Viewing a response to: @transisto/come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting
Maybe as a community we should start exposing these voting rings so people can know who is contributing to this and who is working to prevent it? Reputation should matter, and if some people who otherwise have a high reputation are enabling what others call abuse, that's worth discussing. I have people who vote for me, but I have no voting agreement with anyone. If I was to some day show up as being part of "abuse" I don't think that would be my fault as much as the people who decided to vote for me even if the community disagreed with the rewards payout. To me, those are the people we should confront and that includes those who run voting bot services which enable this to happen and profit from it. I appreciate you discussing this and the downvotes you do to protect the perception of the value of the rewards pool. I know, as an investor, that's a double burden you have to take because you're not only not making money on your voting strength you could be making, but you're also exposing yourself for whale flag wars. It's also challenging to directly defined voting circles and abuse. I have friends of mine who I always support and some of them support me also. Is that abuse or natural? Who's to say and what role does the quality of the content produced play? Hopefully we can all figure this out as we vote up or down based on perspectives.
post_id | 36,300,495 |
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author | lukestokes |
permlink | re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180302t222916393z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-02 22:29:18 |
last_update | 2018-03-02 22:29:18 |
depth | 1 |
children | 17 |
net_rshares | 387,915,731,490 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
netuoso | 0 | 249,024,015,298 | 13% | ||
therealwolf | 0 | 117,730,654,743 | 15% | ||
lukebrn | 0 | 10,093,917,198 | 10% | ||
nikokafka | 0 | 10,512,501,779 | 100% | ||
advanticle | 0 | 554,642,472 | 100% |
We're two years in, the community has tried 'exposing' and all manner of things. It is clear by now that the mechanism is badly broken.
post_id | 36,303,711 |
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author | smooth |
permlink | re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180302t225357500z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-02 22:54:00 |
last_update | 2018-03-02 22:54:00 |
depth | 2 |
children | 10 |
net_rshares | 130,610,582,792 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
whatsup | 0 | 4,587,185,069 | 1% | ||
anthonyadavisii | 0 | 34,000,736,932 | 100% | ||
jwolf | 0 | 4,986,110,878 | 5% | ||
inquiringtimes | 0 | 87,036,549,913 | 49% |
So what's the solution? It has to come at the coding level, no?
post_id | 36,308,362 |
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author | anchovy |
permlink | re-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180302t233200273z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-02 23:32:00 |
last_update | 2018-03-02 23:32:00 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
anthonyadavisii | 0 | 2,338,675,027 | 7% |
I feel there is no simple solution, because Steemit is constantly developing and adding new features without addressing the current issues. And with more code, come more bugs, so the old bugs/problems will keep piling up until the sand pyramid collapses. I sincerly hope that doesn't happen and to prevent that, the system needs to halt anything unecessary (or not in production) and focus on the present problems. Once we have a **solid foundation** that WORKS for a while, then we can happily move on to other aggrandizing things. I can compare the current state of things to the myth of multitasking. Trying to do everything at the same time is NOT productive. *Fewer Priorities Leads to Better Work*.
post_id | 36,490,239 |
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author | drakos |
permlink | re-anchovy-re-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180303t223226669z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-03 22:32:27 |
last_update | 2018-03-03 22:32:27 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
pharesim | 0 | 91,518,365,472 | 0.02% | ||
sykochica | 0 | 4,208,494,463 | 1% | ||
the-resistance | 0 | 3,123,879,702 | 100% |
We have some interrim solutions in place but the definitive solution would likely require a code change. However, if the witness ranks have been compromised by the abusers, the likelihood of that happening is remote. Check out @flagawhale if you would like to see a grassroots and crowdfunded approach to fighting high order abuse.
post_id | 36,669,828 |
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author | anthonyadavisii |
permlink | re-anchovy-re-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180304t191900030z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "users": ["flagawhale"], "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-04 19:19:03 |
last_update | 2018-03-04 19:19:03 |
depth | 4 |
children | 0 |
net_rshares | -68,131,964,061 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
done | 0 | -84,632,452,840 | -1% | ||
trump3t | 0 | 3,328,349,171 | 100% | ||
flagawhale | 0 | 13,172,139,608 | 100% |
Do you think we have enough visibility yet? To me, we could do more. This could be a regular topic of discussion with actual data. Weekly reports (maybe even daily reports?) and ask for engagement from the voters. I too often see people complaining about the author without calling out the actual voters who are doing the distribution from the rewards pool. Why don't we focus on the voters more? Why don't we have reports that don't assume blame, but instead try to explain? There may be valid reasons why some people decide to add others to voting bots. If we don't know those reasons, we can think it's a scammy voting ring. If we do, maybe we can reset our expectations on how (and why) people use their own Steem Power as they choose. Many of the examples I've seen of people caring about the rewards pool distribution are (IMO) immature comparisons to "rape" instead of rational, non-judgemental discussions trying to understand _why_ certain people vote the way they do. People have reasons. Our ignorance of those reasons doesn't justify our moral judgements. If, on the other hand, we know those reasons and can clearly articulate them in ways the community at large can fully agree (or disagree) with, then it's possible support for those people will be removed or added. If there's still disagreement about the value behind the reasons for a vote, then it's not an issue we consensus on, so even more discussion should take place before we claim the community has figured this out and our solutions to it have failed.
post_id | 36,649,717 |
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author | lukestokes |
permlink | re-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180304t170259948z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-04 17:03:00 |
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voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
joythewanderer | 0 | 5,818,126,001 | 1% |
> I too often see people complaining about the author without calling out the actual voters who are doing the distribution from the rewards pool. I think you are in a denial over the fact that most of these are actually enrichment schemes that involve paid voting, hidden common ownership of the voter and author accounts, or off-chain payment schemes that leave no evidence on the platform itself. I'm not moralizing here. I don't blame people for responding to the incentives as the platform presents them. It is just that the incentives are broken. P.S. I agree the 'rape' thing is sensationalist, not precise, and not helpful. My personal focus is not on name calling or even focused on any specific individuals. It is on looking at the mechanism and what it incentivizes. Currently the answer, unfortunately, is a lot of non-value-creating behavior.
post_id | 37,016,265 |
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author | smooth |
permlink | re-lukestokes-re-smooth-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180306t104004600z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-06 10:40:06 |
last_update | 2018-03-06 10:40:06 |
depth | 4 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
jwolf | 0 | 4,986,110,878 | 5% |
I agree with you and I have similar thoughts. What if I really like you as a person and upvote you every day (manually or automatically) regardless of the content? Or because I want to support you financially?
post_id | 36,311,888 |
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author | therealwolf |
permlink | re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180303t000115782z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-03 00:01:12 |
last_update | 2018-03-03 00:01:12 |
depth | 2 |
children | 3 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2018-03-10 00:01:12 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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author_reputation | 371,535,229,097,172 |
root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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A great example is that my girlfriend is on Steemit and I know that if I don't upvote and resteem what she writes she'll get mad. Fortunately she puts a lot of work into what she writes so I don't feel bad about it, but it's a microcosm of what you are describing.
post_id | 36,452,981 |
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author | curtiscolwell |
permlink | re-therealwolf-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180303t175115779z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-03 17:51:15 |
last_update | 2018-03-03 17:51:15 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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You also might not get any more BJβs if you donβt vote for her. :)
post_id | 36,933,780 |
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author | rawdawg |
permlink | re-curtiscolwell-re-therealwolf-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180306t011239511z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-06 01:12:39 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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Why not accomplish both? The action to upvote is levied by [your] account's reputation score, an index of your blockchain voting history (collective upvotes, comments, and resteems). Should justify reason plenty, however, there are larger forces at work that reason escapes the rhythm of logic. I am unaware of sorting algorithms for the feed, similar to Facebook, in action here on Steemit, but if there is, it's much more flexible than the big Blue page. Steemit could employ automated bot services and controller/curators to divvy the flow of traffic, content, and category. SMT seems to offer at least partial complex to find a solution to financial exchange for content type, perhaps Proof-of-Brain concept may light the way to truly thoughtful, honest, information to earn author's weight in value. <center> <br> ### *Time is Art. In Life, all we have is Time. Why not make Art all the Time?* </center> - - - <center> ![ASC_EN_Original.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmaSE9PqEMnYdPmVUuU4pw5mqMUoGTzDdBd7VV8xdpG2m8/ASC_EN_Original.png) I am a proud @earthnation Steemit Guild Community member! Thanks to their loyal support, I am able to create a passive income stream that funds my creative output and delivers this original content directly to YOU. </center>
post_id | 36,467,444 |
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author | craigahamilton |
permlink | re-therealwolf-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180303t192745505z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "busy/2.4.0", "community": "busy", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-03 19:27:48 |
last_update | 2018-03-03 19:27:48 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
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I thought that the wars of flags can only be on our platform Golos (fork of Steemit for russians) (sarcasm) As I expected people are all the same:) It is better to maintain good posts than to fight, there is still one pool. If good posts get upvotes, then scoundrels get less) We need to use positive reinforcement.
post_id | 36,820,756 |
---|---|
author | lady-n |
permlink | re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180305t124705044z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-05 12:47:06 |
last_update | 2018-03-05 12:47:06 |
depth | 2 |
children | 1 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2018-03-12 12:47:06 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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body_length | 315 |
author_reputation | 21,933,660,204 |
root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
There's also this useful quote to consider: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." I think it takes both positive reinforcement and clarity on what is accepted and what is not based on action which includes downvotes.
post_id | 36,846,729 |
---|---|
author | lukestokes |
permlink | re-lady-n-re-lukestokes-re-transisto-come-to-steemit-com-to-discover-the-best-content-on-the-internet-and-make-money-commenting-20180305t151339838z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2018-03-05 15:13:36 |
last_update | 2018-03-05 15:13:36 |
depth | 3 |
children | 0 |
net_rshares | 488,484,975 |
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cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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root_title | "Come to Steemit.com to discover the best content on the internet ... and make money commenting!!!" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
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lady-n | 0 | 488,484,975 | 100% |