"Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome" (CHS) is actually Azadirachtin (neem) poisoning! by drutter

cannabis · @drutter · Aug 12 '18

$0.68

"Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome" (CHS) is actually Azadirachtin (neem) poisoning!

<center>![toxic Azadirachtin.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmb9MuDkCikHvZ1Y62AWR6sLuEGGqWpncas8XNuuNMUdH5/toxic%20Azadirachtin.jpg)</center>

Azadirachtin (C35H44O16) is the active compound in the oil from the neem plant.

<center>![](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmXTBh9uq8kZZ9WbZiMNNPqUqbkPGG6rn9CPZDpo5Nc8oe/image.png)
<i>(from Wikipedia)</i></center>

Farmers have been wielding neem oil against fungal and insect pests for centuries. When done properly, very little azadirachtin ends up in the food, because most plants can't take it up through their roots.

Cannabis is one of the best <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4235884/">phytoremediators</a> known - when grown in contaminated soil, it "cleans" the soil by uptaking heavy metals and other toxins. So it DOES uptake azadirachtin, especially during vegetative stage, then deposits it with resins into the flowers, which may be dried for smoking or made into concentrates. 

<center>![bangbang pistols.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmQjX1nQELXh781o6QsPPEwB9REQ6e19qfVeSsnGyrfmjE/bangbang%20pistols.jpg)
<i>(photo by <a href="https://steemit.com/cannabis/@drutter/organic-pink-kush-cannabis-flower">DRutter</a>)</i></center>

Many (even organic) growers don't know this, and continue to use neem oil with cannabis. Yes, it's organic, but organic doesn't mean safe. Azadirachtin is definitely poisonous. As much as HALF of all cannabis, including in dispensaries, is contaminated to some degree with azadirachtin!

<h2>What Azadirachtin does to Humans</h2>

The early symptoms of azadirachtin <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841499/">toxicity</a> are intense nausea, cyclic vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, muscle tension, fatigue, and dehydration. Symptoms can be reduced with Benadryl (diphenhydramine) or a hot shower/bath. Those who are particularly sensitive to azadirachtin, those who are otherwise weakened or immunocompromised, and those who get the highest doses get the sickest. If levels get high enough, stupor, seizures, and organ damage result. 

When the patient abstains from cannabis, or switches to a clean source (grown without azadirachtin), symptoms gradually clear up.

<h2>Along Came "CHS"</h2>

Since 2004, <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/10/14/1218930.htm">various sources</a> have been claiming that heavy cannabis use sometimes causes "cannabis hyperemesis syndrome". This never-before seen illness supposedly has all the same symptoms as azadirachtin toxicity, and it clears up when treated in the same ways.

As far as I can tell, "CHS" doesn't exist. It's actually toxicity to the active compound in neem oil (used sporadically on cannabis in the legal and underground industries). This nonsensical syndrome is being made into a Boogeyman by politicians to justify the continued prohibition of cannabis!

We can dispel the CHS myth - and prevent people from getting sick - by spreading the word: NEVER use neem oil (Azadirachtin) on cannabis!

<center>![toxic Azadirachtin.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmb9MuDkCikHvZ1Y62AWR6sLuEGGqWpncas8XNuuNMUdH5/toxic%20Azadirachtin.jpg)</center>

<h6>[NOTE: Read your labels! Azadirachtin is now being produced synthetically and added to various products like Azatrol, Azamax, Aza-Sol, Align, Azatin, Turplex, d-Mize, Plantonix Bliss, and more. Better yet, grow with nothing but light, air, and water - like Nature does!]</h6>

<i>This isn't meant as medical advice, but I hope it spurs you to research the issue yourself. Other useful writeups on this topic can be found <a href="https://hempedification.wordpress.com/2018/01/22/azadirachtin-hyperemesis-and-herxing/">here</a>, <a href="https://steemit.com/nausea/@thecleangame/is-your-cannabis-poisoning-you-are-you-experiencing-nausea-vomiting-lingering-digestive-issues-doctors-telling-you-it-s-chs">here</a>, and <a href="https://steemit.com/cannabis/@thecleangame/cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome-chs-is-azadirachtin-poisoning-tralawar-s-post-reminded-me-to-post-this-ty-tralawar">here</a>. If you have information you think I should add to this post, please let me know!</i>

DRutter

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@jonyoudyer · Aug 12 '18

neem oil is fine to use. But I’ll run this post to our resident cannabis guru and see what he has to say about this

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@greatesteem · Aug 12 '18

Hmmmm yeah.. better consult the guru on that.

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@medikatie · Aug 12 '18

$0.05

LOL!

👍 drutter, girlsofgreen, greatesteem, medikatie, hempy, vantocan, sativazeee

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@greatesteem · Aug 13 '18

Hey... did you guys get a chance to figure this one out yet? All evidence welcome.

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@jonyoudyer · Aug 13 '18

I’m waiting to here back from him. But I imagine it’s ok to use, but not late in flowering stage. Spraying anything close to harvest is not a good idea.

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11 replies

@vandigital · Aug 12 '18

$0.03

now that was eye opening

👍 drutter, greatesteem, hempy, sativazeee

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@buddymac28 · Aug 12 '18

$0.02

Excellent post.

👍 drutter, greatesteem

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@jeffhand · Aug 13 '18

$0.02

Good to know, thanks!

👍 drutter

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@threebagsfull · Aug 14 '18

$0.04

Really good to know! I have used neem for many things but I wasn't aware that it could be toxic to you. I know it is a popular "organic" alternative to pesticides and other chemicals to deal with pests and it makes me think that most flower people use is contaminated. It is really important people learn about this so we can keep the medicine pure. Thank you for the info!

👍 drutter, greatesteem

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@drutter · Aug 14 '18

Thanks for not shooting the messenger! I realize this isn't exactly great news, but maybe some good will come of it. Perhaps this will get more people to try more natural alternatives to sprays, even sprays made with "organic" compounds. Even if this just gets people to REDUCE how much azadirachtin is getting into cannabis for internal use, that's success to me.

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@threebagsfull · Aug 14 '18

I think that humans are very out of touch with nature in general so we tend to want what we want by any means instead of working intelligently with nature. Even if cannabis is only a recreational drug in someones mind they should still want it to be clean and healthy. But the truth is that it is medicine and it is important to be careful about what we are putting in our bodies. I have always really preferred wholesome, straight from the earth bud and not all these crazy outcomes of human tricks and schemes. Our species has had a relationship with this plant for at minimum thousands of years and im guessing it is only recently that we have felt the need to add all these chemicals. I think the more people learn about this the more there will be a push for better practices and even if it only changes 5% of growers minds well hey at least its 5% more good bud out there.

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1 reply

@hempy · Aug 14 '18

$0.05

Upvoted, shared, and resteemed to my hemptastic followers!!

👍 drutter, greatesteem, sativazeee, ganjarijuana, desperad0s

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@sativazeee · Aug 14 '18

sharing this research thank you ...

👍 greatesteem

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@ganjafarmer · Aug 21 '18

Nice you comment on your own post and upvote yourself...  Lol.

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@blazinbob419 · Aug 14 '18

$0.03

Man I just harvested two plants last week and I had been using neem oil on them to help control fruit flies. Very glad to have read this now. I guess I will be finding something else to use from now on. Awesome article man.

👍 drutter

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@ganjafarmer · Aug 15 '18

Use nicotine tea.  Easy and simple.

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@blazinbob419 · Aug 20 '18

$0.03

Nicotine tea huh, that's a new one to me. I'll have to do some homework now.

👍 ganjafarmer

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2 replies

@howweroll · Aug 14 '18

$0.02

Wow, my friend just got "CHS", and believes it came from his medical weed.  So this matches so well.  Thanks for the info.

👍 drutter, greatesteem

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@cannabis-news · Aug 14 '18

$0.05

Thank you.  Very well written/  Up-voted and resteemed!  ![MJL20.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmPMEozdPJC2JgocriJFCsdvyzQuRy98GhD9uJTbi44JTc/MJL20.jpg)

👍 ganjafarmer, drutter, hempy

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@ganjafarmer · Aug 15 '18

If he says it's fact?  It has to be...  And I've known and told people about this for years.

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@winnerchris · Aug 20 '18

ok, how do you re-steem this?

👍 sativazeee, mochedda

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@weedn00b · Aug 14 '18

$0.04

this article is awesome. i’ve always been skeptical of neem products, and this really confirms my suspicion. the tie to CHS is mind blowing, jeez just thank you for this information!!!

👍 drutter, greatesteem

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@desperad0s · Mar 26 '19 (edited)

But according to this article, there is no CHS. CHS is the Azadirachtin poisining caused by the neem oil.
Nevertheless, thanks for sharing this :)

👍 desperad0s
👎 nageshwar0369

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@ganjafarmer · Aug 15 '18

Wow...  

I may not be friends with you... 

Bit you were getting shared on fakebook. 

![Screenshot_20180814-181811.png](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmY311nJHT9414wd72oFwovkyrr61w2FjGpjVGbmzfZ6EG/Screenshot_20180814-181811.png)

Even if we ain't friends....  I can still throw you props. 

Oh and gonna vote.  Hope that really makes you baked.

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@zerzer · Aug 27 '20 (edited)

This post helps a lot of growers. Here is also a website that provides credible information. https://www.growingmarijuanatips.com/dealing-with-spider-mites-and-other-outdoor-marijuana-diseases-and-pests/

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@gjones15 · Aug 18 '18

$0.02

wow.  This is fascinating... I have experienced this "Emesis" before.. I actually tended to attribute it to strains with high CBD as that seemed to be when I got the "sickest" after using strains with high levels of it.  But I will def check this out now and do some experimnets!  Thanks!!!  (got here too late to upvote, unfortunately, but will re-steem!

👍 drutter, greatesteem

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@drutter · Aug 18 '18

Thanks for sharing the info, and I'd certainly love to hear your "experiment" results once you have them. Good luck, and all the best to your health!

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@gjones15 · Sep 16 '18

$0.02

Just wanted to check back in--I have been using solely homegrown cannabis for the past month or so--I feel worlds better!  It is crazy... I don't know what it is, but, something in dispensary cannabis was messing with me, and now that I have only been smoking homegrown (aside from a few headaches from not having the patience to cure properly) I have not gotten the "chills" etc. that I used to feel when smoking the commercial grade.  Thank you, @drutter for helping me see part of the cause!

👍 drutter

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3 replies

@thecleangame · Sep 15 '18

$0.02

# Thank You!!
I've been posting about the nastiness of Neem+Cannabis for years. It's nice to see others have taken up the standard as well. :D

# H.Pylori Infections Make CHS Worse!!
(Btw, it's Cannabi**noid** Hyperemesis Syndrome)
If you're having serious issues with even small amounts of tainted cannabis, I strongly suggest you look at getting tested for H.Pylori.

H.Pylori is a digestive issue which can be cleared up in a month. Without an H.Pylori infection the CHS symptoms are much milder.

# There IS Life After CHS!!
You will survive, and you will be able to use clean cannabis. :)

Go BE Awesome!!

👍 drutter, thecleangame

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@drutter · Sep 15 '18

$0.02

Hey thanks for your great comment! H.Pylori is something I've run across a few times in my research. It's something we can quickly have tested at a lab, and it can be treated fairly easily and non-invasively. It has other health effects as well, and should be treated in most patients testing positive.
Following you : )

👍 drutter, girlsofgreen, thecleangame, sativazeee

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@thecleangame · Sep 15 '18

After 10 years of on-and-off CHS (mostly from "organic" grown cannabis, ironically enough), I experienced massive relief within the first week of being treated for H.Pylori.

I doubt I ever would have attributed all of the things aza does to me, if I hadn't had the H.Pylori infection. Now the effects are so mild, I can see how people believe it does not affect them at all. It does though. Everyone I've seen use it has had mild issues they attribute to other things.

Thanks for pursuing this! :D

👍 drutter

properties (23)vote details (1)

1 reply

@borofreak · Nov 19 '18

Just thought I would let you know, i have been seeing a handful of people sharing this all over Facebook recently, your words are reaching more people than just here on Steemit. This is a great article and I hope this spreads to the rest of the cannabis community so we can get on top of this issue.

👍 drutter

properties (23)vote details (1)

@drutter · Nov 19 '18

That's very cool! Thanks for letting me know. Most of the time, FB doesn't let me know when my things there get shared. It's such a glitchy and censored site, hard to believe people use it to stay 'informed' and as their primary method of staying in touch with peers.
The reactions to this article have been mixed. Some people's emotions even seem to get involved when it comes to this topic. All I want is to get closer to knowing the full truth on how neem affects humans when burned in cannabis.

properties (22)

@dracusone · Nov 27 '18

Thanks for the good information. We have updated our blog post to recommend growers to stay away from Neem Oil when trying to cure powdery mildew https://moldresistantstrains.com/6-ways-cure-powdery-mildew-cannabis-organically/

👍 drutter, thecleangame

properties (23)vote details (2)

@drutter · Nov 27 '18

Thanks for your comment. I notice this article has been making the rounds on social media, which is great. I don't think it contains all the answers, but it's most of the known info on the subject. A lot of people are aware of the potential problem, and they know there are safer ways of dealing with unwanted fungi. On my blog I'm showing how it's possible to grow top shelf cannabis with literally nothing but a scoop of dirt, light, and water (and the right love).

👍 dracusone

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@thecleangame · Jan 19 '19

# Sorry CHS DOES Exist!!
I believe I was the first to post about [azadirachtin on steemit](https://steemit.com/cannabis/@thecleangame/cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome-chs-is-azadirachtin-poisoning-tralawar-s-post-reminded-me-to-post-this-ty-tralawar) here...

Since this time I have indeed encountered people who have true CHS. There's a definite medical explanation for their issues and it's triggered by THC. Clean or dirty cannabis does not matter, it's the amount of THC. It can be isolate, extract, flower or edible, it doesn't matter.

I have run across one individual who uses high CBD, low THC cannabis daily. A very small amount. If they use more it causes them CHS symptoms. It's literally the THC.

# 99% of the Sufferers so far Have Been Aza/Neem Related
So definitely keep pushing this information. :D I just wanted everyone to be aware CHS does truly exist.

# Go BE Awesome! :D

👍 drutter

properties (23)vote details (1)

@drutter · Jan 19 '19

Hey again, thanks for commenting. 
"I have run across one individual.."
I'd like to point out that one anecdote doesn't provide much support for any particular possibility. Many anecdotes together can sometimes provide compelling evidence for a case, but one is literally no different than none. No trend can be seen from one anecdote.
".. who uses high CBD, low THC cannabis daily. A very small amount. If they use more it causes them CHS symptoms."
Instead of using the term "CHS symptoms", since CHS doesn't exist (except perhaps in this individual you ran across), could you describe their reaction to cannabis doses above a very small amount? They vomit, I assume? What else?
"It's literally the THC."
There's no way for you to know that, and saying so is conjecture at best. Let's stick to the facts, and use logic to analyze them, so we come to the best conclusions possible.

properties (22)

@thecleangame · Jan 21 '19 (edited)

I've since met several people since then who have issues with only THC. The pathway for CHS from THC is well documented in science, it truly does exist.

CHS is **MOSTLY** caused by azadirachtin issues, but there are definitely THC-only suffers.

The "ONE" individual I was talking about is the only person I talked to about using low THC strength cannabis. I've met many others who have issues with only THC. Yes, they've tested clean cannabis without aza in it.


Thanks :D

properties (22)

6 replies

@ultratrain · Dec 4 '19

Fascinating to read this post. My last nursing job was up in an ER in Colorado Springs and we often got people  with this disorder although it was often termed cyclic vomiting in that they smoked and then vomited, the more they did the more they vomited. Was always attributed to the cannabis. It would be interesting to have checked their cannabis to see if it was treated with neem.

👍 drutter

properties (23)vote details (1)

@drutter · Dec 5 '19

Yes, would be very interesting!
More and more, it appears that various chemicals (added as fertilizer, pesticide, fungicide, etc) are the culprit in this and other illnesses associated with cannabis. For example, the "vape crisis" is nothing more than myclobutanil toxicity! This all underlies points I've been making for years:

- know (or be) your grower
- 200% organic (nothing but air light water and soil)

👍 girlsofgreen, medikatie

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