Viewing a response to: @l0k1/re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t204220682z
I think it is a bit strange to punish behaviour that is the default in the interface. Other than that, no big deal, even though I do upvote my own posts, and I intend to keep doing that. I hardly ever upvote my own comments though, only occasionally to get some comments in the right order or to counteract a flag.
post_id | 5,589,787 |
---|---|
author | ocrdu |
permlink | re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t204950124z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-29 20:49:48 |
last_update | 2017-06-29 20:59:51 |
depth | 3 |
children | 31 |
net_rshares | 55,428,082,163 |
last_payout | 2017-07-06 20:49:48 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.417 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.066 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 314 |
author_reputation | 140,892,828,816,537 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
remlaps | 0 | 37,008,406,837 | 100% | ||
personz | 0 | 18,419,675,326 | 16% |
I had been thinking that the default was a problem. I [made an issue](https://github.com/steemit/condenser/issues/1540) for it and [pull request](https://github.com/steemit/condenser/pull/1541) to change this. No big deal maybe, but what do you think of the stated issues though? Self appraisal, reward and bandwidth usage?
post_id | 5,594,124 |
---|---|
author | personz |
permlink | re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t213338665z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "links": ["https://github.com/steemit/condenser/issues/1540", "https://github.com/steemit/condenser/pull/1541"], "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-29 21:33:39 |
last_update | 2017-06-29 22:10:42 |
depth | 4 |
children | 26 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2017-07-06 21:33:39 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 324 |
author_reputation | 42,440,234,781,798 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
First, I'm not a fan of flagging. I'm especially not a fan of automated flagging. And I'm especially especially not a fan of organizing an online mob to deprive stakeholders of their agency. Second, the issue is spam, not self-voting, so you're targeting the wrong problem. Votes for low-quality content are harmful to the platform whether they're cast by self-voters, sybil-voters, a group of collaborators, bots, or random strangers. Similarly, votes for high quality content are valuable in all of those cases. If I understand the project, you will cancel out the good with the bad, when you have absolutely no basis to know which dominates, and even if it is currently tilted towards bad, the community hasn't had time to adapt to HF19 yet. Third, I am particularly offended that @l0k1, who 3 or 4 months ago was writing posts that amounted to "F*&! Steem and its crappy code, I'm going to Dawn Network." now presumes to dictate how I should vote. Lastly, some of the people doing the self-voting have some serious stakes in their wallets. How long do you suppose it will be 'til they launch their own bot to counter the @smackdown.kitty votes? And that bot has the edge because it will earn curation rewards. If I could make a suggestion, I would suggest following cheetah's lead and upvoting with very-low steempower so that humans can use that vote as a signal to guide their own voting (and muting) decisions.
post_id | 5,596,499 |
---|---|
author | remlaps |
permlink | re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t215927923z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "users": ["l0k1", "smackdown.kitty"], "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-29 21:59:24 |
last_update | 2017-06-29 23:31:42 |
depth | 5 |
children | 14 |
net_rshares | 19,458,739,408 |
last_payout | 2017-07-06 21:59:24 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.154 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.014 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 1,430 |
author_reputation | 288,403,150,312,661 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
stephmckenzie | 0 | 2,640,774,980 | 5% | ||
personz | 0 | 16,817,964,428 | 16% | ||
lexiconical | 0 | 0 | 4% |
I'm aware of your position on bots from our previous discussions, and wouldn't expect that aspect to be attractive to you. I disagree that there is any agency being removed, rather it is everyone's prerogative on how to use their stake and this extends to down voting / flagging. Mob is just a pejorative term for collective action. @l0k1 made a [good point](https://steemit.com/games/@lukestokes/table-top-game-reviews-mastermind#@l0k1/re-eeks-re-lukestokes-re-eeks-re-lukestokes-table-top-game-reviews-mastermind-20170627t191153009z) in a comment earlier > individuals are not qualified judges of their own work If Steemit should be designed to create the incentive for high quality content to be rewarded, surely self voting should not be so incentivised as it will promote the content of those with stake, rather than the opinion of the populous. Whether you disagree or agree with the method, what about the question of whether or not self voting is problematic. I think it is, you don't say exactly.
post_id | 5,597,388 |
---|---|
author | personz |
permlink | re-remlaps-re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t220910236z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "users": ["l0k1"], "links": ["https://steemit.com/games/@lukestokes/table-top-game-reviews-mastermind#@l0k1/re-eeks-re-lukestokes-re-eeks-re-lukestokes-table-top-game-reviews-mastermind-20170627t191153009z"], "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-29 22:09:09 |
last_update | 2017-06-29 22:09:09 |
depth | 6 |
children | 5 |
net_rshares | 18,607,578,856 |
last_payout | 2017-07-06 22:09:09 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.120 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.039 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 1,010 |
author_reputation | 42,440,234,781,798 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
remlaps | 0 | 18,607,578,856 | 50% |
Self voting is spam, as far as the central purpose of Steem goes - rewarding content that is highly regarded. People only do it because button.
post_id | 5,616,363 |
---|---|
author | l0k1 |
permlink | re-remlaps-re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t021615589z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 02:16:15 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 02:16:15 |
depth | 6 |
children | 6 |
net_rshares | 17,989,000,220 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 02:16:15 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.116 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.038 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 143 |
author_reputation | 94,769,080,451,415 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
remlaps | 0 | 17,989,000,220 | 50% |
I have updated the post to include a short summary at the beginning of what and how I think she should smack down this behaviour. Like you are suggesting, perhaps for any user she has previously flagged, if they stop, she instead gives them a 1% upvote, and resets the counter. This way the users will notice that every one of their posts gets an upvote every time they don't self vote.
post_id | 5,617,716 |
---|---|
author | l0k1 |
permlink | re-remlaps-re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t023502054z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 02:35:03 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 02:35:03 |
depth | 6 |
children | 0 |
net_rshares | 18,195,770,338 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 02:35:03 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.118 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.038 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 386 |
author_reputation | 94,769,080,451,415 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
remlaps | 0 | 18,195,770,338 | 50% |
I'm still thinking about it. There is a rather large class of people for whom self-upvoting their main posts is the only way to see any return, what with curating being rather slack for many. I also do it for the little bit of extra money and, as a remote second reason, to give myself a pat on the back. Because I can. I don't really mind self-upvoting, tbh, I mind repetitive self-upvoting of spammy comments. Repetitive, self-upvoted main postings are very visible to everyone, but dito comments are far less easily noticed. As a solution to self-upvoting spammy comments, I don't think this will work, as the people who do such things are in all probability the same people who will circumvent it by using an extra account or extending the scope of existing circle jerks. That means you can't solve the problem without judging the spamminess of comments and the voting going on. A bot can give an indication something is amiss, but in the end this requires human judgment. For the purpose of Steemit, I am just a user, and not interested in bandwidth considerations. Get things to work the way you want them, and then fix the bandwidth problems, if any. Edit: I like experiments, and I would even like to see how this plays out, as long as the bot owners have the good grace to kill the bot when things don't go as intended and the perceived problem isn't solved.
post_id | 5,597,408 |
---|---|
author | ocrdu |
permlink | re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t220930377z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-29 22:09:30 |
last_update | 2017-06-29 22:11:51 |
depth | 5 |
children | 10 |
net_rshares | 35,218,792,408 |
last_payout | 2017-07-06 22:09:30 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.274 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.032 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 1,372 |
author_reputation | 140,892,828,816,537 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
remlaps | 0 | 18,400,827,980 | 50% | ||
personz | 0 | 16,817,964,428 | 16% |
> There is a rather large class of people for whom self-upvoting their main posts is the only way to see any return, what with curating being rather slack for many. This has only been true for a handful of days so the way you've described it here is not really true. It's precisely the "because I can" angle that the bot is designed to challenge. I get you, it's the incentive and why not? But I feel it's negative over all. We're highlighting an area that requires a systems level change.
post_id | 5,597,850 |
---|---|
author | personz |
permlink | re-ocrdu-re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170629t221431475z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-29 22:14:30 |
last_update | 2017-06-29 22:14:30 |
depth | 6 |
children | 8 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2017-07-06 22:14:30 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 491 |
author_reputation | 42,440,234,781,798 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
As described in the updated section above, smackdown kitty will be giving upvotes to any user it previously flagged due to self voting. The upvote will only be small, maybe 1%, but it will be another number to the user's comments. Yes, every one of their comments not self-upvoted. And if they resume, the counter continues upwards.
post_id | 5,628,094 |
---|---|
author | l0k1 |
permlink | re-ocrdu-re-personz-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t050504070z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 05:05:06 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 05:05:06 |
depth | 6 |
children | 0 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 05:05:06 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 332 |
author_reputation | 94,769,080,451,415 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
I have revised this, we are going to leave the original posts alone, and only mark the comments with very low powered flags, that will slowly escalate linearly with each subsequent self vote by a user.
post_id | 5,627,974 |
---|---|
author | l0k1 |
permlink | re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t050329552z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 05:03:30 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 05:03:30 |
depth | 4 |
children | 2 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 05:03:30 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 201 |
author_reputation | 94,769,080,451,415 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
Sheesh, you're up early 8-). I think that way of operating will get the most support from the community, as it operates more precisely where the annoyance is. Can't be your test subject anymore then though, as I don't upvote my comments. I will if you want me to, though.
post_id | 5,628,969 |
---|---|
author | ocrdu |
permlink | re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t051755552z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 05:17:54 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 05:30:39 |
depth | 5 |
children | 1 |
net_rshares | 24,085,947,679 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 05:17:54 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.172 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.036 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 273 |
author_reputation | 140,892,828,816,537 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
l0k1 | 0 | 22,473,897,715 | 100% |
The kitty is ready, and we have the first draft of the code and today I'll be revising it. Kitty will also generate 'hall of shame' lists of the top 50 self voters every day and I'll be posting it with payout declined. But we are not letting the cat out of the bag until we have tested it on ourselves and whoever wants to - message me (@l0k1) or @personz in the chat to get added to the test list. Yes, I wake up at about 30 minutes before dawn, every day, my apartmennt has an east facing window and from 7am to about 11am I can sit at my computer, *and* get direct sun exposure, and yes, I am doing this every day. For my health. I am resetting my body's circadian clocks with this and earthing, to suppress EMF interference with the sensing of the Schumann resonance, which is natures reference clock, and which all living things evolved to depend upon. Biological processes are complex trees of dependent sequences and when they are out of sync, you get sick. It's the number one cause of modern illness.
post_id | 5,630,518 |
---|---|
author | l0k1 |
permlink | re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t054212249z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "users": ["personz"], "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 05:42:12 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 05:44:57 |
depth | 6 |
children | 0 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 05:42:12 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 1,010 |
author_reputation | 94,769,080,451,415 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |
I agree it would be better to not punish self upvoted posts for the time being, but keep in mind that there are different user interfaces and not all behave the same.
post_id | 5,635,200 |
---|---|
author | the-ego-is-you |
permlink | re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-re-ocrdu-re-l0k1-introducing-smackdown-kitty-20170630t065043962z |
category | steem |
json_metadata | "{"app": "steemit/0.1", "tags": ["steem"]}" |
created | 2017-06-30 06:50:42 |
last_update | 2017-06-30 06:50:42 |
depth | 4 |
children | 0 |
net_rshares | 0 |
last_payout | 2017-07-07 06:50:42 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 SBD |
promoted | 0.000 SBD |
body_length | 166 |
author_reputation | 7,025,328,989,730 |
root_title | "Introducing Smackdown Kitty" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 SBD |
percent_steem_dollars | 10,000 |