RE: Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50? by yabapmatt

View this thread on steempeak.com

Viewing a response to: @practicalthought/re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t215056178z

· @yabapmatt ·
$0.30
100% this.

For the record, I also vote no to a curation/author split change. While that might be a big deal to a very small number of people who are active on the platform and really understand how it all works, I'm pretty sure it's not the reason why most people don't know about Steem and don't invest in it or use it. I think we should focus our very limited blockchain development resources on things that solve the latter problems.
👍  , , , , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,613,458
authoryabapmatt
permlinkre-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t220440786z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:04:39
last_update2019-04-23 22:04:39
depth2
children35
net_rshares716,444,836,985
last_payout2019-04-30 22:04:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.269 SBD
curator_payout_value0.033 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length437
author_reputation96,235,062,639,808
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (9)
@theycallmedan ·
$0.06
I agree with everything with all that, but I still vote yes myself. I see it as a distribution issue that can hurt Steem down the line if the token circulates among vote sellers and self upvoters since  doing that is 3x more profitable in Steem ROI. But you are right, it doesn't matter much right now and isn't the reason a lot of people are not here, we need to build cool shit for that to happen.
👍  , , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,613,606
authortheycallmedan
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t220959621z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:10:03
last_update2019-04-23 22:10:03
depth3
children22
net_rshares121,933,972,903
last_payout2019-04-30 22:10:03
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.045 SBD
curator_payout_value0.010 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length399
author_reputation402,202,202,441,317
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars0
author_curate_reward""
vote details (4)
@yabapmatt ·
$0.24
> if the token circulates among vote sellers and self upvoters since doing that is 3x more profitable in Steem ROI

No amount of tweaking the reward system algorithm will change that. If we change the curation reward percentage then the vote selling services / self upvoters will simply adjust how they work to take advantage of the new model.

In my opinion the best way to solve these issues is to fix the issues with downvoting. The cool part about Steem is the ability to crowdsource the rewards for content. Since downvoting is so heavily disincentivized currently, it's almost non-existent, which means it's not possible to have a true wisdom of the crowd effect.

Downvoting needs to exactly mirror upvoting for this to have a chance at working, meaning there needs to be a separate and equal voting mana pool for downvoting AND there must be equal but opposite curation rewards for downvoting as well.
👍  , , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,613,948
authoryabapmatt
permlinkre-theycallmedan-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t221945858z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:19:45
last_update2019-04-23 22:19:45
depth4
children21
net_rshares527,292,152,534
last_payout2019-04-30 22:19:45
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.198 SBD
curator_payout_value0.046 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length909
author_reputation96,235,062,639,808
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (7)
@theycallmedan ·
>No amount of tweaking the reward system algorithm will change that. If we change the curation reward percentage then the vote selling services / self upvoters will simply adjust how they work to take advantage of the new model.

This is true, but it still doesn't change the fact 50/50 makes curation much more attractive then 25/75, thus people would be more willing to delegate to curation bots that put in the effort to find content that will get a lot of upvotes and not delegate to bid bots. People who sell votes will take a hit because people only pay for the meat of the vote as curation is terrible with vote bots (ppl use bots on day old content etc.)
- Not saying this is going to make it perfect, but I think it's better than the current setup. 

I agree with downvotes; I like your idea. Just fixing how downvotes work will at least help keep vote buyers/bid bots in check, so they don't just run rampant upvoting any content.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id73,614,168
authortheycallmedan
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-theycallmedan-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t222854978z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:29:00
last_update2019-04-23 22:29:00
depth5
children8
net_rshares8,445,625,944
last_payout2019-04-30 22:29:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length940
author_reputation402,202,202,441,317
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars0
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@freddio ·
Ok then Downvote Services pop up and the Steem Blockchain will sucks. So vote seller earn twice. One time with upvote and another time with downvote.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id73,641,651
authorfreddio
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-theycallmedan-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t102828081z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steempeak\/1.9.8"}
created2019-04-24 10:28:15
last_update2019-04-24 10:28:15
depth5
children1
net_rshares9,595,124,171
last_payout2019-05-01 10:28:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length149
author_reputation11,277,743,744,431
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@lordbutterfly · (edited)
>then the vote selling services / self upvoters will simply adjust how they work to take advantage of the new model.

Im glad to see someone a bit more reputable then myself is putting this forward. 
The problem here is that those that are for 50/50 have a overly optimistic view of the outcome. No one for one second is even willing to consider the fact that vote selling services will simply adjust.

Not only am i against this proposal, i fear it. Imo, <b>Its probably the worst idea with the biggest support right now.</b>
STEEM community size and retention are in direct correlation to the STEEM price meaning that if you cut author earnings you can expect a lot of content creators to leave and user numbers drop off. Assuming that vote sellers that are completely uninterested in curating will suddenly start curating after the vote selling services adjust is completely unrealistic. 
The only time a cut in author earnings should be encouraged is if it leads to increase in price of STEEM. <b>For that very reason im advocating for the cut to happen after the @blocktrades DAO is live and the inflation to be used to fund projects.</b>
1. The loss in author rewards goes into improving the STEEM ecosystem which should by all account increase STEEM price.
2. Vote selling will be reduced due to lower demand and bots will have a much harder time adjusting since the curation would remain at 25%

Instead of giving a few curators more money and fixing nothing, i think this is the proper path to take that would have a much greater positive effect.   
👍  , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,642,738
authorlordbutterfly
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-theycallmedan-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t105508760z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steempeak\/1.9.8"}
created2019-04-24 10:55:09
last_update2019-04-24 11:24:18
depth5
children5
net_rshares38,348,031,788
last_payout2019-05-01 10:55:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length1,558
author_reputation104,712,854,805,089
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@glenalbrethsen ·
Hey, @yabapmatt.

I'm agreeing that tweaking the author/curator ratio won't really have the desired effect, for all the reasons you describe and probably more, so thanks for that.

I understand what you're saying about the downvoting, and in a world where people actually used downvotes properly, I might be with you there. I wonder how this rewards for downvoting doesn't end up being abused too, worse than downvoting is now. As it stands, two larger accounts decide they don't like each other and people who have nothing to do with it, but because one or the other curates a post or comment, all of a sudden, they're being hit, too, along with obnoxious comments where it's painfully obvious they simply don't care who gets it.

So, how would you go about securing the downvoting incentive system so that people aren't just downvoting to milk it, and/or taking folks who have nothing to do with the skirmish down with them? And where would this separate pool draw from?
👍  
properties (23)
post_id73,671,926
authorglenalbrethsen
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-theycallmedan-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t224720015z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"users":["yabapmatt"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-24 22:47:21
last_update2019-04-24 22:47:21
depth5
children3
net_rshares9,555,012,898
last_payout2019-05-01 22:47:21
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length972
author_reputation73,752,675,176,126
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
$0.63
Umm, I could log in  using keychain.
👍  , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,614,295
authortarazkp
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t223335144z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:33:33
last_update2019-04-23 22:33:33
depth3
children6
net_rshares1,258,920,126,360
last_payout2019-04-30 22:33:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.475 SBD
curator_payout_value0.158 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length36
author_reputation1,394,583,249,195,743
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars0
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@llfarms ·
$0.11
You beat me to it 😉❤️
👍  ,
properties (23)
post_id73,614,554
authorllfarms
permlinkre-tarazkp-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t223957305z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:40:00
last_update2019-04-23 22:40:00
depth4
children1
net_rshares234,373,497,112
last_payout2019-04-30 22:40:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.088 SBD
curator_payout_value0.017 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length21
author_reputation60,875,766,765,087
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
score!! :P
properties (22)
post_id73,614,631
authortarazkp
permlinkre-llfarms-re-tarazkp-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t224144893z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-23 22:41:45
last_update2019-04-23 22:41:45
depth5
children0
net_rshares0
last_payout2019-04-30 22:41:45
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length10
author_reputation1,394,583,249,195,743
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars0
@yabapmatt ·
$0.11
Ah that's fantastic! I was just clicking login and getting sent to SteemConnect. I didn't see the little message about being able to vote with Keychain! They should definitely add that option when you click login, but still glad to see the progress. Thank you for letting me know!
👍  ,
properties (23)
post_id73,621,410
authoryabapmatt
permlinkre-tarazkp-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t020129339z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-24 02:01:27
last_update2019-04-24 02:01:27
depth4
children1
net_rshares219,263,409,355
last_payout2019-05-01 02:01:27
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.082 SBD
curator_payout_value0.026 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length280
author_reputation96,235,062,639,808
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@emrebeyler · (edited)
Yeah, Keychain support landed with a `shortest time/effort` to catch up with the steem alliance poll. So, Keychain is not a replacement for the SC yet, in the dPoll authentication system. Its usable only for voting now.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id73,673,612
authoremrebeyler
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-tarazkp-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t235523840z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-24 23:55:24
last_update2019-04-25 00:11:27
depth5
children0
net_rshares4,248,937,182
last_payout2019-05-01 23:55:24
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length219
author_reputation319,480,565,467,431
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@valued-customer ·
$0.02
Doesn't work on my browser.  I tried.
👍  
properties (23)
post_id73,789,977
authorvalued-customer
permlinkre-tarazkp-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190427t080330383z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steempeak\/1.9.8"}
created2019-04-27 08:03:42
last_update2019-04-27 08:03:42
depth4
children1
net_rshares45,574,286,707
last_payout2019-05-04 08:03:42
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.016 SBD
curator_payout_value0.005 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length37
author_reputation48,231,784,822,393
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
damn. fixed it for me. @eonwarped? Any other ideas?
properties (22)
post_id73,792,467
authortarazkp
permlinkre-valued-customer-re-tarazkp-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190427t093501484z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"users":["eonwarped"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-27 09:34:54
last_update2019-04-27 09:34:54
depth5
children0
net_rshares0
last_payout2019-05-04 09:34:54
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length51
author_reputation1,394,583,249,195,743
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@dreamryder007 ·
I agree with this.
properties (22)
post_id73,616,804
authordreamryder007
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190423t235628418z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steempeak\/1.9.8"}
created2019-04-23 23:56:30
last_update2019-04-23 23:56:30
depth3
children0
net_rshares0
last_payout2019-04-30 23:56:30
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length18
author_reputation51,813,680,698,502
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
@geekgirl ·
$0.22
I disagree. Everybody knows economics is broken, and partly a reason that drives people away. I think it is the most important issue that deserves dev resources and attention. 

Giving 50/50 at least gives a fair chance to encourage use of organic voting and attarct more power ups. 
This may divert some votes to authors for free rather than selling.

If you have noticed as soon as you power up bidbots send you memos with advertising their services and trying to get you use your sp for selling votes.

If you compare 25% return to almost 100%, which would you choose? 50/50 at least improves odds in favor of organic voting.
👍  , , , , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,622,084
authorgeekgirl
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t022015458z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-24 02:20:15
last_update2019-04-24 02:20:15
depth3
children2
net_rshares444,502,084,177
last_payout2019-05-01 02:20:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.168 SBD
curator_payout_value0.053 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length628
author_reputation169,390,437,178,762
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (6)
@demotruk ·
$0.07
I don't expect 50/50 to work but I'm in favor of trying things out. However we don't really 'try something out' when we hard fork, we end up committing to that change because changing back would be another hard fork and a whole bunch of work just to get us back where we were.

We need some kind of trial period with a rollback at the end. That way we only continue with the new economics if we specifically elect to.
👍  ,
properties (23)
post_id73,788,238
authordemotruk
permlinkre-geekgirl-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190427t071029220z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-27 07:10:30
last_update2019-04-27 07:10:30
depth4
children1
net_rshares136,997,141,356
last_payout2019-05-04 07:10:30
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.052 SBD
curator_payout_value0.017 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length417
author_reputation96,481,588,331,838
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@geekgirl ·
It is just so difficult to get everybody agree on something, especially the high stakeholders.
👍  , , ,
properties (23)
post_id73,801,933
authorgeekgirl
permlinkre-demotruk-re-geekgirl-re-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190427t144518783z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steemit\/0.1"}
created2019-04-27 14:45:18
last_update2019-04-27 14:45:18
depth5
children0
net_rshares5,692,585,643
last_payout2019-05-04 14:45:18
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 SBD
curator_payout_value0.000 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length94
author_reputation169,390,437,178,762
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (4)
@mattclarke ·
$0.41
Agreed. I've wanted a return to 50/50 curation (and n2) ever since they changed; but the time, trauma and effort to switch back now just don't justify it. 
We get to 500K active daily users and curation is going to get worthwhile again anyway. 
👍  
properties (23)
post_id73,656,719
authormattclarke
permlinkre-yabapmatt-re-practicalthought-re-theycallmedan-should-we-raise-curation-rewards-from-2575-to-5050-20190424t153943185z
categorydpoll
json_metadata{"tags":["dpoll"],"app":"steempeak\/1.9.8"}
created2019-04-24 15:39:45
last_update2019-04-24 15:39:45
depth3
children0
net_rshares815,271,414,787
last_payout2019-05-01 15:39:45
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.310 SBD
curator_payout_value0.103 SBD
pending_payout_value0.000 SBD
promoted0.000 SBD
body_length244
author_reputation65,732,140,940,596
root_title"Should We Raise Curation Rewards From 25/75 To 50/50?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 SBD
percent_steem_dollars10,000
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)