RE: Regarding Transisto and Flagging by creatr

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Viewing a response to: @anarcho-andrei/regarding-transisto-and-flagging

· @creatr ·
$0.35
Your points about the stated rationale for the flags are well made and well taken. However, I'd like to respectfully discuss this comment:
>*"I don't think flagging should disappear or that it should somehow change functionally."*

Unfortunately, as long as the diametrically opposite actions of adding value to a post and removing value from a post are poorly described *semantically,* this kind of problem will continue to occur.

IMHO, these behaviors should be described symmetrically, using English words that are likewise precisely opposite in meaning--i.e., upvote v downvote.

If the platform needs "flags," there should be a separate channel for that. A "flag" means that something is abusive, gaming, or otherwise a direct attack on the platform (hacking or theft) or on the poster (ad-hominem).

Furthermore, it isn't really crystal clear to me *why* we really need the downvote function, but I will confess that I am not really knowledgable enough in the detailed workings of the financial side to meaningfully make a case for that.

Thanks for a great article!

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vote details (4)
@anarcho-andrei ·
$0.03
Oh I agree with that comment wholeheartedly.  If it's going to function as a balance to upvotes (which it currently does), then it should be called downvoting.  As far as why we really need it, look no further than the actual spam that gets nuked daily.  I think it serves a healthy function, but there needs to be some established standards that the community can rally around when someone abuses that function.  This is one such case.
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@creatr ·
I've seen what I consider to be better proposals for dealing with the proliferation of spam... from @mattclarke in particular, as I recall, but there may be others.

I think one of the best would be make commenting a privilege earned by gaining reputation.  A true "flag" would then affect reputation only, closing the door on spam.

In any case, it's pretty clear that there's work to be done! ;)
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@anarcho-andrei ·
$0.03
Oooh, I like that idea.  Make reputation actually mean something significant besides being an indicator of status.
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@steemitqa ·
$0.03
Communities is going to solve a lot of things.
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@onthewayout ·
$1.05
To better understand why downvoting is necessary I recommend to read [this post](https://steemit.com/steem/@bitcoindoom/why-down-votes-and-flags-are-an-unavoidable-consequence-of-game-theory). One paragraph in particular is very enlightening:

> What many people may not realize is that Ned and Dan originally set out to design an up-vote-only, positive platform. They felt that the negative experience of "losing money by popular vote" would harm user experience. The system of up and down votes that we have to day is out of necessity not desire. We have to design systems that are fully compatible with the laws of human nature (game theory).
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@creatr ·
$0.16
Thank you very much for the quote and reference. I will read that post and, hopefully, arrive at a better understanding.

I really appreciate your stepping in and offering me this very relevant information! :)

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@arthur.grafo ·
$0.03
Actually, 'laws of human nature' or game theory, is just a political tool and should not have a place in here (it was used to take control away from the governments and give it to the corporations so that they police themselves, for example, if you design a car with faulty brakes, the government cannot do anything, game theory says the corporation will recall the cars and fix them because it pays them to do so). We've all seen the results of those theories, but, more important, I thought that Steemit was based on the free market.

In other words, I write a poem, a story or paint a picture. anarcho thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread and pays me $200. Whatever else anyone else thinks of my talent, to anarcho it is worth $200 and nobody else has the right to impose his own opinion on us by taking away most of that money. In my view, not only is he trampling on my rights and the rights of anarcho to determine according to his tastes what the market value of my work is, he is also stealing the funds from both of us, for after all, he may claim that the money is not mine until the week is up, but he cannot make the same claim vis-a-vie  anarcho. To him it will also feel as if his money was stolen, and so it will be so.

I am against flagging for any reason apart from controlling criminal behaviour, the rest of the time, market forces should be left to impose the conditions. That is fair; you don't like my work, then don't upvote me; that happens often enough, I'll realise I am wasting my time and move on, without anyone having to abuse me or harm my sense of dignity.

 The moment it is used  for personal users to impose an opinion, then I consider that act as becoming, itself, criminal behaviour and demeans what Steemit was meant to become.
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vote details (1)
@rocking-dave ·
$0.03
I think upvotes are called upvotes for a reason and flags are called flags for a reason. They are not the same by design. Upvotes allocate reward and flags are to be used with caution to take rewards away from posts that are abuse. Anytime a flag is used to counter something that is not abuse, I view the act of flagging as abuse itself.
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vote details (1)
@creatr ·
$0.04
Hi Dave,
>*"They are not the same by design."*

I fear that in this instance you are wrong.

The [**Steemit White Paper**](https://steem.io/SteemWhitePaper.pdf) itself tells a different story. They *are* the same, by design. At least they are said to be.

In fact, the word "Flag" is found nowhere within the WhitePaper. Search as you will you'll only find "votes," either up or down.

However, I have heard it said that down votes affect reputation more strongly than up votes. I am having a great deal of difficulty finding accurate documentation about that, but I'll keep trying from time to time.

The word "flag" has a very negative connotation, and perhaps for that reason alone the user interface should be modified to show up and down votes instead.
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vote details (1)
@rocking-dave · (edited)
$0.03
Thanks for the correction then, it will help me have my facts straight in the future.

I would certainly advocate for this to be the way we view them though.

I wonder if changing the downvote to a flag was indeed a conscious decision and I wonder what's in the code base, not just on the most popular interface.
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