Viewing a response to: @dwinblood/challenge-my-current-hypothesis-banning-things-does-not-achieve-the-stated-goal
I think it greatly depends on what your "goal" is. If the goal is to get completely rid of something by banning it, then no - this can not be reached. If your goal is to limit or diminish something that is considered a danger for society, then prohibition might work - at least to some extent. 2 examples: - I am from Austria. We Austrians and Germans prohibited the political use of Nazi symbols as well as the denial of the holocaust after WW2. Of course that is an interference with the freedom of speech. But it has made life for neo-nazis difficult and helped to keep a very dangerous ideology marginalized for the last 70 years. - gun control: in most european countries, gun rights are very limited, and a lot of stuff that is legal in the US is prohibited. Does that mean there are no guns or accidents with guns in the EU? Ofc not. But a lot less, and also a lot less mass shootings, gun-connected criminality etc. So it works in aiding to protect society.
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Switzerland is a great example in Europe as well where gun access similar to what the U.S. was founded upon seems to have served them well. There can be many factors beyond access to the TOOL. It can also be due to cultural differences. Correlation does not always equal Causation. The sad thing about ANTI-NAZI here in the U.S. lately is that most of the people that are anti-nazi know of the holocaust, the uniforms, and the aryan race related racism, but they don't know what NAZI actually stood for, how it came to power, etc. In the U.S. those claiming to be anti-nazi actually often act more like a Nazi than other factions, and it is purely due to ignorance, appeals to emotion, and simply following the words of some authority figure without researching and learning themselves. Mass shootings can be far worse in casualties if those being shot at have been deprived of ability to defend themselves. So given CULTURE is likely a factor. In the U.S. 1) The place with the strictest gun control has the highest gun related deaths EACH month. It exceeds what happened in Las Vegas every month. That is Chicago if you wish to look into it at all. 2) The places with the least amount of gun control tend to have the least amount of gun deaths. I'm not sure if that includes suicides or not. Yet a suicide the person decided to kill themselves, the gun is often just the easiest, quickest, and effective. If they plan on committing suicide I do not see lack of a gun changing that, only changing the method they use. 3) We have the NRA which is vilified as they are pro-gun, and they actually wrote most of the background laws which are NOT AS EASY as the media likes to spin it. Only people that have never tried to purchase a gun spin the absurd stories and claims the media does. It is also interesting that no NRA member has EVER been involved in a mass shooting. Though one did bring the Texas Shooting to an end... not the police. As I understand it Switzerland every citizen is encouraged to have a weapon and they seemingly are quite peaceful. They've also managed to stay out of wars. Sounds more like a cultural thing to me than banning of a tool or access to a tool.
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I am not too familiar with the exact regulations in place in the US, but since you mention Switzerland, whose border is 50 km (miles?^^) from my hometown: - you are right that within europe, they are quite liberal concerning gun rights - BUT: they are far more regulated than the US. You have to take a test and gain a license that is only valid for 5 years before you are allowed to publicly carry a gun there. And this right does not include half-automatic weapons, which are prohibited to non-army/police members. - even so, the number of gun deaths per capita is much higher in switzerland than in other european countries (source: http://derstandard.at/1379291321776/Studie-Viele-Feuerwaffen-viele-Totehttp://derstandard.at/1379291321776/Studie-Viele-Feuerwaffen-viele-Tote - sorry, it's in german) So taken together that rather nails my point^^ Of course cultural differences also play a role, but I think there's sound evidence that tighter control leads to less idiots/criminals with guns, which leads to less gun deaths. Concerning the Nazis I won't get into the who-is-nazi-and-who-not thing, it's really a completely seperate topic. Prohibiting Nazi symbols, Nazi revisionism and the occasional political party that came too close to that ideology has served us Austrian/Germans well in building our democracy after that very ideology destroyed our countries and our continent 70 years ago. That was my whole point here. What I really wanted to say/show: Rules and regulations are not necessarily there to completely abolish a thing, but rather to diminish it. Thus, the argument "it is not possible to completely ban something" is technically true, but a bit empty. Imho, one should rather ask: "Is the loss of freedom that this particular regulation brings worth the benefits?"
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>Concerning the Nazis I won't get into the who-is-nazi-and-who-not thing, it's really a completely seperate topic. Prohibiting Nazi symbols, Nazi revisionism and the occasional political party that came too close to that ideology has served us Austrian/Germans well in building our democracy after that very ideology destroyed our countries and our continent 70 years ago. That was my whole point here. I figured you'd know what I meant about people talking about Nazis this day that have no clue. I doubt this would be an issue in Germany. It is a big issue in the U.S. In the U.S. a Nazi is essentially anyone that disagrees with a left leaning liberal with no knowledge of history. :) >"Is the loss of freedom that this particular regulation brings worth the benefits?" This is true. Yet, we should also not immediately assume there are benefits. I can tell you that Gun Control does not work in the U.S. I do think this is more cultural than anything else. I do not believe banning tools is the answer, or substances, or literature. People in general do not like being told they have no choice, and having choice removed from them. So really you need to actually educate and then provide some good REASONS that making a choice might be a good idea. Then it is voluntary. Allowing anyone to make rules to BAN something for other people is a slippery slope. It sets precedence that other humans can remove voluntary choices from other people. As some current examples of where this slope can lead. Currently in Canada it is a crime to use the wrong gender pronoun. This madness is spreading around the planet like wild fire. People are advocating the use of government force against other people rather than having to debate, reason, and convince people. Why put forth effort when you can convince the government to FORCE something? Governments loathe to relinquish power once it is given to them. Yes, that covers many topics but I believe they are all interrelated.
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