RE: What Is Financial Value? by lukestokes

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Viewing a response to: @saphircrane/7lp9v3go2

· @lukestokes ·
Please don't assume we don't do both. Helping others as part of a community is certainly important. Providing value without any token for who provided what usually ends up not working. Even in gift economies people keep mental ledgers of value exchange. Using a token like money makes everything transparent and that's important. Countries with the most economic freedom often have very high well-being.

Money is not evil.

Money can be a token for keeping track of who has helped the most people.
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@saphircrane ·
"Providing value without any token for who provided what usually ends up not working."
It needs people with high moral standards to make it work. Also tokens do not work when the culture of a society is corrupted. Money than will be made by creating negative value -- for example selling drugs, creating weapons of mass destruction, or speculating on commodities like wheat -- that harms society as a whole. First must be moral values and these only originate from understanding the concept of solidarity -- a tokenization alienates further from this concept, that is why I think it is not good to teach kids in this way. Especially when this money represents a corrupted society. Sorry for being so harsh, but this is my opinion.
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@lukestokes ·
I understand, but I don't agree with your opinions based on my understanding of history, economics (a proxy for human psychology), and human well-being.

I don't see "selling drugs" as evil. All chemicals we put in our body (including food) could be called "drugs". It's a false evil pushed by nation state governments for control. Some drugs which are "legal" in the medical community and terribly dangerous (such as opioids) while others are safe by considered schedule 1 narcotics (which is just silly).

Governments create weapons of mass destruction, not free markets.

As for speculating on commodities, that's an interesting example. I see the value of creating open pricing markets to stabilize price and risk. What I also see is manipulated currency through fiat and fractional reserve lending along with a corrupt investor system in wall street that takes what could be beneficial for farmers and customers and creates massively distorted markets which are harmful. Governments try to "regulate" this by with regulatory capture and revolving door politics, this becomes just another layer of control backed by a monopoly on violent force.

From my perspective, you're looking at the systems caused by governments and the <a href="https://steemit.com/anarchy/@lukestokes/the-myth-of-authority">myth of authority</a> and blaming them on core concepts like money. If money was allowed to operate as originally intended (a token of value), it would not case all the harm you're describing.
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@saphircrane ·
"Governments create weapons of mass destruction, not free markets."
 See, it is not about government vs. free market. The concept of a free market is utopian as socialism is, it never existed. And if it would exist, you would not want it because it would mean anarchy, and you and your family would not go through anarchy unharmed (under the condition that people are selfish). There is a reason why governments exist. Therefore, I cannot understand this government vs. free market argument. It is for me more a reflection of the deep conditioning in american culture, that the market is somehting religious that does not fail and societal structures -- as governments -- are seen as something unnatural.
Weapons of mass destruction are build by private companies. If there would not be a US-government that would buy these weapons there would be other governments. There would be always a government, even if it calls itself a corporation. Because the directors boards of corporations are nothing else as small governments -- and not even democratic ones.
 Further, I do not see selling drugs as evil -- because for me there is no good or evil. I see it as a waste of human potential. When you think in economic terms, selling drugs reduces the overall welfare, because people get ruined and all the capital invested in them evaporates. 
"From my perspective, you're looking at the systems caused by governments"
No. The corrupted system we are living in is caused by normal market mechanisms -- emergence of oligopolies and monopolies. These can only be smashed by governments (or better said, by the society, aggregating their power to destroy parasitic structures that decrease the overall welfare). 
I was not blaming anything on money. I only said that money acts as a mirror. If kids do not understand, what the mirror reflects, it is not good for the society. This mirror these days reflect no societal value anymore, that was the point. Overall the concept of solidarity is more important, because teaching solidarity leads to a society that has higher moral standards and will not corrupt in the way a society will, that is too much focused on tokens and loses the concept behind them.
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