themarkymark!
Your post was mentioned in the [Steemit Hit Parade](https://steemit.com/hit-parade/@arcange/daily-hit-parade-20180929) in the following category:

* Upvotes - Ranked 1 with 2844 upvotes
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@mistakili · 
thanks for this, however, does this new system have any of such effect on votes on posts? In other words, what is the best time to vote on posts?
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@yidneth · 
Thank you for the information... sigh... I tend to try (not today cos I've been off grid in Nature) and not be shy commenting and voting (whenever) I see right away... I am going to see on the go if I can resume my normal activity and keep it up as I don't want to overthink whenever or how, or how much I should comment not be penalized :/. I agree providing feedback is a healthy practise... it's an encouraging practise to many, even to myself and for me that might be the biggest fear about the hf20. What keeps me in Steemit is engagement and of course reaching an "audience".  Thanks always for the info, Mark. Lots of popcorn and pancakes for you!
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@steem-ua · 
#### Hi @themarkymark!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your **UA** account score is currently 8.028 which ranks you at **#32** across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has not changed in the last three days.

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 477 contributions, your post is ranked at **#2**. Congratulations! 
##### Evaluation of your UA score:

* Your follower network is great!
* The readers appreciate your great work!
* Great user engagement! You rock!


**Feel free to join our [@steem-ua Discord server](https://discord.gg/KpBNYGz)**
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@cryptogee ·
$0.05
Nothing has changed @themarkymark. I have an account who votes for me at zero minutes. He has been doing this since way before HF20, possibly as far back as HF18 he started.

He is actually a friend who doesn't bother with Steemit anymore, and I've told him to change the time of his vote several times. As he get's zero rewards by voting for me on zero minutes.

The only change is who his reward goes to, before it went to me, now it goes back to the pool.

(voting up for visibility).

 [*Cg*](https://steemit.com/@cryptogee)
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
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