RE: Steem-Monster Daily Rewards Are Too High / Suggested Changes ! by pizzachain

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Viewing a response to: @rentmoney/re-pizzachain-re-rentmoney-steem-monster-daily-rewards-are-too-high-20190113t201223728z

· @pizzachain ·
$0.04
> Percentage wise lower level players should be getting more as to keep them active in the game and give them the feeling of winning.

Interesting... Isn't that exactly what is already happening? Lower players get a much higher percentage relative to their collection, than high players get. 

Again, the only arguments you're using are: "How many are in the league is irrelevant" and "Rewards were reduced everywhere", which were both, whether you like it or not, already countered in the discord. But you're blatantly ignoring that fact, which makes it quite annoying to discuss this matter with you. You're expecting the other side to be convinced of your point, but you aren't open to be convinced by others. 

Now you're bringing up the poker/other gambling clients argument again. However, you guessed my response almost perfectly right: This ain't fucking poker. Additionally, I got no idea how Poker/other gambling clients handle high-paying customers vs low paying customers and how it all works exactly. 

But if it works so great in Poker/other gambling clients, why can't you give any good arguments for why it would work well here? Of course, you say it works well in Poker, but you don't say why. You only say that it does, which is quite annoying to verify.
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@rentmoney ·
$0.03
No, what currently is going on is the guys at the top are getting too much of the rewards. A 20 - 1 ratio is too big ....  They also get a 30 -1 ratio in end of season rewards.

As pointed out its healthy to give more to the lower level players as it keeps them around and keeps them motivated to keep climbing to higher ranks. In return they are more likely to spend their funds on the game thus helping the whole games ecosystem.

You did not counter my arguments, you simply gave your opinion in which I and many others do not agree with. I am fully opened to be convinced but you have yet to accomplish that. 

You make blanket statements like, this isn't poker while not understanding how both are very similar to each other. If you don't understand the poker industry or its history perhaps you should take a more subtle approach when speaking of things you have little knowledge on.

I have provided you with my points and arguments but you seem to not want to accept them. Which is fine ... I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it. All one needs to do is go read the most recent update post to see the majority of the community doesn't like the changes.  If cuts were even across the board then it wouldn't of been nearly as bad and something I could support but as is, I view the cuts as unfair to the little guy.
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@pizzachain ·
> No, what currently is going on is the guys at the top are getting too much of the rewards. A 20 - 1 ratio is too big .... They also get a 30 -1 ratio in end of season rewards.

If you actually read my earlier response, you'd know why that's a stupid thing to say.

> As pointed out its healthy to give more to the lower level players as it keeps them around and keeps them motivated to keep climbing to higher ranks. In return they are more likely to spend their funds on the game thus helping the whole games ecosystem.

As I also pointed out, we should give more cards to the lower level players **RELATIVE TO THEIR CARD COLLECTION**. And that's happening currently. 

> You did not counter my arguments, you simply gave your opinion in which I and many others do not agree with. I am fully opened to be convinced but you have yet to accomplish that.

I did counter your arguments. I explained why they are garbage. People on discord backed me up on that, yet you discard anything we say. That's not what 'fully open to be convinced' means.

> You make blanket statements like, this isn't poker while not understanding how both are very similar to each other. If you don't understand the poker industry or its history perhaps you should take a more subtle approach when speaking of things you have little knowledge on.

I know how poker works, so I know it's not at all the same as SteemMonsters. And I've been careful with what I've said about the similarities between SteemMonsters and the poker industry. However, fact is that SteemMonsters and Poker aren't the same. Similar in some ways? Yes. But not the same. Just saiyng "Poker does this, so we should also do this", is a really, really bad argument.

> I have provided you with my points and arguments but you seem to not want to accept them. Which is fine ... I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it. All one needs to do is go read the most recent update post to see the majority of the community doesn't like the changes. If cuts were even across the board then it wouldn't of been nearly as bad and something I could support but as is, I view the cuts as unfair to the little guy.

Have you ever thought about the fact that *maybe*, **MAYBE** there is a reason that the reductions weren't even? And if we're doing even reductions, we also gotta reduce bronze to uhhh, 0 cards? Or wait, if we follow your reductions, we'll have to reduce bronze quest rewards to about -4 cards per day. 

"Congratulations sir, you have now been charged 4 cards for completing your quest!"
Would the community like that? Nah.

There are reasons for why the reductions weren't done equally everywhere. Some very good reasons. Fact is that:

Champion III quest reward is reduced by 4 cards/day to 16 cards/day.
Champion II quest reward is reduced by 2 cards/day to 18 cards/day.
Champion I quest reward is reduced by 0 cards/day to 20 cards/day.

Now you gotta note that it is **WAY** harder for a Champion (Especially for a Champion I) to:
1. Get to the required league.
2. Finish their quest there.

---
As I've mentioned earlier, you're 20:1 statement makes no sense, since it really only counts in extreme cases where:
The 20 cards are rewarded to really good players with really good cards.
The 1 card is rewarded to very new/really bad players with really bad cards.

Does the 1-card player figure out that melee doesn't attack from the back and ranged doesn't attack from the front? Voila, there he goes into silver!

So stop repeating arguments I have already **countered**. Yes, I said "countered", because I list a valid reason for why it's not a good argument, which you don't seem to do with my arguments.
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vote details (1)
@rentmoney · (edited)
$0.03
I did read your response and responded accordingly.

> As I also pointed out, we should give more cards to the lower level players RELATIVE TO THEIR CARD COLLECTION. And that's happening currently.

The amount of cards someone has don't relate to what league someone is in and thus makes your whole point null.

> I did counter your arguments. I explained why they are garbage. People on discord backed me up on that, yet you discard anything we say. That's not what 'fully open to be convinced' means.

Some backed you which is to be expected as the conversation took place in the maverick discord.  Community leaders like @simplymike and @davemccoy are reaching out expressing their displeasure with the system as are notable players in the game as evident in this topic and even more so in the SM topic. But I suppose we all should just agree with you ... right ... Right ?

> I know how poker works, so I know it's not at all the same as SteemMonsters. And I've been careful with what I've said about the similarities between SteemMonsters and the poker industry. However, fact is that SteemMonsters and Poker aren't the same. Similar in some ways? Yes. But not the same. Just saiyng "Poker does this, so we should also do this", is a really, really bad argument.

They are very close to the same. Both rewards players with freerolls. Both have buy in games. Both have a gambling aspect. Both need the user to have skill to be successful. Poker started with rewarding tons to top depositors / investors as well. It didn't turn out well and lots of once great sites are now no longer. 

You keep contradicting yourself when it best suits your needs. 

A quote from you

> Additionally, I got no idea how Poker/other gambling clients handle high-paying customers vs low paying customers and how it all works exactly.

Very shortly later 
> I know how poker works, so I know it's not at all the same as SteemMonsters. And I've been careful with what I've said about the similarities between SteemMonsters and the poker industry

> Have you ever thought about the fact that maybe, MAYBE there is a reason that the reductions weren't even?

Have you ever thought ... maybe, MAYBE the ratio was already unfair to begin with. The cutback only made them more unfair. Players do not need 20 free cards a day .... Its a ridiculous high number and I wonder how they came up with it. SM big issue is its own generosity .... they started with giving out too much rewards and are stuck in that loop.


We can go back and forth on this all day. We simply aren't going to see eye to eye. I respect your opinion (as I already noted) but don't agree with it. Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts on the subject.
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