RE: Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient by tuck-fheman

Viewing a response to: @jl777/why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit

upvoting · @tuck-fheman · Jul 23 '16

$0.07

I upvoted, but I don't see the issue you are describing playing out that often. The whales upvote what they like. There are times when another whale post something other whales like. 

Creating a rule preventing someone (a whale) from voting how they wish is not something I can get behind. If it is a real issue that actually exist and actually causes a problem, I think the whales here at Steem will handle that manually themselves just fine.

From what I've seen here, especially on Slack, the whales discuss issues like this and a solution is agreed upon and then it just happens naturally without some hardcoded rule being put into place. I think the same thing will happen in this instance without forcing people to vote a certain way.

👍 jl777, by24seven, perky, dka, chess, celebrities, lotto

`post_id`	217,540
`author`	tuck-fheman
`permlink`	re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t163132749z
`category`	upvoting
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["upvoting"]}"
`created`	2016-07-23 16:31:33
`last_update`	2016-07-23 16:31:33
`depth`	1
`children`	6
`net_rshares`	64,006,242,910
`last_payout`	2016-08-25 12:00:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.068 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	741
`author_reputation`	326,086,885,911,893
`root_title`	"Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (7)

voter	rshares	pct
perky	7,674,743,410	100%
by24seven	7,789,299,560	100%
dka	2,657,596,657	100%
jl777	45,691,455,353	100%
chess	64,818,633	100%
lotto	63,521,680	100%
celebrities	64,807,617	100%

@jl777 · Jul 23 '16

$0.05

If it isnt an issue in reality, then what is the downside for doing it? It will have tremendous positive PR effects.
Also whales are not prevented from upvoting anyone, the system would just reduce the power. This is already being done based on how many minutes from the initial post, how many others have upvoted, so its not like we are not already tweaking the voting power

There is a real issue of envy. Maybe as a whale you prefer not to see this, but yet it is there. Ask the people who started and then stopped posting on steemit. I imagine the majority will say the unfair payouts. [Yes, I know steemit still pays out more than any other blogging site, but people are strange sometimes]

So, if steemit can say that the entire system is biased so the upvoting flows downstream, this will go a long way toward reducing the envy factor

👍 jl777, occult, marketing, eur

`post_id`	217,664
`author`	jl777
`permlink`	re-tuck-fheman-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t163919065z
`category`	upvoting
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["upvoting"]}"
`created`	2016-07-23 16:39:18
`last_update`	2016-07-23 16:39:18
`depth`	2
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	45,859,519,655
`last_payout`	2016-08-25 12:00:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.050 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	841
`author_reputation`	14,981,508,863,374
`root_title`	"Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (4)

voter	rshares	pct
jl777	45,691,455,353	100%
eur	42,350,465	100%
occult	63,513,822	100%
marketing	62,200,015	100%

@jl777 · Jul 23 '16

$0.05

Even though it isnt happening, the rumors are spreading that steemit is a whale on whale upvote-fest. Also, the fact that slack has been closed to new members for weeks does not help the closed circle impression that really does exist outside the steemit community. I am sorry to bring the bad news that steemit isnt 100% perfect, but the first step to solving a problem is to admit that it exists.

👍 jl777, headlines, btcd, medicine

`post_id`	217,692
`author`	jl777
`permlink`	re-tuck-fheman-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t164112509z
`category`	upvoting
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["upvoting"]}"
`created`	2016-07-23 16:41:12
`last_update`	2016-07-23 16:41:12
`depth`	2
`children`	4
`net_rshares`	45,883,793,039
`last_payout`	2016-08-25 12:00:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.050 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	398
`author_reputation`	14,981,508,863,374
`root_title`	"Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (4)

voter	rshares	pct
jl777	45,693,238,375	100%
btcd	63,537,416	100%
headlines	64,815,301	100%
medicine	62,201,947	100%

@smooth · Jul 23 '16 (edited)

> the rumors are spreading that steemit is a whale on whale upvote-fest

Obviously you can't always rationally explain rumors but where is the evidence of this? I don't even see most whales posting at all, much less posting and getting undeserved votes from other whales. I do post comments pretty often and it is exceedingly rare they ever get votes from other whales.

👍 lotto, ecology, eur

`post_id`	220,955
`author`	smooth
`permlink`	re-jl777-re-tuck-fheman-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t201525500z
`category`	upvoting
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["upvoting"]}"
`created`	2016-07-23 20:15:27
`last_update`	2016-07-23 20:15:36
`depth`	3
`children`	3
`net_rshares`	171,097,091
`last_payout`	2016-08-25 12:00:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	369
`author_reputation`	119,002,354,889,508
`root_title`	"Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
eur	41,486,169	100%
lotto	64,818,041	100%
ecology	64,792,881	100%

@jl777 · Jul 23 '16

there is no evidence of this at all, in fact I think a bigger issue is that most whales are relatively inactive, which is an issue that can hopefully be solved too.

The fact that there is no evidence against it is probably not good enough. Maybe if evidence to prove it isnt happening was made, that could help, but given the envy factor I think anything short of a proactive charity type of policy encoded in the algorithms, outsiders will just make stuff up to convince themselves steemit cant be real.

If you just go to places outside of steemit island you will hear people see the envy factor expressed as "unfair payouts" is the primary (only?) negative.

👍 pax, nzd, family

`post_id`	221,108
`author`	jl777
`permlink`	re-smooth-re-jl777-re-tuck-fheman-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160723t202436586z
`category`	upvoting
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["upvoting"]}"
`created`	2016-07-23 20:24:36
`last_update`	2016-07-23 20:24:36
`depth`	4
`children`	1
`net_rshares`	167,669,541
`last_payout`	2016-08-25 12:00:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	661
`author_reputation`	14,981,508,863,374
`root_title`	"Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (3)

voter	rshares	pct
pax	64,830,698	100%
nzd	59,636,055	100%
family	43,202,788	100%

1 reply

@jl777 · Jul 24 '16

some preliminary stats have some interesting data, but I need some info on key block heights, will PM

properties (22)

`post_id`	228,244
`author`	jl777
`permlink`	re-smooth-re-jl777-re-tuck-fheman-re-jl777-why-whales-are-needed-and-a-proposal-to-insure-the-massive-success-of-steemit-20160724t064715232z
`category`	upvoting
`json_metadata`	"{"tags": ["upvoting"]}"
`created`	2016-07-24 06:47:15
`last_update`	2016-07-24 06:47:15
`depth`	4
`children`	0
`net_rshares`	0
`last_payout`	2016-08-25 12:00:39
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 SBD
`promoted`	0.000 SBD
`body_length`	101
`author_reputation`	14,981,508,863,374
`root_title`	"Why whales are needed - and a proposal to insure the massive success of steemit, ie Subtractive Upvoting Gradient"
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 SBD
`percent_steem_dollars`	10,000