Trending could be better ... (test) by transisto

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· @transisto · (edited)
$3.64
Trending could be better ... (test)
This is a test meant to bring attention to an incentive flaw in the algorithm to calculate what should be "Trending".
The problem is the merging the comments and post reward.
"Trending" so far is the only meaningful way Steemit.com has to filter out top content. (Apart from viewing a single #Tag)

### People visiting steemit.com deserve something more/better than what is currently "Hot" and "Trending"
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 3 others
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@transisto ·
$0.05
Trending is broken.
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👎  
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@transisto ·
$0.82
Steemit is broken.
👍  ,
👎  
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@transisto ·
$0.82
What is Steemit inc. doing ?
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👎  
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vote details (3)
@whatsup · (edited)
$0.77
No it isn't.  It is taking the full value of the post including the value of the comments.  

What IS happening is people are upvoting comments much more than usual.

I don't know why.
👍  , , , , ,
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@transisto ·
Hello World !
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@transisto ·
$0.07
Hidden ...
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@transisto ·
$0.06
Hidden ...
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@transisto ·
$0.09
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@transisto ·
$0.08
Hidden...
👍  ,
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@transisto ·
$0.07
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@transisto ·
$0.69
.
👍  
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@transisto ·
$0.81
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@transisto ·
$0.59
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@transisto ·
.
👍  
👎  
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@transisto ·
$0.38
.
👍  
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@transisto ·
.
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@transisto ·
$0.36
.
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@stellabelle ·
$0.43
just did a test to see if i could make your greyed out comment back to normal. Test success!
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@radiv ·
I judge steemit not give more details on the post, if it is judged from the standpoint of the article, the point is in the technique of writing articles must be given. then the photo is posted in this steemit criteria how do? ... needs to be explained anyway. if there is a target steemit that in the administration of the program, also described in detail, there was nothing to hide
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@kingscrown ·
$0.04
im writing here too for your test!
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vote details (6)
@whatsup ·
$0.75
The test... Is in money making comments, not just comments alone.
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vote details (5)
@inertia ·
$0.72
Yep, it's using the `total_pending_payout_value` of the post now.

[![](https://cl.ly/0p442u1u3p1z/Image%202017-02-20%20at%205.17.37%20PM.png)](https://cl.ly/0p442u1u3p1z/Image%202017-02-20%20at%205.17.37%20PM.png)
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vote details (6)
@stellabelle ·
$0.36
very interesting! Even though transisto sees that as a negative, i see this as a huge positive! Finally commenting which indicates social energy is being detected! I'm ecstatic!!!
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@fyrstikken ·
$0.72
Flagged for Self-Voting Spam & your long list of self-voting comments that bring nothing of value to the steem chainbase.
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@transisto · (edited)
$0.54
It's a test mean to bring attention to an incentive flaw in the algorithm to calculate what should be "Trending". Merging the comments with the post. 
"Trending" so far is the only meaningful way Steemit has to filter top content. (Apart from viewing a single #Tag)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@fyrstikken ·
$0.49
The Trending page shows posts where the sum of the Author-Reward + Comments-Reward = Total rewards under the new system which I am not quite sure I am for or against, to be honest. It surely exposed some odd behavior of comments in undervalued posts for sure.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@stellabelle ·
$0.37
It is great! Finally we can see what actual humans are engaging with instead of bot votes!
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@sigmajin ·
$0.35
>chainbase

i kind of feel like you made this word up.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@fyrstikken ·
$0.35
old coins run on "blockchains" - Steem run on something much faster called "ChainBase", work-name Graphene 2.0
👍  
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@sigmajin ·
$0.48
@smooth mentioned in chat that this was already a known issue and that it was going away in HF17
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@transisto ·
$0.46
This is a Steemit.com problem, shouldn't have much to do with Steem itself.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@smooth ·
$1.91
It's actually not a known "issue", it is intended. The idea being that any high rewards, even buried in comments, would become visible and can be scrutinized by stakeholders for possible downvoting.

It is being removed because maintaining the tree sum on a blockchain isn't feasible if you don't limit the comment depth. That said, any organization is possible at the UI level using a more powerful front end instead of rendering directly from the steemd APIs.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@transisto ·
$0.43
People visiting Steemit shouldn't have to be exposed to post like this.

https://steemit.com/cn-programming/@abit/3dgckm

Which from what I understand must be a SP giveaway in Chinese.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@wingz ·
$0.49
I imagine many posts will look like this after HF17
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@ats-david · (edited)
Yep. We better get used to seeing this. There will be about 50 "Nice post" comments on everything. Because, you know...engagement is needed, and stuff. 

**_HF17: Make Steemit Scammy Again!_**
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@englishtchrivy ·
@wingz oh you're alive I mean active!
and getting comment rewards!
am glad to see you man!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cmp2020 ·
$0.44
This is an interesting experiment.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@ats-david · (edited)
$0.45
I just want to say thank you for highlighting one of my criticisms of creating a separate rewards pool for comments. I hope people take notice of this.

And I agree that the *Trending* page is using bad metrics for "popularity" and probably shouldn't be what's displayed on the Steemit landing/home page. They need a better alternative.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@igster ·
$18.86
So trending currently is using total pending rewards to arrange posts. I'd like to hear what could be better alternatives? Reddit uses upvotes just on the post itself and currently steemit is using upvotes on post and the comments.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ats-david ·
$18.86
The home page shouldn't just be a page for displaying the "top trending" posts. For example: A post like this does nothing to attract readers or entice them to sign up. Rather than simply displaying "trending" posts, perhaps they should have a variety of posts from different categories to display...oh, wait...Steemit doesn't even have categories.  They have a list of random tags that people use.

The UI is awful. It's not surprising that the face of Steemit.com isn't attractive.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cmp2020 ·
$0.37
Wow, it's third on the trending list, this is definitely a bug.
👍  
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@thisisbenbrick ·
$0.38
Free SP all round.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@dreemit ·
$0.37
Hi @transisto :) This is actually a super ironic post since I came to your page to ask you a question that relates with this topic. I noticed that you downvoted @stellabelle's post about introductions, and I was wondering why? She assumes it's because the post itself is not what one might consider HQ. (And she seemed to understand and not mind) However the level of engagement it inspired in the comment section suggests it made up in essence what it lacked in substance.  
I was just curious.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@transisto · (edited)
$18.86
I was a bit disturbed when I saw the picture and decided that it shouldn't be on the front page.  Then found out it's only there because of the comment's reward. Ironic indeed.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@kingscrown ·
$0.42
worked - you got to trending already!
http://i.imgur.com/HQ5kvlh.png
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@papa-pepper ·
$0.37
Good test, in my opinion.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@sykochica ·
$0.35
Even though only semi helpful, you can still view the [active](https://steemit.com/active) feed even though it no longer has a button on the UI itself. This shows the newest posts that have been posted, edited or commented on. 

I will be quite curious what the trending page will look like should the single 7 day payout takes effect. While I'm not making any argument over whether this would be a good or bad change overall. (Admittedly it'd be helpful for our podcast since posts we mention from the last week would all have active payouts.)

However I'm curious how the trending page 'rotation' will be effected by this. I'm sure there will be schools of thought on both sides of liking it showing the whole weeks highest paid posts even versus those that will dislike having the same ones being shown for that long (since most payouts happen in the first day, if not the first handful of hours.)

Anyhoo, I'm sure something desired will be thought of. Only thing I could even think of (which I'm sure others have mentioned before) would be to pull a small number of posts from hot category tags to display, perhaps even randomizing every x amount of time from the top 5 of each top tag. Have some of steem, life, photography, story, introduceyourself (these are arbitrary tag choices.)

I'd suspect this would be a difficult thing to implement though.

Anyway..just thinking out loud at this point. At least I now know why I was seeing the trending page not being ordered by post payout lately (even though this won't be the case soon as I saw smooth mention in a comment.)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@the-future ·
$18.21
So, are you going to be on trending page if you upvote all the comments?
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@the-future ·
$0.37
This is insane! You just discovered a gold mine! I don't remember if you are a witness or if I upvoted you as a witness, but I will check it right now! Cheers.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@noisy ·
$18.21
It seems that sometimes the best way to move forward is to show how bad current system is, and how easily can be broken :)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@shaka · (edited)
$18.26
I don´t consider it a flaw but a compelling incentive for commercial content creators (companies, advertizers, etc.) to buy SP. Imagine this post would be the corporate blog from Coca-Cola. At this stage they would only need to buy 100k worth of SP to have guaranteed exposure on trending. I personally would consider this a much healthier way  to get advertizers on board as opposed to third-party ad placements that are ruining the web experience of millions.
There should be a second trending tab that exludes comment rewards from the ranking though. The possibility to opt-out from seeing such self-voted posts would ensure, that advertizers really try to appeal with their content.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (12)
@josephd · (edited)
$0.41
many people would leave steemit if there were a bunch of advertisements and nothing else on trending, I know I would leave for sure
👍  
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vote details (1)
@shaka ·
$0.04
As said
>There should be a second trending tab that exludes comment rewards from the ranking though.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ender · (edited)
$0.50
This is a much better incentive for the cokes of the world than promoted! We should get rid of promoted. We need more steem dollar supply we don't want to keep burning them. Does anyone even go to promoted? I would redesign promoted to allow you to add money to the post payout( split in the normal way with curators) but not burn sbd! 

Thanks for your vote on my sbd post by the way.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@shaka ·
$0.11
Your welcome. I have to thank you for taking the time to dig out my month-old comment here :) Cheers!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@timsaid ·
$18.21
Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention
👍  
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vote details (1)
@rossenpavlov ·
$18.21
https://s9.postimg.org/m34cyupzz/1jwixx.gif
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@tibonova ·
$17.61
1. Upvoting every comments to make your post trending (benefits).
2. Upvoting every post that others may upvote not because it's good but – any direct or non-direct agreement on mass upvoting is enough – to make money by curation rewards (benefits). 
3. Upvoting our accounts' posts & comments to make author rewards (benefits).

If we consider #1 flawed, then #2 and #3 are flawed, too. (The reverse of this is also true.)

The devs wanted to change `Trending` to similar as `Hot` when I was reading last about it. (I was away for a week so I don't know what's the situation now. A week is a lot of time in this industry, I have to catch up.)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@thecryptofiend · (edited)
$17.58
It's confusing. Actually come to think of it may be useful to have a separate post and comment trending - maybe call the comment version something else?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@grey580 ·
I'm here just for the comments.
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@roadscape ·
$0.71
1) It's not a bug, it's a feature -- otherwise there would be no way to identify posts like this with high comment payouts
2) Your voting pattern in this post seems abusive
3) After HF17 (with the change to 7-day payouts), the Trending algorithm changes and will not take into account child comment payouts. There will be a separate ranking that shows top-level posts and children alongside each other.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@teamsteem ·
Very interesting.
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@stellabelle ·
I'm testing to see how much my downvote of your post reduces your rewards. Just a test though.
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@teamsteem ·
$17.58
Well that spark interesting discussion. I too was a bit reticent when I first saw that new algorithm but I now think we should give it its chance. Thanks for bring your point like you did.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@steemgold ·
I just want to ask, is there something wrong with my post, so you do not like it, beg an explanation, so that in the future I could correct existing deficiencies,sorry to disturb your time
thank you @transisto
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@transisto ·
No, it's just that is was upvoted by @blocktrades and I will oppose everything upvoted by this account for the foreseeable future.
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@steemgold ·
why is that, whether it was a provision
thanks for the explanation @transisto
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@lastminuteman ·
Can you explain why did you flag my post ?
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@transisto · (edited)
One of the reason is because it was upvoted by @blocktrades and I'm opposing everything upvoted by this account by default for the foreseeable future.
BTW My downvote is minimal compared to his upvote.

I also generally prefer timely content.
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@lastminuteman ·
Ok I can understand you started a war against blocktrades. But this is not hurting blocktrades, only the author, who has probably never get such a potential payout. There is the great limit to your actions. 
And between, what do you mean by timely content ?
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@claudiop63 ·
I think the "Promoted" section should be revamped and optimized. The "promoted" page should be the default landing page after logging in.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@lynx ·
@transisto please share in what cryptocurrencies you invested?

P.S it's very interesting to know where smart people invest.
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@transisto ·
Why are you asking me here specifically ?
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@lynx ·
I don't know what would be better way to ask, i hope that steemit implement private messages in future.
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@writemore ·
nice post
if you care for your kids please please see my post (the video is a must see )
https://steemit.com/life/@writemore/abduction-what-can-we-do-to-stop-it-a-must-read-for-all-parents
👎  
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vote details (1)
@cryptohustlin ·
I didnt know it worked like that. Interesting.
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@transisto ·
it doesn't work like that anymore.
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@cryptohustlin ·
ahh. well thats good, harder to manipulate now.
I just wanted to thank you for your upvote also :] in a few days im going to be able to start advertising steemit on coinmarket cap thanks in (a big)part to your upvote :] once i get the sbd payout ofc.
im on to round 9 now.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@cryptohustlin/steemit-advertising-campaign-part-9
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