Vaccine Debate: VACCINES ARE SAFE AND PEOPLE ARE MORALLY OBLIGATED TO TAKE THEM. by kafkanarchy84

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· @kafkanarchy84 ·
$251.36
Vaccine Debate: VACCINES ARE SAFE AND PEOPLE ARE MORALLY OBLIGATED TO TAKE THEM.
![IMG_3799.JPG](https://steemitimages.com/DQmPNPUgxvDGsDh3vu8S1E5YndBXbPCA3SvM76HDHLNydQh/IMG_3799.JPG)

# We had a great debate tonight.
***

**RESOLUTION: Vaccines are safe and people are morally obligated to take them.**

**DEBATERS:**

Luke Van de Voorde: Affirmative
Graham Smith: Negative
Moderator: Shane Radliff
***
#

# Enjoy! Please vote on who you think made the best argument [HERE!](https://www.facebook.com/VoluntaryJapan/posts/977209335753158?notif_t=like&notif_id=1503415755563401)
***
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGUjl3Nk26w

# ~KafkA

[<center>![IMG_6356.jpg](https://s29.postimg.org/4tdrtkp53/IMG_6356.jpg)</center>](https://steemit.com/@kafkanarchy84)

***

***Graham Smith is a Voluntaryist activist, creator, and peaceful parent residing in Niigata City, Japan. Graham runs the "Voluntary Japan" online initiative with a presence here on Steem, as well as Facebook and Twitter. (Hit me up so I can stop talking about myself in the third person!)***

https://s1.postimg.org/kjwrwf33j/IMG_3160.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/7bus4yyxj/IMG_6887.jpg
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 54 others
👎  
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@michaelstobiersk ·
$2.48
This is an opinion about vaccines worth watching.

https://youtu.be/zncuOv9VBxw
👍  , , ,
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@antje ·
$0.36
This is child abuse on all levels!
👍  , , ,
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@michaelstobiersk ·
It is. So sad.
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@dodge9108 ·
It's one of the biggest crimes against humanity.
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@michaelstobiersk ·
Genocide......
👍  ,
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@michaelstobiersk ·
$0.04
Resteemed.
👍  
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
Cheers, thank you.
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@michaelstobiersk ·
$0.64
You're welcome.
👍  
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@asif4745 ·
wow
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@mehdibca ·
$1.97
Both of you did well it is a controversial topic so I can't pronounce myself on it as of now. I felt nervousness at the beginning but then things got smoother! Great to have watched it live and I would like to thank you both for addressing the questions I had! :)
👍  ,
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
Thanks so much for watching and for the questions!!!
👍  
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@asif4745 ·
Thanks .,.,.,..,.,.
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@antje ·
I'm glad your questions were answered.
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@mehdibca ·
Thanks! :)
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@shencoin ·
nice to see ur talk on vaccines and u talk better  from others guys @kafkanarchy ur talk really show ur knowledge and ur best confidence and i didnot know about this vaccines matters before see ur videos and know i understand some better from ur talk
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@antje ·
I see the producers of this video have come with a lot of friends to give support with uninformed, silly comments.  And there is even a benefit pyramid. You've planned that out well, haven't you! 
Please moms and dads, inform yourself and don't have your babies vaccined! PLEASE!!!
👍  ,
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
I am the producer of the video. I argued in the NEGATIVE. Please watch it before making such comments. This is a *debate* and not a "pro-vaccine" video.
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@fproductions ·
https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/1006503/files/20141111163255-benefits.jpg?1415752375
👍  
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@antje ·
This is promoting vaccine childabuse!
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@lifeworship ·
$0.28
The facts do not bear any of this out.

Infographics are not education.
👍  ,
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@shaneradliff ·
$0.26
Thanks for the questions, @Mehdibca. They were good ones!
👍  
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@saidulakbar ·
I really like your post, your post is very useful for me and I will wait for the next post. Have a good day for your friends
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@maya7 ·
$0.26
Great live show, you look very energetic and smart then your opponent. He looks like lazy and unenergic one. As I believe, the main motto of the debate is how enthusiastic u are in putting your point, I think here in the case you are excilent .Great job friend, heads of to you, have a great time, thanks.
👍  
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
Thank you, @maya7 :)
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@maya7 ·
Most welcome friend, it is my pleasure and luck to meet you here, thanks for everything. Resteem your post, have a great night friend. Thanks, want to hear more from you.
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@antje ·
Another one of your cronies ... What total liers you all are! Stop this childabuse and I shall write it until my keyboard falls apart or I'm banned from Steemit!
👍  
👎  
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
Antje. I don't know if you are a troll, or what, but I do not think vaccines are safe and agree that the pharmaceutical industry is engaged in child abuse. If you had watched the content you could have afforded yourself that understanding. If you continue spamming my threads and insulting my commenters I will have to flag you. This is your warning.
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@jennywebster · (edited)
$3.79
The government has paid out over 3 BILLION in compensation for vaccine injuries, through the NVICP. So is there an argument that vaccines are completely safe and effective? I'm not sure how such an argument can exist in light of those payments.  Now consider that that court system is adversarial and most cases get tossed. Now consider that it's estimated that only 10% of vaccine injuries are ever reported.
Three years ago a senior researcher at the CDC admitted that they omitted statistically significant data that linked MMR to autism. A recent ruling connected vaccines with SIDS. My own child is vaccine injured. You may think vaccines are safe until it happens to your own child. 
I blindly bought into it too. My son paid for my ignorance.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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@stillwater ·
$0.24
I've always wondered why the people "for" vaccines are so "for" everyone having to get them?  If their arguments are true then they could be surrounded by sick, unvaccinated  people and they would be safe and sound right?  I mean are they that worried about being alone or what?  Anyway to each his own.................
👍  , , , ,
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@lennstar ·
I am sure that is on the video somewhere, but well, if you have NEVER heard the basic reasons: 

A) Because they care about the health of other

B) Because there are people aho cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason, always or temporary. You are protecting them if there isn't a horde of sick people around.
👍  
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@lifeworship ·
$0.27
It's because they don't care about ruining the health of the public at large to 'protect' a minute percentage of sick people. 

Their arguments usually start with 'what if?'. That is no way to protect the health of the populace.
👍  
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@antje ·
I'm sorry to hear about your son and I know of many more vaccine injured children, some of which are carer  dependent adults now. Some received compensation, some didn't. Vaccine injuries are known to happen frequently for over 60 years! Books on explaining how vaccines work and why there are injuries are out on Amazon.com and have been available as long as I studied about alternative health. I will not understand how ANY mother or father who loves their child will have a needle stuck into this budding life unnecessarily. I have written about this before how my mother didn't allow us to be vaccined, instead she gave us organic food to eat and we were healthy while one of the junk food consuming family with 4 kids had 2 of them come down with polio, one permanently suffering. Why did the other 2 not get polio, why did my brother not get polio although we were playing with these kids? 

The above video was produced by the vaccine pushers, that is obvious and they have finally found their way onto Steemit. Welcome and good bye, I say. And if you really love your child and not just say so, inform yourself and forbid the doctors to vaccine this new precious life.
👍  , ,
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
$0.23
>The above video was produced by the vaccine pushers, that is obvious and they have finally found their way onto Steemit. 

You didn't watch the video, did you? The video is from my YouTube channel and I am anti-mandatory vaccines. You should really examine content before judging it. This was a debate in which I argued the negative.
👍  
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@lost.identity ·
$0.40
This is the truth. I have government documents showing the risks of vaccines. They are hidden constantly.
👍  , , , , ,
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@jarrydb123 ·
Would you be so kind as to share said government documents?
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@lennstar ·
>So is there an argument that vaccines are completely safe and effective?

No. There never was. Also nobody says trains are totally safe. They are still several times safer then cars, so saying its safer to travel by train is true. Same with vaccines, just that the difference is even bigger.
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
All this is garbage? 

https://youtu.be/xMAxs2duqNk
👍  
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@dodge9108 ·
WRONG!  More research needed by you dear man.
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@lifeworship ·
$0.22
So what you're saying seems to be, that we should make trains mandatory?
👍  
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@anadikc ·
If no vaccination - that cost could rise to 3 trillion my friend .
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@jennywebster ·
If no vaccination then the cost of vaccine injury could rise to 3 trillion? I'm sure that is not what you meant, I'm guessing you meant the cost of permanent injury from what are called "vaccine preventable diseases" and I completely disagree with you.
Most are harmless. Most are misunderstood. Measles and Chicken pox come to mind first. And everyone likes to whip out polio, too bad polio is a man made disease and very poorly understood. 
Mortality was down to almost zero for most of these harmless childhood illnesses before the vaccines came out. And we are learning today about the protection that building immunity naturally to these childhood illnesses provided... cancer being the main one. Chicken pox has been show to protect against the worst gliomas --and guess what is on the rise? Yep. Gliomas. We are messing with mother nature. I wish the best of luck in your studies and research on the topic. Start with Pub Med.
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@raist ·
$0.04
Great debate
👍  
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@farhannaqvi7 ·
i require 0.002 steem can you transfar i give 5 vote to your 5 post
👎  
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@coloured-content ·
What to make sure I am clear: Flagged because I toltally disagree
👎  
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@kafkanarchy84 · (edited)
Hello. Flags here on the platform usually are not used for mere disagreement, but this was a debate with two sides, if you read the post. What, specifically, do you disagree with? 

EDIT: Since I have waited two days and have not received a reply, I will be flagging your comment. When you remove your flag, I will remove this one. This is nothing personal, but I take downvotes seriously, and feel you have abused the feature. I consider this a self-defensive action.
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@antje ·
Oh, so now you want to advise us from Japan what we can and cannot do on Steemit. That's a bit strong! I can flag any content that is promoting childabuse. You are promoting childabuse, so you got a flag from @coloured-content. My word of advice to you @kafkarnarchy84: Get your power-down  done, cash in and use this money to stop the vaccine childabuse.
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@coloured-content ·
....Perhaps I have become lazy ! lolol
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@antje ·
If I see just one more comment from @kafkanarchy84 I shall flag them as well. There is NO DEBATE about VACCINE CHILDABUSE.
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
$0.72
If you do this I will have to take action. You have misunderstood my entire post. I am standing with the parents of vaccine-injured children! Actually watch the debate before passing judgement!
👍  ,
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@lifeworship ·
$3.74
Mandatory vaccinations is clearly abuse of children, as well as everyone who doesn't want them. Not only this, but any medical procedure that is performed without informed consent is a war crime under the Nuremberg code. People were hanged after the Nuremberg trials for forcing medical procedures on people without knowledge and/or consent. Children cannot consent. 

I know this is an emotional subject, but @kafkanarchy84 is clearly in agreement with you. The title of the post may have been confusing. Please do reconsider.

This Luke Van de Voorde obviously has no respect for self ownership, is sadly misinformed about the subject, and is the one who wants to force the People to do something against their will.

Sound ideas don't need to be mandatory, only flawed ones.

We have a difficult enough fight on our hands stopping the authoritarian, totalitarian mandatory vaccinators. Turning on each other is not going to help anyone.
👍  , ,
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@lifeworship ·
$0.29
Unfollowed and muted for abuse.
👍  ,
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@aboutyourbiz ·
$0.06
Kudos to Luke for taking the challenge, but he was not the winner.
👍  
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@lyndsaybowes ·
$1.36
Thank you for this debate!  Nice to see civil, intelligent discourse.
👍  ,
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
$0.28
Thank you!
👍  
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@lyndsaybowes ·
Very welcome <3
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@em3 ·
$0.56
Very interesting to watch.  Sadly, Luke is not as lucid a debater as you Graham.

Anyway, Luke discounted the pharmo profits of only 1%(1.5%!?).  That many industries would abandon something that would make so little.  My guess is (I did no research) that this measly profit is fairly safe. (Not that one year it is 4% and the next year a 2% loss, etc). That it is stable because all the factors are controlled: no threat of sueing, number of recipients is fairly predictable, its a govmt enforced monopoly, etc.  

Additionally, if it is similar to pharmaceuticals, a HUGE amount of money is paid out to 'grease the palms' of all the doctors and pushers/sales reps. (And probably the executives all receive nice perks and bonus on top of large salaries.)

In volume, everyone and their DOG would drool over a guaranteed 1.5% profit after all those(up and down the whole ladder) involved had been comfortably 'compensated'.

And it is not at all a comparrison like: you and me investing $100 and getting back $101.50.  This is more like walking into/upon an already running machine that just spits out xxx$ every year because all the factors(inputs and outputs) are fairly guaranteed.

A profit of $10/person from 50Million people is $500,000,000. (The people involved may be fewer in USA, but more than one vaccine is administered per person...so, averages the same)

I had another point...but forget.  Back to continuing with the questions portion of the video.
👍  , ,
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@antje ·
So it's all down to dollars here! How very convenient! Childabuse hidden behind $$$$. Wasn't it always like that?
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@dodge9108 ·
Vaccines create customers for life for the Pharmaceutical companies.  A good read is Medical Mafia.
👍  
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@doitvoluntarily ·
$0.66
you're doing some really great work man &#128077; &#128170;
👍  
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
Thanks man!
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@steemitboard ·
Congratulations @kafkanarchy84! You have completed some achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

[![](https://steemitimages.com/70x80/http://steemitboard.com/notifications/post4day.png)](http://steemitboard.com/@kafkanarchy84) You published 4 posts in one day

Click on any badge to view your own Board of Honor on SteemitBoard.
For more information about SteemitBoard, click [here](https://steemit.com/@steemitboard)

If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word `STOP`

> By upvoting this notification, you can help all Steemit users. Learn how [here](https://steemit.com/steemitboard/@steemitboard/http-i-cubeupload-com-7ciqeo-png)!
👍  
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@antje ·
And now they even get a badge of honor here. The mind boggles, but computer programs don't suffer the pains of a vaccine damaged child and its parents.
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@dado13btc ·
$0.03
Bill Gates told that we can reduce population by 10% by modern medicine such as vaccines....
👍  
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@sensistar ·
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFbUQ5psdVo
👍  
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@sensistar ·
$0.05
talks about whats really in the vaccines, if u really want to know...
👍  ,
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@antje ·
Thank you, @senistar for your contribution here. You seem to be the only one outside this group of vaccine pushers that want to confuse people with vaccine positive headlines and debates inside the video. Debate indeed. I don't know what to do anymore to get young parents informed about the dangers and absolute NON-BENEFITS of vaccines, so they can stop this childabuse. At least for their own precious baby.
👍  
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@sensistar ·
$0.27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhzs3f6KDT0
👍  ,
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@dado13btc ·
$0.04
You are soo wrong about this post that i almost flagged it xD
👍  ,
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@lifeworship ·
$0.44
'You are soo wrong', 

Is this a new kind of valid argument?

No, it is a baseless assertion which you follow immediately with an impotent threat and then an appeal to ridicule.
👍  , ,
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@dado13btc ·
I told you in short! don't wanna to start a debate now but if you insist upvote and  i will...
👍  
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@sift666 · (edited)
$0.29
Bill Gates has designed a new operating system to stop people like you in your tracks - It's called Windows 10, and it will distract you so much you will forget what you are doing and line up to be vaccinated and do your part in global depopulation :)
![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdbHcSV7iZDRC66tLjVL8PWqHvRRAaFuQTarCrV6oVCtX/image.png)
👍  ,
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@dbarzo ·
Mandatory anything is a major problem, especially a vaccine that will probably do more harm than good. Most fit in this category, of doing little to no good.
👍  
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@djatthetaxappusa ·
It's not about debate it's about truth. The professional debaters can and will debate any side of an argument for a fee. We have to be smart enough to look at the reality of these situations and reject the Madison Avenue explanation that tells us what we just saw isn't true.
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@kafkanarchy84 · (edited)
This debate was a debate about the truth, and a lot of work went into it. If the only discussion being had is the polarized, violent drivel of the MSM, then we are surely all in trouble.
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@pwnapple ·
Props Luke, you won IMO, even with a shitty feed lol
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@zacharytrainor · (edited)
This man expresses in 90 seconds my sentiments exactly, STARTING at the 2 MINUTE 50 SECOND point:

https://youtu.be/MWI-Fk2tNF4?t=2m50s
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@anadikc ·
Vaccines are safe. I would like to recommend this link to @freedomvigilante . We both had discussion on Safety of Hep B vaccine in neonates. Maybe this is the most stuitable platform to discuss.
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@kafkanarchy84 ·
>Vaccines are safe.

I am not sure what your meaning is here. Do you mean that no further research into the safety of any and all current vaccines is not required or warranted?
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@anadikc ·
Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I had this heated debate with one of our bloggers who was saying no vaccine is safe to use and how it poisons people and children. Vaccines reach us after completing after various trial phases.The technology we have now guarantees that the vaccine is in its purest form .Vaccine failures and safety is not just the concern of the vial that is packed. The chain - from the factory to the patient has to be maintained. Inappropriate storage and technique are the most important cases of vaccine related mishaps. Most of the vaccines that we  use have be tested, trialed and proven with data of immunization available from upto 20 years. I have to say this is the one of the most extensive followup studies that has been every made. 
We should also look at the number of deaths/diablity prevented due to vaccine.  But as you rightly pointed out - Safety needs to be mandated and can never be compromised.  sometimes, for eg : in cases of ebola and Zika, when the world had no precautionary measures and t - 0 , vaccines were made available immediately - without appropriate trials and results , which did save lifes. For such vaccines, trial results must be awaited. For existing vaccines, the formulation is already there and long term results have been promising aswell. Why try tweaking for better when you already have the best in such cases.
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